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Better Birds-in-flight shots (1 Viewer)

ianp234

Active member
I`m using a D7200 with the 300mmPF and TC 14E111,and having a lot of difficulty getting sharp shots with all but the most leisurely flyers.
Herons OK; gulls, rather hit and miss; anything faster/smaller; pretty poor, unless a fair distance away
The autofocus struggles to lock on too often for my liking and even when it does, the results aren`t that sharp.
I appreciate that the TC slows things down a bit, and may affect image quality, but I had expected rather better results with this setup than I`ve been getting.
The combination works fine for static birds and I chose it partly because it is lightweight and easy to walk about with.
I should add that I have a Sigma 150-600mm Sport lens which is fast focusing and sharp, but not much good as a walk around lens.
I`ve been wondering if I might have more success with the Sigma or Tamron 100-400,which wouldn`t need a TC, and which both seem to get decent reviews?
As ever, it`s not easy to find anywhere nearby where I could try these out.
Any advice or suggestions appreciated!
 
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I use AF-C with 3D tracking and lock the focus point to the center. That's the most sensitive spot. You're at f/5.6 with the 300 f/4 + 1.4TC, which is the maximum for 3D tracking to work (at least on my d500). I also turn on face recognition w/ 3D tracking, I think it helps lock on to eyes, even bird eyes. You might want to adjust the tracking lockon depending if they are smooth flyers or jerk around more. I set AF-C to focus + release priority, though some people use only release priority (there's a skill set to doing that to avoid lots of blurry pictures).

For 600mm with a DX crop (say 800-900mm equivalent), I try to use at least 1/800th a second (prefer 1/1000th or better) with VR and at least f/8 (prefer f/11). That might push your ISO up pretty high, especially for the 7200. If you are trying to shoot at f/5.6 at 420mm (actual), you're not going to be too happy. Using DoF calculator (http://www.dofmaster.com/dofjs.html), 420mm at f/5.6 at 100 feet is +/- 1.9ft with a 0.02mm circle of confusion. If you are then cropping down, you don't have much leeway. f/8 - f/9 adds almost +/- 1 ft to that. I'm also not sure of the 300's + 1.4 TC sharpness even on static targets wide-open.

The 7200 is pretty old, as AF systems go, so I'm not sure how well it works with 3D tracking at f/5.6. You should check your manual about that. I think the 7500 has an AF system closer to the d500.

I use the tamron 150-600 g2. I don't find it too heavy, I can walk around with it pretty easily on a Black Rapids shoulder sling, though I do also use a monopod with it so I'm not holding it up all the time.
 
Lots of interesting ideas there. I`ve never used 3d tracking to any extent, although it does function on my camera. I must give it a proper workout and see how it goes. Not sure that the D7200 does face recognition. I`ll have to check that out.
Unfortunately, the season for the most interesting birds-in-flight opportunities around here (waders and wildfowl) is also the season of lowest light levels i.e.autumn and winter. Nothing we can do about that though!
I think the Sigma S is a fair bit heavier than the Tamron, so not so comfortable to walk longer distances with nor so controllable handheld for panning/tracking. Plus, I`m not as young as I used to be!
Thanks
 
I`m using a D7200 with the 300mmPF and TC 14E111,and having a lot of difficulty getting sharp shots with all but the most leisurely flyers.
Herons OK; gulls, rather hit and miss; anything faster/smaller; pretty poor, unless a fair distance away
The autofocus struggles to lock on too often for my liking and even when it does, the results aren`t that sharp.
Are you turning the VR off?
Quite a few people recommend your combination for BIF at dpreview. 3D should work with this teleconverter.
F/5.6 should not be an issue. Stepping down might even improve the AF speed.
For birds faster/smaller than gulls BIF isn't too easy with any camera... I've made the experience that it helps to invest a week practicing with migrating swallows. ;)
 
Yes, I`ve been turning off VR, though I`m not sure I`ve noticed any difference.
What do you mean when you say "stepping down might improve the AF speed"? Do you mean opening up the aperture?
I`m sure a week practicing with swallows might help - or maybe encourage me to take up still life photography instead :). I better get a move on if I want to do that, before they all depart!
 
