videoscoping Swarovski ats 80HD (1 Viewer)

Hello,
I am French and I have not got a good english but I try to explain my problems.
I have a Swarovski ATS80HD with a fixe 30w eyepiece.

Today, I have test some camcorders : canon HF 200, Sony hdr Xr200 and Sony hdr Xr 105. For the first, it is very bad, even at wide angle I have some vignetting... For the two Sony, it is fine at wide angle (without zoom). But after, when I use the zoom, I have a lot of vignetting until 9x (if I remember well) but at this zoom, the light is not so good.

So, I have some questions :
- is it the same problem for you with all the systems (camcorders, field scope and eyepiece) ?
- is it an eyepiece-problem? I have seen, a lot of birders have a zoom... If some people have experiences with the 20-60x or the 25-50w Swarovski, tell me more please...

Thanks a lot

Nathan

Hi LagoVivo. Welcome to Birdforum!

I have videoscoped for a couple years with a Swarovski and an old Canon camcorder. I also have both 30w and 20-60 zoom.

In my experience I have done most of my videoing at 20x with the zoom. When videoscoping with most camcorders there is a lot of magnification (you need to stand behind everyone else to successfully videoscope!), and once you go up to 30x it is not very successful. I prefer using the zoom at 20x to the fixed 30x for videoscoping.

The usual rules apply. You need an adaptor to get the camcorder lens as close to the eyepiece as possible. You will need to zoom in to reduce vignetting with all camcorders. The one problem with the 20-60x zoom is that the field of view is not that great, so the 25-50x at 25x may work better, but I would want to keep eyepiece magnification as low as possible.

I have heard that some of the new Panasonic HD camcorders work well but have not tried them yet. A search on this forum may give you some ideas.

SC

LagoVivo said:

Hello,
I am French and I have not got a good english but I try to explain my problems.
I have a Swarovski ATS80HD with a fixe 30w eyepiece.

Today, I have test some camcorders : canon HF 200, Sony hdr Xr200 and Sony hdr Xr 105. For the first, it is very bad, even at wide angle I have some vignetting... For the two Sony, it is fine at wide angle (without zoom). But after, when I use the zoom, I have a lot of vignetting until 9x (if I remember well) but at this zoom, the light is not so good.

So, I have some questions :
- is it the same problem for you with all the systems (camcorders, field scope and eyepiece) ?
- is it an eyepiece-problem? I have seen, a lot of birders have a zoom... If some people have experiences with the 20-60x or the 25-50w Swarovski, tell me more please...

Thanks a lot

Nathan

Click to expand...

Hi Nathan, welcome to BirdForum!
SC had some good points but I think I can add a bit that might help.

In my experience, the 30xW is a great videoscoping eyepiece as it has a wide field of view and a long eye relief. Camcorders are tricky because there is lots of "dead space" between the front of the camcorder and where the image is actually used.

The 25-50x zoom eyepiece also works well and gives you the possibility to play with the zoom a bit to frame a video shot.

With most camcorders, when you use the camcorder's zoom, it effectively increases the vignetting (as opposed to decreasing it as with the little 4x compact cameras). This means that you need to set your camcorder system up so that you have no (or little) vignetting without using the camcorder's zoom.

As for camcorder models, you might find that if you take the eyecup of the 30x eyepiece off, you can get the camcorder just a little bit closer to the ocular to get rid of the vignetting. SC suggested the Panasonic Camcorders. These often work well simply because you can take the front off of the Panasonic camcorders so that you can move the camcorder almost 1cm closer to the ocular - this can make all the difference for vignetting.

I would suggest trying to find a camcorder that works with you setup. I doubt a zoom ocular would be any better than your current setup.

When you do get some video, I would love to see it!

Happy videoscoping,
Dale

Hi,
It is the first time I use the Birdforum to get information and I must tell it is wonderful.
These two answers give me more information I have gotten on Internet for one week !

As you tell Dale Forbes, I have taken off the eyecup for the tests yesterday. It is better without... With the two Sony I have tested there is no vignetting at wide angle and the good position is really easy to find.

I will test next week with some panasonic camcorders.
The main problem is : if I cannot zoom, sometimes it is too little at wide angle for wild mammals as bears and wolves (my field of interest).

I have some other questions :
- When you move your videos on computer, is it possible to select a new square for the video (so you can take off the vignetting) ?
- Do you know if you lost a lot of quality when you zoom in the video on the computer ? The sony hdr xr 200 is a great camcorder, I would believe that this lost of quality is not so important.

Finally, I am interested in the 25-50x for the observation ; Is there a big difference between this zoom and the 30w (light, quality, digiscoping, videoscoping)?

Thanks for your help
And sorry an other time for my poooooor english

Hi,
Second post int two minutes...
Dale, I have visited your website, it is really impressive.
Which kind of setup do you have (field scope, eyepiece, camcorder or camera, adaptator) ?
Thanks

Nathan

Hi Nathan,

I use the same scope as you but with the 20-60 zoom eyepiece. With my camcorder (a six-year-old Sony PC330 with a 10x zoom lens) I find that even at 20x magnification, to remove vignetting I have to set the camcorder to maximum zoom. In other words I need to be shooting at 200x magnification which is far too high for normal use.

