timwootton
Well-known member
Good plan.
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Ed's thread (5 Viewers)
- Thread starter Strandman
- Start date
buzzard12
Well-known member
Think you may be pleasantly surprised when the bird is blocked in...as Tim mentions, until it is added there is no way of judging it.
Hurry on old chap!
Strandman
Well-known member
Think you may be pleasantly surprised when the bird is blocked in...as Tim mentions, until it is added there is no way of judging it.
Hurry on old chap!
Well since you asked- I've hurried on and stuck in the bird minus fish beak and weed, but still not sure what I will have to do with the middle-distance water. Might have to make the darks darker, as the bird shouldn't be the darkest thing in the piece and the neck is too prominent a block of uninterrupted dark. But next step is to see if it makes it makes a difference when the long strip of wavy weed is placed over the neck- tempting in the best traditions of the forum to have another drink and crack on, but I shall let things rest here and reflect.
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buzzard12
Well-known member
Water can be a nightmare. I find I tend to lose it on water when I overwork it, in fact I have come to the conclusion that the quicker I do it the more alive it looks.
Had a good look at the merganser and decided the lighter water in front of the birds breast does not quite work for me, the strokes perhaps little to horizontal and flat maybe? . Think the foreground needs a bolder treatment too. Be careful with too much dark though, not always bad to let the darks on the bird stand out and add a sculptural element, and this is for me a bird all about shape and bold markings. The weed over the body strikes be as a fine idea and should held pull the bird down into the water.Coming along fine Ed, even if I suspect it may fight you along the way!
Strandman
Well-known member
You are quite right on all counts- time to give up and either write it off as a training exercise, or to be bold...so I've stuck in the fish and weed in the current not- so-bold style just to get to the end- then may take the big stick to it (or gently cast it aside and move on) over the weekend.
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timwootton
Well-known member
I think you've hit the perpetual birder/artist conundrum here Ed. How to make a piece of art which recreates exactly what you recall in the field (why else would we make such a painting?), yet still satisfies all we desire from the process of creating a picture.
Just the one word of (vodka induced) advice - try your very best not to fall between two stools. Sometimes (almost always) we have to make decisions of compromise; if all you want to do is record the event visually, you have already done it briliantly with the drawings and prelims, but if you want to make a piece of art based on the experience of seeing, then don't get too hung up on having the water just right, or the fish just right.
I do find this a tad strange offering this snippet to you, who so consistently pushes the barriers, seemingly as effortlessly as Nick does - but for some reason I think you're getting snared a bit by something in this painting.
Maybe the point is that you've already said all you need to with the drawings?
Perhaps a more considered piece would benefit from the application of a little breathing space?
Or you may just be on the verge of making an almightily good painting right now.
I love what you've done with this idea and look forward to where you take it.
Just the one word of (vodka induced) advice - try your very best not to fall between two stools. Sometimes (almost always) we have to make decisions of compromise; if all you want to do is record the event visually, you have already done it briliantly with the drawings and prelims, but if you want to make a piece of art based on the experience of seeing, then don't get too hung up on having the water just right, or the fish just right.
I do find this a tad strange offering this snippet to you, who so consistently pushes the barriers, seemingly as effortlessly as Nick does - but for some reason I think you're getting snared a bit by something in this painting.
Maybe the point is that you've already said all you need to with the drawings?
Perhaps a more considered piece would benefit from the application of a little breathing space?
Or you may just be on the verge of making an almightily good painting right now.
I love what you've done with this idea and look forward to where you take it.
Woody
Well-known member
There have definitely been paintings I've done where I've reached a point that I don't feel I should go on but I don't quite think it's finished. Mostly this has happened to me when I've gone through one of those periods that have been influenced by all you guys on here who seem able to 'let go' and whack paint about with seeming abandon to get a fabulously loose and bold result. I've tried to get similar results and enjoyed the process enourmously but I personally feel that the results have been lacking something and it seems to me that they've possibly ended up doing precisely what Tim warns against; Falling between two stools. The painting has gone too far into detail to retain the bold freshness that I'm looking for but not far enough that I'm happy with it.
