40d... where do i go from here!! (1 Viewer)

An interesting thread, and I think there will always be fans of both P&S cameras and DSLRs for digiscoping. In the end it really isn't so clear cut as some are stating, and there seems to be a general consensus amongst many posters on this thread that:

1. Digiscoping with a digital compact is slow/difficult to focus
2. Images are noisy at high ISOs
3. Digiscoping set-ups are heavy and unweildly to carry around.

I have been using a Fuji f30, and latterly F31 with a Swarovski scope and DCA adapter for the past 2-3 years, and maintain that all of the above statements are untrue.

1. So long as the scope is approximately focussed on the subject, the F31 snaps easily and quickly into focus most of the time. Most of the time I find digiscoping quick and easy, even fun! (otherwise I probably wouldn't bother!) though I realize that this is subjective and dependent on experience, but then so is successful bird photography with any set-up.

2. This is true with many P&S cameras, but with my Fuji I can get noise free images at ISO800, which are at least as good as my Olympus E510 DSLR can do at ISO400 (probably closer to it at ISO100 or 200). However, I am aware that many Canon/Nikon DSLRs easily beat my Olympus for high ISO performance.

3. For ease of carrying, and discounting the weight of the tripod which would be needed even for long lens work with a DSLR, my set-up is around 1.7KG, including the camera and adapter. How many Astro scopes, long lens DSLR combos can beat this for reach/price/weigh/durability/waterproofing etc.

I am not trying to compete with other posters on this issue, or state that anyone else is wrong. I have seen some of the results from Paul Corfield, Neil and several other 'experts' in their respective fields, and to be honest all of these methods are capable of producing fantastic results. To be honest, I think the individual's personal style of birding/photography is more important than what the specific kit is capable of producing when considering what to buy, as are issues of price too.

I would like to experiment more with my DSLR, and ultimately think it is capable of great results given a cooperative subject, but for ease of use, speed and ease of carrying I don't think digiscoping can be beaten for most birders who want to take good pictures of birds while out birding (given the right combination of camera/scope/adapter).

If however, you want the absolute best quality images; you don't mind lugging the extra weight or setting up in one spot and waiting; and you are prepared to go for an astro scope over a more rugged/compact spotting scope, then probably the DSLR route will serve you better. Just different strokes for different folks...

Steve

wow this thread has certainly kicked off the last couple of days!
Thanks for your input to my question!

I guess i would rather use my 40d over buying another body, and i guess i would rather buy a birding scope that can obviously double as an ideal birding scope when not taking pictures.

But having said that, the astro scope option sounds interesting. I used to be into astronomy as a kid and that option sound appealing, but are'nt those scopes huge?

Digiscoping certainly seems to split opinions! It seems many dabble with it and get frustrated with it and move to using a normal lense.

Others persevere and produce amazing results. I suppose im still confused!

Mark

Would you mind if I carried on this thread as, like you, I am interested in digiscoping and am also already using a Canon DSLR.
Where we differ is with respect to the astro scope option. I definitely want to go down the spotting scope route.
Currently, I am using an EOS 450D with the 100mm-400mm - f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM - Canon EF zoom lens. I have had some really nice results but the lack of range is beginning to frustrate me. I could get a 1.4 or 2x converter for it but that would still only give me 800mm (notwithstanding the conversion factor for it being mounted on a DSLR).
Most of the birdwatchers at my local reserve (Upton Warren) seem to use various Opticron scopes - I know that, with a T Mount and a photo adapter my camera should work well with some of their range.
My questions, to the expert masses are:
1. Given a rough budget of ~ £500 and accepting that I intend to keep using my 450D, what scope/t mount/adapter combination is recommended?
2. (This one's based on my studying of the Opticron range) Am I going to be satisfied with the end picture product given the afore-mentioned budget?

Thanks for your time...

Sy V said:

Mark

Would you mind if I carried on this thread as, like you, I am interested in digiscoping and am also already using a Canon DSLR.
Where we differ is with respect to the astro scope option. I definitely want to go down the spotting scope route.
Currently, I am using an EOS 450D with the 100mm-400mm - f/4.5-5.6 L IS USM - Canon EF zoom lens. I have had some really nice results but the lack of range is beginning to frustrate me. I could get a 1.4 or 2x converter for it but that would still only give me 800mm (notwithstanding the conversion factor for it being mounted on a DSLR).
Most of the birdwatchers at my local reserve (Upton Warren) seem to use various Opticron scopes - I know that, with a T Mount and a photo adapter my camera should work well with some of their range.
My questions, to the expert masses are:
1. Given a rough budget of ~ £500 and accepting that I intend to keep using my 450D, what scope/t mount/adapter combination is recommended?
2. (This one's based on my studying of the Opticron range) Am I going to be satisfied with the end picture product given the afore-mentioned budget?

Thanks for your time...

Click to expand...

I don't have the expertise to recommend a spotting scope but I can comment on your 100-400 lens.

Using a 1.4X teleconverter is a nice way to increase your range by 40%. You will still have a light and easy to carry setup. I recommend that you use a tripod with the teleconverter. TCs are not expensive and are IMO a must for birding.

I don't recommend a 2.0X TC with the 100-400 as the results are unaccceptably soft.

TCs are not expensive. IMO they are a must for birding. Of course, this doesn't prevent you from going to digiscoping to increase your range - this is what I did.