A British company called EagleEye sells a Digiscoping Eyepiece which on our scopes would give 12x magnification. I use one of these with their adapter for videoscoping with some success. With my camcorder I can use approximately three quarters of the zoom range (25-100x) without any vignetting.

I have no information on the camcorders that you have been trying but would suggest a model with no more than 10x zoom for videoscoping. You will also need a sturdy tripod with a video head. I use a Manfrotto 055MF3 with a 701HDV head.

Good luck!

Mike

LagoVivo said:

Hi,
It is the first time I use the Birdforum to get information and I must tell it is wonderful.
These two answers give me more information I have gotten on Internet for one week !

As you tell Dale Forbes, I have taken off the eyecup for the tests yesterday. It is better without... With the two Sony I have tested there is no vignetting at wide angle and the good position is really easy to find.

I will test next week with some panasonic camcorders.
The main problem is : if I cannot zoom, sometimes it is too little at wide angle for wild mammals as bears and wolves (my field of interest).

I have some other questions :
- When you move your videos on computer, is it possible to select a new square for the video (so you can take off the vignetting) ?
- Do you know if you lost a lot of quality when you zoom in the video on the computer ? The sony hdr xr 200 is a great camcorder, I would believe that this lost of quality is not so important.

Finally, I am interested in the 25-50x for the observation ; Is there a big difference between this zoom and the 30w (light, quality, digiscoping, videoscoping)?

Thanks for your help
And sorry an other time for my poooooor english

Click to expand...

Nathan, please do not worry about your English - my French is disastrous!

When you try the Panasonic, make sure you unscrew the very front section so that you take the whole "lens cap" off - this will let you get even closer.
I am glad to hear your current setup works with the sony - at least you can start practicing (have you got a good tripod and tripod head?).

I am currently using the following setup for videoscoping:
Swarovski Optik ATM/STM 80 HD
25-50x W ocular
UCA digiscoping adapter
Panasonic HDC-SD100

I can get a vignetting-free image throughout the ocular's 25-50 zoom range with the eyecup removed.
Here are some things to bear in mind if you want to videoscope wolves and bears:
1. Take me with, please!
2. the zoom ocular would give you more freedom to frame your shot
3. using a nice, fluid tripod head and stable tripod is essential if you want to get action/moving shots, especially at higher focal lengths

With a full HD camcorder, cropping 5-10% of the image to get rid of mild vignetting is not a serious problem, especially if you took the video in good light (i.e. low ISO, little pixelation).

Happy videoscoping,
Dale

Thanks for your answers!

I have a very good tripod with a strong head as Imake movies with DV camcorder (Xm2) and I have a suitable adaptor.
I wait authorization from a national park to post on internet the videos of bears/wolves I made last year (female brown bear with 3 cubs, wolf, play-fighting of a female bear with her only one cub...)!

So, the first conclusion is : the 25-50x could help me to avoid some vignetting. Dale Forbes, could you tell me which magnification you can use with your setup (example : 50x scope + 2x camcorder = 100x magnification) ?
By now, I can only use 30x magnification (30x scope + 1x camcorder) with my setup and the best could be around 100x magnification...

Friendly

Nathan

LagoVivo said:

Thanks for your answers!

I have a very good tripod with a strong head as Imake movies with DV camcorder (Xm2) and I have a suitable adaptor.
I wait authorization from a national park to post on internet the videos of bears/wolves I made last year (female brown bear with 3 cubs, wolf, play-fighting of a female bear with her only one cub...)!

So, the first conclusion is : the 25-50x could help me to avoid some vignetting. Dale Forbes, could you tell me which magnification you can use with your setup (example : 50x scope + 2x camcorder = 100x magnification) ?
By now, I can only use 30x magnification (30x scope + 1x camcorder) with my setup and the best could be around 100x magnification...

Friendly

Nathan

Click to expand...

1. the 25-50x is probably not better at reducing vignetting than the 30x, but it does give you the flexibility of zoom
2. I would be surprised if you can use camcorder zoom with any eyepiece (this would require a different zoom system to any I have come across so far; or an incredibly long eye relief)
3. I tend to use mainly 25x Zoom on the eyepiece - the lower the magnification, the less I am exposed to system shake (particularly a problem if you want to move the system to follow a moving subject). But, you have a very good, stable tripod system which should make it a lot easier for you to videoscope at 50x magnification.

Kind regards and good luck,
Dale

I'm able to use camcorder zoom with my Siebert Performance 35mm eyepiece. Great images through half the camcorder's zoom range (1x to 5x). The eyepiece still works beyond that but I get CA, possibly from the camcorder's own objective lenses. The Siebert Performance 35mm has almost 30mm of eyerelief.

Perhaps you can ask Harry Siebert to machine a special version of the Performance 35mm so it can be used in the Swaro?