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Wading/coastal birds ID Part 1 (1 Viewer)

markyb2

Mark
I'm really rubbish at IDing waders and would like help with the following which I am guessing are:-

1) Greenshank ??

2+3) Curlew (please advise the difference between Curlew and Wimbrel in the field)

4+5) Black-Tailed Godwit (again please help with IDing black vs bar tailed Godwit when birds are not in flight - i.e. when you can't see the bar/black markings)

Any help much appreciated

Cheers

Mark
 

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You're right on the IDs except I think all the waders in picture 1 are Spotted Redshanks.

With the Curlew, note the rather plain head pattern and the gradually decurving bill. Whimbrel has a much more contrasting head pattern and the bill tends to be straight at the base but rather sharply decurved tip - they look a bit like a straight-billed bird that's flown into a brick wall, if that makes sense.

The Black-tailed Godwit shows the rather plain upperparts that help to distinguish from Bar-tailed, which has paler edges to the wing coverts and scapulars giving a rather scalloped look in juvenile or winter plumages. Note also the long legs in the final picture, particularly the tibia (upper leg). On Black-tailed you can write 'black' on the tibia and on Bar-tailed you can only write 'bar' (depends on the size of the writing but it gives you an idea of the different proportions).

Others will probably chip in with other features.
 
I think all the birds in picture 1 are probably Spotted Redshanks. The one that's awake apparently has dark red legs and a thin straight bill (greenshank's would be stouter and slightly upcurved), although the photo quality isn't good enough to rely on these features.

What's more convincing is the ashy grey heads of all the birds, merging softly into an unmarked white breast, with a prominent white supercilium in front of the eye. Greenshank would be finely streaked dark on head, neck and upper breast over a whitish background - some autumn greenshanks look very pale-headed.

To add to what Andrew said, a bill the length of the one in your curlew pictures probably rules out whimbrel straight away. However, the opposite isn't true! Curlew bills vary quite a lot in length, so short doesn't automatically mean whimbrel and you need to assess the shape as Andrew described (can be trickier than it sounds though!).
 
What I noticed was that all the sleeping birds appear to have greenish legs. They certainly look a different colour to the legs on the awake bird anyway. Also a bit puzzled about Simon's comments on the supercillium, which can't be seen on any of the sleeping birds.
 
I'm pretty sure all the birds in the first photo are Greenshank - the awake bird appears to be colour ringed, red over yellow on its left leg, and a dark ring (navy?) on its right.
 
In fact, if you take a look at http://www.cr-birding.be/ , then you can see details of Greenshank colour ringing projects. The entry under "note 4" looks possible - "dark blue as right lower tibia ring" - particularly given the input from Farlington ringing group, presumably close to where the photo was taken?
 
Simon G said:
I think all the birds in picture 1 are probably Spotted Redshanks.

Don't know about anyone else, but I can see two Shoveler.

What a bizarre debate; Greenshank and Spotshank should never be confusable, but I find myself unable to be 100% sure what they are!

If I had to make a call, I'd say Greenshanks - especially if the awake bird is colour-ringed.

Can see what you mean Andrew - the head pattern does look Spotshank-like.

HTH

GV
 
They are most definitely Greenshanks. Pale birds with slightly upcurved bills (yeah I know, you only see that in one). Spotted Redshank would have a darker breast, even in winter plumage.

"What a bizarre debate; Greenshank and Spotshank should never be confusable, but I find myself unable to be 100% sure what they are!"
If you don't pay attention, it's quite easy... I noticed that last week when I was more interested in nearby White & Black Storks (sorry).
 
Re: the Blackwits vs Barwits - a couple of other pointers in addition to the others already mentioned....

Black-tailed tend to have more pink than black on the bill - Barwits more black than pink.

Barwits have a slightly upturned bill, and of course are a bit smaller (not always much help if you see a bird in isolation!)

