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Leitz 10x40B or perhaps another vintage pair of bins? (1 Viewer)

J

JamesJ

Member
Hi all,

I am looking for a pair of binoculars for us to use for general wildlife watching, star gazing, boats etc etc. Most likely to be kept in the car. I would love a brand new pair of Leica or Swarovski and I have looked through them in shops and I am fully aware of what I will be missing, but the purse strings just don't run that far.

So, I have been looking at the other options - mainly good quality, vintage secondhand pairs. One pair that have taken my fancy are the Leitz 10x40 - I really like their styling, the reviews I have read on here (despite making it clear that they won't won't beat the modern optics that are out of my reach) are positive and the build quality is rated as excellent. For me they seem a really option and for around £200/250 I should be able to get a good pair.

But before I part with any money, is there anything else I should really be considering? Is there a cracking pair of vintage or even recent optics that can be had for similar money?

All and any thoughts welcome and appreciated.

James
 
Sorry to be a spoil-sport, but as beautiful as they are, I wouldn't buy a roof without phase-correction coatings.

--AP
 
Hello James,

The Leitz 10x40B is a beautiful binocular. However, its optics are definitely old school. As an early roof prism binocular it was dim and lacked contrast. Optically, it was inferior to Porro Prism binoculars of the same period. Phase coating, available on Leica binoculars and on more modern Zeiss roof prism binoculars is a big step forward.

The Leica binoculars and the Zeiss ClassiCs, with phase coating, even those from ten years ago, are a step up. With patience, you might find a UK seller on BirdForum of one of them. I think that you would like the looks of the Zeiss 10x40 BGATP, but it is not reliably waterproof.. The older non phase coated Dialyts are dimmer and less contrast.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:
 
the only thing iv found that comes close to alfa quality optics and with a neutral cast are my zrak 7x40's and fall within your budget.
down side though they are full on military with retical, heavy at 1200 gms and independent focus.
on the plus side wide field of view (8.5 degree's) and they have incredible depth of focus and closer object are focused if i look a little lower/off center in the field of view.
i have taken them birding on our local lake from a hide and got some funny looks. someone else in the hide with me using leica binoculars and spotting scope asked to have a look through them and he was gobsmacked remarking on the contrast, sharpness, depth of focus as well as the 3d effect of a porro.
not every ones taste but they didnt cost the earth and i love them
 
Hi James, welcome.
I bought a 10x40 Leitz from a firm I dealt with before over many years.
It was listed as in good condition.
Besides being dim, this example has debris visible in the eyepiece etc.
I kept it, but will never again buy from this source, although I have had excellent bargains from them in the past.
It is the inaccurate description that I object to.
Even a good one will be dim.

For £200 to £250 I don't know what to suggest.
Maybe a modern waterproof Porroprism binocular.
Or maybe a modern roof of lesser quality.

For astronomy a mint Leitz 10x40 is probably O.K. But for birdwatching, brightness, contrast and waterproofing seem to be needed.

Good luck anyway.

Lots of free beautiful firework displays this evening. Probably a lot of debris tomorrow.
 
Last edited:
Roadbike, post 6,
Yes the Minolta 7x35 porro is a vintage binocular and very acceptable:
weight: 762 g
FOV 192m/1000m !!
Close focus: 5 m
Transmission at 550 m= 87%
Focussing speed: 0,7 rev. from close focus to infinity.
Eye relief: 12 mm
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Hi James,

first of all, welcome to BF!

As has been said, roof bins without phase coating are best avoided, especially in higher magnifications - with a 7x it might be just ok...

First of all, why did you choose a 10x pair - they're not everybody's cup of tea - have you tried one? 8x is more commonly used for birding.
Also do your wear glasses when using bins - if yes, good eye relief is necessary and this makes some models less suitable.

If I would search for an inexpensive general purpose pair now, I would probably get a pair of Nikon Monarch 7 in 8x30 - they're small, light, inexpensive and the view is hard to beat for the price of 300€ or thereabouts for a new or demo pair with warranty. They are borderline for use with glasses though - works for some, not for others.

Used optics I buy in person if possible or from a reputable business with a good return policy (Infocus or Cleyspy used lists often have nice deals). Trying to get a specific model is going to take a lot of patience or luck or both (in case of rarer examples) - you look what's available and in budget and look for reviews...

Joachim
 
Hi all,

Thank you so much for your replies - really helpful.

I do like the look of the Zeiss 10x40. Looking on flebay I can see these. How do I know if they have the all important phase coatings?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Mint-Car...=item2605de17ca:g:m7cAAOSwIVhaSlTb:rk:10:pf:0

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ZEISS-DI...h=item286cc42879:g:kuUAAOSw~ydb31HS:rk:4:pf:0

Are either of these any good (The £315 are bit out of my price range, but are they the sort of thing I should be looking at?)

I'll be honest and say the 10x40 was just a slightly boyish, well if 8x30 is good then 10x40 must be better! But I am totally open to persuasion on that. I see that the 8x Leitz actually seem to go for more than the 10x.

I looked up the zrak 7x40 and whilst I am sure they are wonderful, they are going to be a joint wedding anniversary present for my wife and I and I am not too sure what her face would be like if she unwrapped a pair of those!

What about vintage Swarovski - anything there worth considering?

Once again, I do realise that whatever we buy for our prince range is not going to match the latest Swarovski/Leica etc and we don't expect them to. I'm just looking for something well made, that look and feel nice and with optics the best we can get at this price range. Keep in mind that since misplacing our crappy small nikon bins we have just been using the naked eye, so whatever we get is going to be a step up!

Many thanks for all your help.

