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Panasonic Lumix FZ-10 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter normjackson
- Start date
Pops_uk
Well-known member
Hi, to all you people who have been following the camera in the Dpreview Panasonic Forum, I’d love to see your conclusions.
Mine is that we have a £400 camera that has a 12x zoom, a wicked lens, that in good light and outdoors, will take brilliant pictures, outside of that criteria, you really will need to have had read the book
And as far as long distance buying is concerned, I’d be very wary, having read about four defective cameras
Regards Glyn
Mine is that we have a £400 camera that has a 12x zoom, a wicked lens, that in good light and outdoors, will take brilliant pictures, outside of that criteria, you really will need to have had read the book
And as far as long distance buying is concerned, I’d be very wary, having read about four defective cameras
Regards Glyn
Hi Pops,
Well my conclusion, for whatever it is worth, is that it is a fine beginners camera. I think it is actually hard to beat for someone just starting out in the field. However, also on the various forums is a lot of talk about what potentially is going to be revealed at the March 2004 PDA's. I don't think this camera is that good that I cannot wait 3 months. Granted, one can always "wait" for the next and greatest thing, but I think prosumer and dslr cameras are going to mature (well at least enter puberty!) in the next few months to two years. I think that will be worth waiting for.
Well my conclusion, for whatever it is worth, is that it is a fine beginners camera. I think it is actually hard to beat for someone just starting out in the field. However, also on the various forums is a lot of talk about what potentially is going to be revealed at the March 2004 PDA's. I don't think this camera is that good that I cannot wait 3 months. Granted, one can always "wait" for the next and greatest thing, but I think prosumer and dslr cameras are going to mature (well at least enter puberty!) in the next few months to two years. I think that will be worth waiting for.
IanF
Moderator
To be honest I am only waiting for the FZ-10 to be launched over here.
To my mind at least, it is sufficiently advanced over my Olympus C2100UZ and the Pro 90IS that it is worth serious consideration. I'd say that whilst not as good a proposition as a true DSLR+400mm lens (very costly), it is certainly more than a 'beginners' camera as it has good manual control focus options, the benefit of IS, takes suplementary lenses and 4 MP output. If the lens quality is up to it, as the demo shots I've seen seem to be then I think this is an excellent wildlife/birding camera.
If it comes in at the £400 price over here then I'll definitely be buying one as an upgrade to my Uzi.
To my mind at least, it is sufficiently advanced over my Olympus C2100UZ and the Pro 90IS that it is worth serious consideration. I'd say that whilst not as good a proposition as a true DSLR+400mm lens (very costly), it is certainly more than a 'beginners' camera as it has good manual control focus options, the benefit of IS, takes suplementary lenses and 4 MP output. If the lens quality is up to it, as the demo shots I've seen seem to be then I think this is an excellent wildlife/birding camera.
If it comes in at the £400 price over here then I'll definitely be buying one as an upgrade to my Uzi.
I would have to agree that when actual $$ is figured, cost vs. benefit type of thing, that this camera (FZ10) is a far better than any dslr (configuring in some equal reach lenses). Now before anyone gets up in a huff, the dslr will, in most cases, take superior images than a prosumer (depends on which dslr you are referring to, and what conditions the photo is being taken in). However, if you can get the FZ10 for no more than $599 (U.S.), plus another $100 for a TCON-17, you have invested only $700 for a very acceptable camera. However, you will need anywhere from $2,000 to $4,000 (or more) to get comparable reach. So I have to figure, is that shot worth 3-6 times the amount? Sorry, IMO I do not think so. (All this pertains to the amateur photographer vs. the pro).
Is it a beginner's camera? That, of course, will always be a matter of opinion. The 300D does not have full control like the 10D, but is still not regarded as a beginner's camera. For me, the decision came down to someone I know who owns the Canon Pro90 (which I also own) and took comparison shots with the FZ10. He also owns a 10D, among other cameras, so I trust his experiments. His determination was that, as a whole, picture quality was not superior to the Canon Pro90. I am looking for a true upgrade, not a supplemental camera. If it is a true upgrade for anyone here, or perhaps someone is looking for a supplemental camera, then by all means go for it. What is not good for one is not necessary not good for another.