Are you using any kind of support or just handholding the camera.I used a d7200 with the nikon 200-500 lens and a good monopod and found that i could get decent flight shots of certain birds,ie gulls,geese etc.
Birds in flight were not something that interested me much but i had a go and found out that a LOT of practice was needed to gain good results.The 200-500 lens also has a seperate vr control that helps when taking such shots but it is a big lens.As you said,a tc won't help at all in this situation and a lens like sigma's 100-400 is a good bet.I have used this lens also and it provided great iq and good focusing speeds.......worth a go and it will be far better than the set up you are using at the moment.
 
I`m handholding the camera with this lens, which I like for its portability, when I am moving from place to place, e.g. walking along the coast. I have a bigger/longer lens(see above) for use when I am staying in one place, mainly for non-flight shots, which I use with a tripod or beanbag.
I am seriously tempted to try the Sigma 100-400 or perhaps the Tamron. I have a few Sigma lenses already which I really like.
 
The 300 f/4p has 3 VR modes: off, normal, and sport. Sport is meant for panning, like with BIF or players on a field. Normal is holding steady. You should be using Sport. The Tamron has a similar thing, and I bet the Sigma does as well.
 
Hi,
I was in a similar position and ended up upgrading from the D7100 with Nikkor 80-400mm to the D500 with the 300mm PF lens TC 14EIII combo. I really enjoy the latter - the AF in the D500 is superb - I use group AF mode - VR set to sport or OFF - shutter of ≈ 1/1000 sec.
HTH.
;)
 
You can rent a d7500 for $75/wk or a d500 for $119/wk from borrowlenses. You might want to try that to see if the upgraded AF system makes a difference for you, if none of the other suggestions help.

I found the d500 AF was much better at action than the d750, and I now have the d850 that is really amazing. The d500 and d850 will be an ergonomics challenge, as they use Nikon's archaic settings banks (like their pro gear) instead of the memory recall U1 - U2 system of the mid-level cameras. A site like kenrockwell usually goes over all the settings in detail and he sometimes has a .bin settings file you can try importaing and changing from there.
 
While i loved the Sigma 100-400 i dont think it will help as its slower than your 300 and converter.

What shutter speeds are you using, have you run your raw files through something like Nikon's free view nx to check where the focus point is.
 
I`m handholding the camera with this lens, which I like for its portability, when I am moving from place to place, e.g. walking along the coast. I have a bigger/longer lens(see above) for use when I am staying in one place, mainly for non-flight shots, which I use with a tripod or beanbag.
I am seriously tempted to try the Sigma 100-400 or perhaps the Tamron. I have a few Sigma lenses already which I really like.

Before you buy anymore lenses i would try using a monopod to help.Even a cheap one will suffice to practice with.......a monopod takes a lot of unwanted camera movement away and helps you pan much more smoothly.Keep the ball unlocked so you still have full movement of the camera and just hold it as you would if handholding.You will find it is still easy to keep the bird in the frame but you will have eliminated any virtical movement as the camera is still resting on a support.......i guarentee you will find it easier to get decent in flight shots and it's juch cheaper than getting another lens.
 
I`m handholding the camera with this lens, which I like for its portability, when I am moving from place to place, e.g. walking along the coast. I have a bigger/longer lens(see above) for use when I am staying in one place, mainly for non-flight shots, which I use with a tripod or beanbag.
I am seriously tempted to try the Sigma 100-400 or perhaps the Tamron. I have a few Sigma lenses already which I really like.

Sigma & Tamron don't have any faster AF. Usually they are a bit slower.
VR might also be a bit weaker.

D7200 only have 15 cross type sensors, so try keep things in the middle.
The middle 3 vertical rows are cross type.

What shutter speeds are you using? 1/500 or even 1/2000 might be needed to freeze any fast action. Higher shutter speed when subjects are closer.