Could it be that's what's happening here? You feel there's something not quite right and are trying to correct that by soldiering on, but in reality you should have stopped earlier not later?
It's just an idea and it's a personal thing. I like this painting loads as it is! The bird looks mildly surprised to have salad with the fish course which I think tells a little story really well.
Just as an aside, one of my paintings that I felt had gone awry proved enourmously popular and actually sold the first time it went on display, much to my surprise, so we can't always clearly see ourselves quite what we've achieved.
Whatever you decide I'm sure it'll be the right thing.
Mike
Could it be that's what's happening here? You feel there's something not quite right and are trying to correct that by soldiering on, but in reality you should have stopped earlier not later?
It's just an idea and it's a personal thing. I like this painting loads as it is! The bird looks mildly surprised to have salad with the fish course which I think tells a little story really well.
Just as an aside, one of my paintings that I felt had gone awry proved enourmously popular and actually sold the first time it went on display, much to my surprise, so we can't always clearly see ourselves quite what we've achieved.
Whatever you decide I'm sure it'll be the right thing.
Mike
nickderry
C'est pas ma faute, je suis anglais.
It's a successful piece but in a different way to perhaps what you expected. As Tim said, maybe you said everything that you needed to say about it in the prelim sketch - to me that sketch IS a finished, accomplished piece of art. That this painting doesn't do the same as that sketch doesn't detract from it at all. The sketch is a bold exploration of pattern, bordering on abstraction. The painting is much easier on the eye, it retains a lot of the sketch in it, it's full of life and rich in tones, to me it shows what is happening in the scene - there is a superb feel in the merg's eye. So, in short (because I should never be allowed to write long speeches when I've just got up) you have two splendid pieces of art here, both of the same scene, but different approaches, and perhaps you're having trouble deciding which one is THE one - when really IMO, they're BOTH part of your response to what you saw and equally valid.
timwootton
Well-known member
Just about sums up what I was trying to get at.
Strandman
Well-known member
Or in this case one might say "neither fish nor fowl"
I'm touched by these supportive responses, chaps. Rather than let matters rest, I've given it a working-over for an hour this morning to see if I can reinvigorate it and there's actualy some bits I quite like now, so that's heartening. Now it is time to put it to one side- maybe after some gentle ministrations from Mr Black and Mr Decker.
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timwootton
Well-known member
Once again, Nick saves me the trouble of having to think.
Strandman
Well-known member
Heyho-at home on domestic duties today so after heroically performing the school run promised myself one more shot at some painty ripples, as punishment for the Hoodie farago. So nipped down to my local ripple tank for inspiration, where bizarrely Shag and two Black Swans in the same field of view. Resisted the tempatation to do a daft sketch of them and have got to stage one as attached, before losing the will to live, plapping on more paint and sawing the bottom half off . So the top half survives and all being well will cop some Wigeon. One has gone in as a tester and hopefully there will be more clambering about in the mud.
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timwootton
Well-known member
Somebody ought to take that b100dy chainsaw off you!
Yes, the wigeon pic looks great and will be another corker - but the first effort looks, to me, to have bags of potential. Ah well, it can't be said that you do things by halves (er, actually - that's exactly what usually happens though, isn't it?).
I wish I could chuck such wonderful stuff on the woodpile.
Yes, the wigeon pic looks great and will be another corker - but the first effort looks, to me, to have bags of potential. Ah well, it can't be said that you do things by halves (er, actually - that's exactly what usually happens though, isn't it?).
I wish I could chuck such wonderful stuff on the woodpile.
timwootton
Well-known member
Ok, I admit it- you were right! I love how the females keep emerging from the weed - I've counted them three times and got a different answer each one!
Brill!
Brill!
buzzard12
Well-known member
Touche with an accent?
Really fantastic work this, of the highest caliber Ed. Can't praise it enough, the whole thing just works perfectly on every level.
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