Not trying to ramble, just trying to discuss.
Is it a beginner's camera? That, of course, will always be a matter of opinion. The 300D does not have full control like the 10D, but is still not regarded as a beginner's camera. For me, the decision came down to someone I know who owns the Canon Pro90 (which I also own) and took comparison shots with the FZ10. He also owns a 10D, among other cameras, so I trust his experiments. His determination was that, as a whole, picture quality was not superior to the Canon Pro90. I am looking for a true upgrade, not a supplemental camera. If it is a true upgrade for anyone here, or perhaps someone is looking for a supplemental camera, then by all means go for it. What is not good for one is not necessary not good for another.
Not trying to ramble, just trying to discuss.
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normjackson
Well-known member
Very soon after announcement of FZ-10 there was a rumour about the FZ-10 not being released in Europe till Spring (poss. at CEBit). Looks like may have been well founded (sorry, probably was too cowardly to pass on a bad news rumour). This is the latest have seen with some contacts for those interested :
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=7097864
And on the teleconvertor front here's some cud to chew :
http://www.b-300.com/compare6.html
The Sony lens is ca. £150 from Amazon UK BTW.
Wish everyone at BirdForum a happy new year.
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=7097864
And on the teleconvertor front here's some cud to chew :
http://www.b-300.com/compare6.html
The Sony lens is ca. £150 from Amazon UK BTW.
Wish everyone at BirdForum a happy new year.
John Fleet
Finally reached 300!
Norm, I think the review site mentioned is very revealing; particulary in respect to the ongoing 'controversy' re. digital versus optical zoom. Now we all know that all digital zoom is doing is enlarging what's already there and doesn't capture any 'new' info as there aren't any more pixels involved but the real world comparisons are IMHO quite interesting. In particular for bird photography were absolute sharpness whilst being highly desirable is only one factor.
The selective enlargements at the bottom of the review reveal 2 things for me:
1. The Sony lens in noticably sharper than the Olympus
2. Both teleconverters suffer from significant CAs - look at the white window frames which is barely discernable in the digital zoom shot.
For me the shots certainly call into question the value of spending the £90 or so on the Olympus teleconverter - what do others think?
John Fleet
The selective enlargements at the bottom of the review reveal 2 things for me:
1. The Sony lens in noticably sharper than the Olympus
2. Both teleconverters suffer from significant CAs - look at the white window frames which is barely discernable in the digital zoom shot.
For me the shots certainly call into question the value of spending the £90 or so on the Olympus teleconverter - what do others think?
John Fleet
IanF
Moderator
I certainly like the Olympus converters when matched to Olympus cameras, but can't really comment on them when connected to other brands. The other thing to consider is that this is just one comparison. Others I have seen have given pretty good results.
As regards the FZ-10 launch date, I read somewhere (sorry to be so vague) that it is to be launched in the UK on 22nd March - but I don't know how accurate that is.
As regards the FZ-10 launch date, I read somewhere (sorry to be so vague) that it is to be launched in the UK on 22nd March - but I don't know how accurate that is.
John Cantelo
Well-known member
The latest edition of ‘What Digital Camera?’ (which went on sale in the UK on 26/12) features a review of the PANASONIC FZ-10. Unfortunately, not being possessed of an eidetic memory, I can’t recall the article in its entirety. However, the gist was very favourable, with picture quality considered excellent and an overall “score” of 91/100 (i.e. one of the better scores given, I think). The only thing the reviewer didn’t like was the lack of manual focus as this may use excessive power although the battery life was still said to be good. The price, £499 as I recall, is lower than I had anticipated given $ price (which often converts directly into ££s).
The magazine promised samples of pictures (and presumably further details) on its website (http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com), but currently it only has information from the previous edition. Whether it mentioned when it would go on sale in the UK I can’t recall, but its appearance in the magazine suggests sooner rather than later.
Incidentally, Brian asked me (in a private post) where I came across the rumours regarding forthcoming digital cameras. I'd better admit to all that I can't plain remember other than it was from a netsite,
John Cantelo
The magazine promised samples of pictures (and presumably further details) on its website (http://www.whatdigitalcamera.com), but currently it only has information from the previous edition. Whether it mentioned when it would go on sale in the UK I can’t recall, but its appearance in the magazine suggests sooner rather than later.