Re: the Greenshank vs Spotshanks - I agree that this is a bit harder from the photo than it really should be, but would the size relative to the Shovelers not make them Greenshank...


Rgds... Ruby
 
Must admit it never ceases to amaze me how some people on Birdforum seem to insist on seeing certain features in photographs that, for me at least, are impossible to see. In this rather fuzzy picture I prefer to think that the awake bird has red legs because its legs are red rather than because it is colour-ringed. I can't be sure because the picture isn't really sharp, but that's my default position on this because most birds, in my experience, aren't colour ringed. Even if it is colour-ringed, we are none the wiser as to the true colour of the birds legs. The bill also appears to be straight in the picture. I can't discern any upturn. That's not to say that it isn't upturned but this can't be deduced from the picture.

I am also rather puzzled that people seem to be making up characteristics of Spotted Redshank and Greenshank. There is very little difference in size between the two species, for instance, certainly nothing that would be useful in this picture. Also, if anything Spotted Redshank normally has quite pale breast in winter plumage, normally paler and more diffusely streaked than Greenshank. The fact that this bird seems to show a pale breast would (according to both my own experience and, more importantly, every fieldguide ever written) support it being a Spotted Redshank. The most clearly visible and useful feature that can be seen on this bird is the dark loral line contrasting with a pale supercillium in front of the eye. The combination of these features is much better for Spotted Redshank than Greenshank. The pale breast, head pattern and apparently red legs make me think that this bird is probably a Spotted Redshank. Pro-Greenshank features (e.g. green legs, upturned bill, heavily streaked head and breast) are, to my eyes, much harder to discern from this photograph with any degree of confidence.
 
I've been keeping out of this... for obvious reasons. If I was forced to choose I'd go for Spot Red. The does seem to be a v slight upturn on the awake birds bill but I wonder if its real. The image has the look of one that had been quite heavily digitally altered. I can't judge the leg colour. They do look a bit chunky for Spot Reds... but in the end the lack of any visible streaks (might be photo) and the apparently real dark loral line just tip it for me.

Any chance of seeing the raw image?
 
Still think the photo of the waders is ambiguous. If it's confusing Andrew and Jane it must be a lot trickier than it superficially looks!!

Attached are three poor photo's of Spotshank in WP and Greenshank (taken on 5 Sep, and slightly more in summer plumage than the birds in the original photo from Farlington - which also attached).

These photo's show that Greenshank does have a distinctive black loral line and the bill doesn't always look upcurved, and that Spotshank's bill can look downcurved due to the kinked tip. Although the sun is on the legs of the spotshank, the legs would look much more orange on the original pic. On all but the awake bird they look insignificantly greyish, indicating they are grey-green.

Note the breast pattern, which in the original is white in the centre, with brownish sides - very like the Greenshank pic, and unlike the spotshank, which has brown wash right across the breast. Also, the "shoulder" of the wing is dark on allt he birds in the Farlington pic, exactly as the Greenshank, and unlike the Spotshank. I don't think this is due to photographic effect or light in the original photo.

Still think they are Greenshanks, but they do look very spotshank-like in the photo.

Hope this helps

GV
 

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I think they are greenshanks. One thing I am certain of is that middle bird is colour ringed, either that or it has one leg red with 2 big lumps and the other dark with one big lump. Also considering its a blurry looking picture I think the the stronger contrasting shoulder pattern shows well on the furthest right birds in particular which would be more diffuse on spotshank. Every spotshank I have looked at (photos, distant views etc) always shows a downward kink at the end. Not only would this picture contradict this but it actually gives an impression of curving the other way! More importantly the observer who surely had the best view of all wouldn't have thought a bird with red shanks would be a greenshank.
 
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I didn't realise this post would create such debate, but if it helps enclosed are another cropped image of the original photo, the full photo (pixels reduced however to allow size small enough to upload) and another cropped photo of a further photo. Sorry about the quality of these.
 

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