White Pelicans? (in Turkey) (1 Viewer)

sgokce · May 23, 2011

Hi everyone,
I was walking around today. I saw a bird group like a cloud. They were very very away from me. I pushed my small camera's limits by using optic zoom + digital zoom to identify them. So the photo qualities are very very bad.

They seemed white-black coloured from the long range. But they weren't flying like storks. Because they were turning right or left as a group suddenly. They weren't hovering either. The group members were also very close to eachother. The flying behaviours seemed different from storks to me.

I know the pics are terrible. But maybe somebody can identify them by the informations i give? Are they White Pelicans or Storks? Thank u for your help in advance...

chris butterworth · May 23, 2011

I wouldn't put money on it, but the birds in the second, third and fourth photos appear to have the right 'jizz' for White Pelican.

Chris

Stuart Darbyshire · May 23, 2011

In 1, 3 and 4 they look more like Flamingo to me - just 2 and 5 look very white?

lou salomon · May 23, 2011

yes, definitely white pelicans!

BuckeyeAZ · May 23, 2011

Not definitely anything. But I do sense more white pelican than white stork or greater flamingo.

Steve Dudley · May 23, 2011

lou salomon said:
yes, definitely white pelicans!

Definitely White Pelicans for me too. I was watching similar flocks over N Greece a week or so ago. Shot 3 is enough on its own, but collectively they add up to nothing else.

sgokce · May 23, 2011

Additional two terrible pics

By the way, the bird group sometimes turn left or right like a group of Starlings. I don't think Flamingoos would fly like that.

njlarsen · May 23, 2011

So how is Dalmatian Pelican excluded for those who say definitely?

Niels

BuckeyeAZ · May 23, 2011

njlarsen said:
So how is Dalmatian Pelican excluded for those who say definitely?

By the black in the wing pattern.
More importantly, how is white stork excluded by those who say 'definitely'?

lou salomon · May 23, 2011

buckeye, white storks don't cirlce so close together and not in formation (i.e. not looking all into the same direction). in this case i'm absolutely sure, just came back from a trip to the danube delta (like every year) where i saw 1000+ ind.
nils, of course there might be a few dalmatians in that flock but the huge mass definitely are pelecanus onocrotalus (white stork wing pattern, 3rd pic).such a large flock of dalmatian's would be a sensation either.

best,

njlarsen · May 23, 2011

Thanks
Niels

BuckeyeAZ · May 23, 2011

lou salomon said:
buckeye, white storks don't cirlce so close together and not in formation (i.e. not looking all into the same direction).

I know. Well, I know that white storks don't soar, or flap, in formation - though they certainly do circle as close together as these are. But... no-one said the birds in pic 3 are circling. (Whether they are circling or not, I still think these are probably white pelicans - but I think it unwise to say 'definitely'.)

Steve Dudley · May 23, 2011

You can tell that that they are circling by the different photos showing upper and under shots.

If you can rule out Dalmatian on wing pattern. You can rule out White Stork on shape (and like Lou, on flock shape/formation). What else are they? I'm with Lou - definitely White Pelicans - and like Lou I too was watching hundreds in similar circling flocks only two weeks ago.

deboo · May 23, 2011

BuckeyeAZ said:
By the black in the wing pattern.
More importantly, how is white stork excluded by those who say 'definitely'?

In my limited experience, I saw funnels of White Stork like this from PODA in Bulgaria. My first reaction was....Oooh Pelicans. But after being allowed to scope the funnel, I agreed with the residents/experts. Storks for me I reckon.

dave...

BuckeyeAZ · May 23, 2011

Steve Dudley said:
You can tell that that they are circling by the different photos showing upper and under shots.

...but only because (as it turns out, if you check the EXIF data) all the photos were taken within a 40-sec period; otherwise there would be no proof that the birds in pic no. 3 are circling. Behaviour thus indicates that they are white pelicans.

Steve Dudley said:
You can rule out White Stork on shape

No, you can't. Such shape as is discernible (which is in pic no. 3 only) fits white stork as well as it fits white pelican.

sgokce · May 24, 2011

Thank u very much to u all...

François Doyen · May 24, 2011

Definitely white pelican for me too.

FD

Steve Dudley · May 24, 2011

BuckeyeAZ said:
...but only because (as it turns out, if you check the EXIF data) all the photos were taken within a 40-sec period; otherwise there would be no proof that the birds in pic no. 3 are circling. Behaviour thus indicates that they are white pelicans.

the proof is in that this is a series of images showing both uppers and unders - they're circling. You don't need meta data to tell you this.

BuckeyeAZ said:
No, you can't. Such shape as is discernible (which is in pic no. 3 only) fits white stork as well as it fits white pelican.

Sorry, I disagree - its discernible to me (and seemingly others). You disagree cos you cant see it yourself.

Tib78 · May 24, 2011

sgokce said:
But they weren't flying like storks. Because they were turning right or left as a group suddenly. They weren't hovering either. The group members were also very close to eachother. The flying behaviours seemed different from storks to me.

According to the observer, the birds are circling and they are not storks. We shouldn't forget to give credit to the observer's description sometimes...

On a side note, I'd just add that I have never seen a flock of White storks circling "in unison" like Pelicans, but Abdim's storks flocks behave exactly like a flock of pelicans when rising on thermals, changing direction at the same time, etc...

P.S: White pelicans for me too

BuckeyeAZ · May 24, 2011

Steve Dudley said:
the proof is in that this is a series of images showing both uppers and unders - they're circling. You don't need meta data to tell you this.

Pic no. 3 is the only one in which birds are identifiable, and in that pic they could be flying in a straight line unless you know what's happening immedately before and after that photo was taken.

Steve Dudley said:
Sorry, I disagree - its discernible to me (and seemingly others).

Sorry, I disagree (we could go on like this indefinitely). I accept that you believe it's discernible to you. The 'seemingly others' is your interpretation of things that people haven't said.

Steve Dudley said:
You disagree cos you cant see it yourself.

I disagree because I believe you to be mistaken about the discernible differences between the shape of white pelicans and white storks in flight at great range and/or in mushy photos.

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