Incidentally, Brian asked me (in a private post) where I came across the rumours regarding forthcoming digital cameras. I'd better admit to all that I can't plain remember other than it was from a netsite,
John Cantelo
IanF
Moderator
Thanks for posting this John, I managed to pick up a copy today. I did receive rather a good review, better than I was expecting. It's seldom that a camera review scores as highly as this.
The only de-merits I could see were for
- non-AA batteries
- lack of manual zoom control. It has a full manual focus option.
- Being Jpeg only
- larger than rivals (a bonus for me)
The only de-merits I could see were for
- non-AA batteries
- lack of manual zoom control. It has a full manual focus option.
- Being Jpeg only
- larger than rivals (a bonus for me)
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Doug Lloyd
Well-known member
Not a FZ10 owner but one of the photo sites I frequent has a dozen or so FZ10 shooters posting quite a few shots. Also some on going discussions. You dont have to become a member to review the forums. But the price is right to join if you care too. FREE.
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/
Doug
http://www.onlinephotographers.com/
Doug
Doug Greenberg
Well-known member
So is the idea here to use this new camera by itself for bird photography, or are people going to use it as a digiscoping camera? If the former, my own prejudices as a long-time bird photographer would lead me to believe that with the built-in lens zoomed out to an "equivalent" 400mm.-plus the results are going to be marginal/disappointing when compared to a good 35mm. DSLR setup. Designing any 12x zoom is going to result in optical compromises that are going to cause problems at the long zoom end.
But hey, I'm willing to be proven wrong.
But hey, I'm willing to be proven wrong.
IanF
Moderator
Hi Doug and Doug,
DougL - you're right, as you and I know, quite a few of the member's there have the FZ-10 and some are doing great things with it. Certainly anyone interested in this camera should have a look at the forums as several members have had the camera for varying amounts of time now and Jimmie especially has experimented with use of additional lenses like the B300/Tcon17.
DougG - To my mind it's defintiely a camera to be used on it's own as it's quite a chunky affair by anyone's reckoning with a whopping 12x optical zoom lens that with hood attachment takes a 72mm filter thread to which teleconverters for wideangle or tele use can be attahced. I believe Panasonic are or will be doing a 1.5x but at quite a price. The Olympus B300 / Tcon 17 seems to work with it very well for some people.
I agree that a DSLR is likely to give better results every time. The FZ-10 hasn't been released yet over here but has been estimated at £499. A DSLR will set you back at least £700 (300D Digital Rebel) just for the body and another £1000+ for a good long lens.
Really they're in a different class to my mind - if you have bird photography in mind. Of course if you already have a decent spotting scope then digiscoping may be a more cost effective solution. For my needs I find a 10x zoom+teleconverter and digiscoping covers what I want to do. I'd be looking for a replacement for my Olympus C2100UZ for when it packs in as surely it must one day. I really like the Olympus C750 but it lacks an IS. The FZ-10 has IS and far more.
DougL - you're right, as you and I know, quite a few of the member's there have the FZ-10 and some are doing great things with it. Certainly anyone interested in this camera should have a look at the forums as several members have had the camera for varying amounts of time now and Jimmie especially has experimented with use of additional lenses like the B300/Tcon17.
DougG - To my mind it's defintiely a camera to be used on it's own as it's quite a chunky affair by anyone's reckoning with a whopping 12x optical zoom lens that with hood attachment takes a 72mm filter thread to which teleconverters for wideangle or tele use can be attahced. I believe Panasonic are or will be doing a 1.5x but at quite a price. The Olympus B300 / Tcon 17 seems to work with it very well for some people.
I agree that a DSLR is likely to give better results every time. The FZ-10 hasn't been released yet over here but has been estimated at £499. A DSLR will set you back at least £700 (300D Digital Rebel) just for the body and another £1000+ for a good long lens.
