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Redpoll - Russia

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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 15:04   #1
andyadcock
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Redpoll - Russia

St Petersburg, today.

I'd just like to run this past those with more knowledge of the races than me.

With a flock of c50 other Redpolls but obviously colder, greyer and with an almost unmarked rump, just a pale flammea?
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 15:41   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
St Petersburg, today.

I'd just like to run this past those with more knowledge of the races than me.

With a flock of c50 other Redpolls but obviously colder, greyer and with an almost unmarked rump, just a pale cabaret?
Female-type Coue's Redpoll would be my id of it
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 15:44   #3
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Thanks Ragnar.
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 18:42   #4
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I'd have thought that at least Grahame would have chipped in, are they that tough.....?
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 18:54   #5
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Think I'd err on the side of caution and put it down as Mealy (Common) - those flank streaks look too thick and heavy for "classic" Arctic Redpoll. To be 'tickable' as Arctic it really has to combine white rump, PLUS no more than fine flank streaks, PLUS no more than 1-2 fine streaks on the undertail coverts.
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 19:15   #6
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Think I'd err on the side of caution and put it down as Mealy (Common) - those flank streaks look too thick and heavy for "classic" Arctic Redpoll. To be 'tickable' as Arctic it really has to combine white rump, PLUS no more than fine flank streaks, PLUS no more than 1-2 fine streaks on the undertail coverts.
I agree generally, that's why I posted but apart from the rump and cold colouration, another pro Arctic feature is the white above the eye which extends over the bill?

This bird was different to the other fifty odd that were with it as you can see in one shot.
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 20:22   #7
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Andy FWIW before I comment on your bird (pure speculation on my part), how do you think it compares to these two birds?

1 and 4....The same bird (virtually no flank streaking) Coue's Arctic Redpoll, Aldeburgh

2 and 3....A different bird (heavy flank streaking) NE.London
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 20:28   #8
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Not just flank streaking Ken, buff in the wing bars, streaks visible on the rump which also looks less white than my bird, almost totally black face and overall warmer colour.

If mine were Coues's, I think it might be a first year hence the heaver streaking, the bird you posted looks like an adult and with respect, Coues's is a lot more likely here than NE London.

I'm not saying it's Coues's but it was a standout in a flock of 50 odd and I wanted opinions, hence the posting.
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 23:07   #9
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Not suggesting mine were Coue’s at all, just showing the level of variation amongst birds of a similar cosmetic, my birds were two out of c16, and also stuck out like sore thumbs amongst the Lessers that were present. Your birds appear to have a greater area of white to the rump than mine, however I think it’s expedient to say they’re certainly interesting....and they ain’t Lessers!

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Old Friday 7th December 2018, 08:56   #10
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I know that this is a very tricky group but I'm surprised that no one else feels able to comment, the shots aren't that bad!
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Old Friday 7th December 2018, 09:40   #11
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The shots are good but they only show a limited suite of features - we can't see the undertail coverts, and the face pattern, bill structure, and amount of white/streaking in the rump are all obscured to some degree. The plumage tones make this look like an interesting bird for sure, but personally I'd more to go on to nail the ID.
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Old Friday 7th December 2018, 10:00   #12
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The shots are good but they only show a limited suite of features - we can't see the undertail coverts, and the face pattern, bill structure, and amount of white/streaking in the rump are all obscured to some degree. The plumage tones make this look like an interesting bird for sure, but personally I'd more to go on to nail the ID.
I know what you mean, I just though that there was probably enough for those more familiar than me, couldn't get the undertail as I was on our balcony, looking down.

They've long since disappeared in to the vast, Russian forest that surrounds us so probably won't see it again.
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