Have you done AF-fine-tune with the 300m and the 1.4xTC? You might have a front or back focus issue. Check on a ruler positioned 45 degrees to the camera with camera on tripod.

Did you try stopping down a bit to f/8? Just to get some more DOF on short distances, and also the lens + TC will be slightly sharper stopped down.
 
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Marc: Using sport VR setting makes sense. I`ll give it a try. I haven`t really used it before. Good idea re renting a camera (although I can`t afford to upgrade at the moment). It might at least let me see to what extent the problem lies with the gear I have vs the settings or technique I`m using.

Pasquier: Yes, I know the D500 has an excellent reputation, but see my reply to Marc above.

Mike: I try to use shutter speeds of 1/1000 upwards, according to conditions.
I will certainly give View NX a try to check focus. Something I never considered before.

Neil: I have a monopod, which I rarely use, certainly not for this purpose. I really must give it a workout. After all, it won`t compromise my mobility much and will cost me nothing.

Vespobuteo: I did do an AF fine tune before, but will look at it again, particularly with the TC attached.
I try to set the camera to 1/1000 @f8 as a starting point, and adjust from there according to the light and the speed of the birds I am trying to capture.

Hermitibis: Amazing how a single vowel can change the meaning of a sentence!
 
I`m really grateful to you all for the great tips and suggestions you`ve offered, especially as they are based on practical experience.
My plan now is to work through the ideas systematically over a period of time. As some have suggested, changing lenses is perhaps not the answer.
I`ll update the thread later, when I feel I`ve made some progress ( and maybe post a few pics!)

Thank you all,

Ian
 
I'd second the recommendation for a monopod. I use it almost all the time w/ the Tamron 150-600. I just leave it on the lens foot along w/ my Black Rapids shoulder strap. That way, I can just flip the thing over and be on the monopod. It also gives me a nice bottom handle if I'm handholding. it really does reduce a lot of blur.

I'd also second the recommendation to do the AF fine tune. I'm not sure if the 7100 has the automatic way of doing it that the d500/d850 does, but it's worth trying with the TC on.

BIF is definitely a skill and takes practice and technique. Good luck!
 
@ianp234 - I have exactly the same combination as you, and haven't experienced any significant issues with BIF, other than those arising from my own inexperience. A few points arising from the discussion:

1. I always use VR Sport setting for BIF, and find it gives good results

2. I don't think the TC1.4 is responsible for any perceptible loss of performance (other than the loss of one f-stop!) - I started with the 300mm PF then added the TC after about a year, and apart from the greater reach didn't notice any difference

3. I don't think this combo requires a monopod - in fact the raison d'etre of the PF lens is surely to have something you can easily carry round - but I do use a Peak Design sling, giving a more comfortable carrying position, and ensuring I'm not fatigued when I come to use it

4. I've tried various options for numbers of focus points, and find personally a relatively low number of central points to give better results, although this is of course dependent on getting them over the bird...generally opinion seems divided on this one

5. You know this already, but I always use <1/1000th sec shutter speed, usually 1/2000th for BIF - usually in manual mode at f5.6 and auto ISO

One additional thing which I apologise if its too obvious to mention, is making sure that the focus range is set to infinity-3m - if I have it set to 'full' for insects / plants then forget to change it really seems to make a difference when trying to lock onto BIF.

I'm more than happy with my D7200, and not feeling like rushing out and buying a D500, although by all accounts this would deliver some improvement in AF performance. Personally I'd rather save my money for the 500mm PF!
 
Good to get a variety of input on this, as well as some consensus on several points.
As I mentioned previously, I plan to give the various suggestions a decent workout, and hopefully discover what works best for me.
KB57: I`m interested to read your thoughts as a fellow user of "my" kit.
I too use a carry strap - a Black Rapid in my case. It allows the camera to hang securely, with no chance of slipping off, when I`m using binoculars. It also makes it easy to quickly raise the camera to the shooting position.
 
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