Really they're in a different class to my mind - if you have bird photography in mind. Of course if you already have a decent spotting scope then digiscoping may be a more cost effective solution. For my needs I find a 10x zoom+teleconverter and digiscoping covers what I want to do. I'd be looking for a replacement for my Olympus C2100UZ for when it packs in as surely it must one day. I really like the Olympus C750 but it lacks an IS. The FZ-10 has IS and far more.
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Doug Greenberg
Well-known member
I wonder, is there any way for me to find member photos taken with this particular camera? I'd love to see them but don't know how to do this particular kind of search.
IanF
Moderator
Doug,
You can go in the Gallery on Bird Forum, half way down on the right is the search facility. First of all select the 'all images' button. On the new page enter whatever camera you are interested in and the search will bring back results of all members using that camera. I don't believe we have any FZ-10 owners yet, but it's only a matter of time.
On the other site mentioned you can either scroll down to the 'cameras' forum and several postings there cover the FZ-10 in the thread titiles, likewise in the Wildlife forum.
You can go in the Gallery on Bird Forum, half way down on the right is the search facility. First of all select the 'all images' button. On the new page enter whatever camera you are interested in and the search will bring back results of all members using that camera. I don't believe we have any FZ-10 owners yet, but it's only a matter of time.
On the other site mentioned you can either scroll down to the 'cameras' forum and several postings there cover the FZ-10 in the thread titiles, likewise in the Wildlife forum.
Pops_uk
Well-known member
Doug Greenberg said:
Here’s one of the latest (bird) from dpreview, sadly no data, except is has been sharpened and cropped
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1033&message=7117016
Regards Glyn
John Cantelo
Well-known member
Hi Ian et al,
Having now remembered to pop into W H Smith with sufficient money (always useful!), I too have now purchased “What Digital Camera” magazine, (but that irritating missing “?” was almost enough make me resist!) In their round-up of just over 100 cameras only 10% or so get 91 or above (and none over 93). Since half of these cameras retail at £1000+ and few have optical zooms above x7, the Panasonic begins to look a very good buy indeed for the digi-snapping birder. Oddly enough, given what a great improvement the FZ-10 is said to be on its 2 MP predecessor, the FZ-1, the older camera also gets a 91/100 rating. Somewhat perverse, I think. However, the final verdict is worth quoting in full:-
“Panasonic has little pedigree in the enthusiast market, but they’ve done their homework. The FZ10 is great to use, has most of the features you’d want (including a terrific lens) and the image quality is outstanding for the money. It’s bigger than most other superzooms, but it’s arguably the best, and deserves huge success”.
The price I quoted, £499, is indeed correct although it is followed by an ominous ‘tbc’ which I take to mean ‘to be confirmed’ and no actual date is given for its appearance in the UK. The 16 MB card it comes with is pretty feeble for a 4 MP camera and, unless I missed it, it doesn’t seem to come with a case or battery charger at that price so for a usable package I’d guess we’re looking at well into the £500s.
John
Having now remembered to pop into W H Smith with sufficient money (always useful!), I too have now purchased “What Digital Camera” magazine, (but that irritating missing “?” was almost enough make me resist!) In their round-up of just over 100 cameras only 10% or so get 91 or above (and none over 93). Since half of these cameras retail at £1000+ and few have optical zooms above x7, the Panasonic begins to look a very good buy indeed for the digi-snapping birder. Oddly enough, given what a great improvement the FZ-10 is said to be on its 2 MP predecessor, the FZ-1, the older camera also gets a 91/100 rating. Somewhat perverse, I think. However, the final verdict is worth quoting in full:-
“Panasonic has little pedigree in the enthusiast market, but they’ve done their homework. The FZ10 is great to use, has most of the features you’d want (including a terrific lens) and the image quality is outstanding for the money. It’s bigger than most other superzooms, but it’s arguably the best, and deserves huge success”.
The price I quoted, £499, is indeed correct although it is followed by an ominous ‘tbc’ which I take to mean ‘to be confirmed’ and no actual date is given for its appearance in the UK. The 16 MB card it comes with is pretty feeble for a 4 MP camera and, unless I missed it, it doesn’t seem to come with a case or battery charger at that price so for a usable package I’d guess we’re looking at well into the £500s.
John