James
 
Hello James,

Neither are phase coated. The first is an old Zeiss Jena binocular. The second is an old Carl Zeiss Dialyt. The phase coated ones were generally rubber armored and the seller would state BGATP. Briller, meaning eyeglasses and good eye relief, GAmeaning G Gummi Armour, rubber armored, T meaning high transmission coating and P meaning phase coating.Some may have been marked BGAT*P* with the same meaning.

Joachim's advice might keep you in your price range.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
the zraks are a laugh but yes i understand, though my partner often has a look through them and thinks they are great but heavy. i wouldnt get too hung up on the vintage, there are a fare few new model roofs with phase coatings that perform better than vintage roofs in you price range second hand. i tried and bought a pair of opticron bga se wp 8x42 roofs new about 8 years ago after comparing them side by side with a pair of similar swarovski's and everything else in the shop, even the older bga model performs very well.
they can be found second hand within your budget
 
Hmmm... seems it might be time to have a cuppa or two and try and convince my head to rule my heart... my finger has been wavering over the buy button on a pair of Leitz Trinovid 10x40b for a couple of days. But I can see that the new Nikon's recommended above are only a few pounds more.

If these vintage binoculars are so poor quality by today's standards why are they fetching decent money? Surely they should be worthless?

James
 
edit, wrong link this one is the 8x42
will if in good condition out perform the leitz noticeably. id say the desirability of vintage roof prism binoculars is purely for the collectability.
as a user if you had the modern ones below side by side the leitz would disappoint lacking contrast and brightness
as aside the 8x42's i had were excellent hand held astronomy binoculars, pin point stars.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Opticron-imagic-10x42-BGA-SE-WP-Binoculars/173584795307?hash=item286a75c6ab:g:G3EAAOSwKA5bwFUx
 
Last edited:
Hi,

whatever you do, please stay away from the CZJ Notarem - they were not among their best constructions.

The Zeiss West Dialyth would be a good deal if it was phase coated - but as has been stated by s.b. else already, that version would have been the rubber armoured 10x40 BGATP (infocus has an example on offer fro 330 quid).

Vintage Swaro tend to be expensive. Their iconic Habicht line of porros are known to be quite sharp and the current examples also sport the latest coatings which together with a simple construction results into very good transmission (older examples not so much since they have older multicoatings or are even single coated). They also have their disadvantages (8x30 and 10x40 have problems with glare & reflections, 7x40 has a very narrow field of view due to small prisms, all have short eye relief and will not work with glasses).

Joachim
 
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If you can work with porro prism bins that are not from Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski then consider one of the following. All should be well within budget and will deliver excellent viewing. Earlier versions of alpha brand roof prism bins are reasonably priced for reasons that have been stated.
Nikon 10x35 E is predecesor to the EII. Nice used examples are available online.
Nikon 10x40 Action is discontinued but new examples can still be found.
Nikon 10x42 Aculon replaced the Action series and is widely available.
 
The Zeiss Jena Notarem in post 9 seem way overpriced.

There may be two types of Leitz 10x40. Extra wide angle and normal eyepieces, maybe with different eye relief.
I bought mine because of the wide field, but wish I hadn't as it is a poor example.

P.S.
The Nikon Action 10x40 is nearer 10.7x or 10.9x and has minimal eye relief. I would avoid this one.
The Nikon Aculon 10x42 is much better.

The Minolta 7x35 Standard MK measured 11.05 degrees on star separations. I didn't realise it has such a high transmission (87%).
The Minolta Porros have various iterations, not all being EWA.

Thanks Gijs for the transmission detail.
 
Last edited:
Binastro said:
The Zeiss Jena Notarem in post 9 seem way overpriced.

There may be two types of Leitz 10x40. Extra wide angle and normal eyepieces, maybe with different eye relief.
I bought mine because of the wide field, but wish I hadn't as it is a poor example.
Click to expand...


There are 2 types of 10x40s (see allbinos). The 10x40B and 10x40BA have 6.3º FOV.

https://www.allbinos.com/1654-Leitz_Trinovid_10x40_BA-binoculars_specifications.html

and

https://www.allbinos.com/1651-Leitz_Trinovid_10x40_B-binoculars_specifications.html

The 10x40 has a 7º FOV.

https://www.allbinos.com/1637-Leitz_Trinovid_10x40-binoculars_specifications.html

Bob
 
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JamesJ said:
Hmmm... seems it might be time to have a cuppa or two and try and convince my head to rule my heart... my finger has been wavering over the buy button on a pair of Leitz Trinovid 10x40b for a couple of days. But I can see that the new Nikon's recommended above are only a few pounds more.

If these vintage binoculars are so poor quality by today's standards why are they fetching decent money? Surely they should be worthless?

James
Click to expand...

Hello James,

Leica collectors are a very strange breed. I do not think that Either Zeiss or that Austrian brand’s fans are so enthusiastic about their products.

I own a Leitz Binuxit 8x30 from 1951 which is very dear to me, even though I spent too much for eye cups to accommodate my eyeglasses and too much for a good cleaning and collimating. Modern coatings produce superior images but it is so well made and easy to use. My 7x50 Leitz Marseptit, which is seventy years old may be unmatched for resolution.

For bird watching, I use a modern Zeiss 8x32 FL.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur
 
Vintage binoculars are old tech, if you are willing to accept that and are more interesting in something with prestige then an old Leica or Zeiss is fine, though personally I'd want something that potentially wouldn't cost a tricky ID - in the vintage camp that's pretty much the t*p* Zeiss, but the prices are double your budget. I'd personally recommend something modern, waterproof and with good glass. Nikon bins are excellent and widely used, and I think these are a bargain. Good luck with your search!
 
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