Good luck in your purchases
Jules

Jules

Thank you for the prompt reply and advice.
I agree that the 1.4x is the best solution to my lens/range problem and will put it on my 50th birthday present list for March!
I use a monopod with that set up as I do a fair amount of walking-up photography.
Given the amount of people you get in the hides at Upton Warren a tripod for the Camera and one for a spotting scope could make me a touch unpopular!

Sy V said:

Jules

Thank you for the prompt reply and advice.
I agree that the 1.4x is the best solution to my lens/range problem and will put it on my 50th birthday present list for March!
I use a monopod with that set up as I do a fair amount of walking-up photography.
Given the amount of people you get in the hides at Upton Warren a tripod for the Camera and one for a spotting scope could make me a touch unpopular!

Click to expand...

A monopod is fine for the 100-400 and still adequate with the TC but I prefer the tripod for the latter. When I don't bring the scope, I don't bring the tripod either and I use a monopod. Of course, once you get a spotting scope, you use only one tripod for both systems, not one for each !

So Paul you took 133 photos of birds in your garden. But how do you get on with your equipment say going round Poole Harbour, Arne reserve across the bay? What about going round Lodmoor and Radipole? How do you manage with your stuff in and out of hides? Ever been to minsmere and tried to take your stuff up in the tower hides?

I am not doubting that you can get good images with your stuff. I am just querying the practicality of it. Now I have a DSLR and a long lens, also a scope and P&S and I can hunk these round those places fine.

So as well as giving advice on the set up happen you like to provide the whole picture to help people see what is involved.

I would still like to hear the views of those with DSLR/Spotting Scope experience about their recommendations, though...

I have just purchased a 40D and intend to digiscope with it by attaching it to my Swarovski ATS80HD scope with 20-60 eyepiece by using the DCA adaptor coupled with a 38-76 lens. Tomorrow, weather permitting, I will give it a try.

Sy V said:

I would still like to hear the views of those with DSLR/Spotting Scope experience about their recommendations, though...

Click to expand...

I don't follow the Euro brand offerings but I think Nikon and Kowa offer some pretty advanced solutions.

If you have a Nikon dSLR, the ED82 straight with the dedicated FSA-L1 adapter is a no-brainer. This adapter is different from others in that it lets your Nikon camera work with the scope in full Aperture Priority mode including full Matrix Metering and Exposure compensation while the helcoid focus ring of the scope acts very much like a standard lens. Downside is a fixed 1000mm focal length at a fairly slow F13.

If you have Canon or another brand of dSLR, the Kowa 66/77/88 Prominar scopes have excellent optics with the 77/88 having a very useful 2-speed focuser. To connect a dSLR, Kowa has several adapters including the very cool PZ fl680-1000mm F8-12-ish "zoom" for prime focus-like use or the new VA3 14x wide angle for shooting afocal attached to an AF lens on the dSLR (35mm-85mm range). The benefit of the PZ is lots of shot framing flexibilty for different distances and target size. The benefit of the VA3 is AUTO FOCUS, yay! Since the VA3 has relatively low 14x power (most fixed mag spotting scope len's start at 30x on a 80mm class scope), auto-focus will lock on easier and its long 60mm eyerelief and 42deg wide angle will vignette less with a larger choice of AF camera len's.

hope this helps,
Rick

Rick,

I had not seen this Kowa TSN-VA3 before. If you have a chance to see it please give a report. It sounds interesting. It must be new and only offered on a few select locations.
Greg

Robert L Jarvis said:

So Paul you took 133 photos of birds in your garden. But how do you get on with your equipment say going round Poole Harbour, Arne reserve across the bay? What about going round Lodmoor and Radipole? How do you manage with your stuff in and out of hides? Ever been to minsmere and tried to take your stuff up in the tower hides?

I am not doubting that you can get good images with your stuff. I am just querying the practicality of it. Now I have a DSLR and a long lens, also a scope and P&S and I can hunk these round those places fine.

So as well as giving advice on the set up happen you like to provide the whole picture to help people see what is involved.

Click to expand...

I'm out most weekends in the field with my gear and for me it's really no problem at all and I know other Skywatcher users who do the same. I live by the sea so I may head to the coast or a few miles inland as the countryside is on my doorstep too. I usually take the wife and kids with me and we go for long walks which usually last around 3 hours of an afternoon. I don't sit in hides as that would bore me and especially the family, we spend most of the time walking so for the most part I'm always carrying my gear. Do you think I would do that for 3 hours if it was continually a problem? I put the scope on the tripod and hook it over my shoulder. With the tripod legs retracted or extended fully I find the weight distribution is perfect like this and it doesn't feel like I'm being weighed down or anything. It's not like it's the most massive or heavy scope ever made which is what some people seem to imply. It's what I need to get the best photos I can at any range and for me the benefits outweigh anything else. Sometimes I just carry the scope in one hand and the tripod in the other. For someone used to something lighter then the benefits might not be enough for them. If you are mainly into photography then the size/weight shouldn't be an issue as it's a fair bit less than say an equivalent 600mm Canon lens. If you are a birder only used to carrying a pair of binoculars then maybe not. All depends what you are into and what results you want and how well you want to get them.

Paul.

greg g said:

Rick,

I had not seen this Kowa TSN-VA3 before. If you have a chance to see it please give a report. It sounds interesting. It must be new and only offered on a few select locations.
Greg

Click to expand...

Hopefully I will have my new 883 and VA3 for a shootout with the Nikon kit this weekend.||

Rick

hi Rick

That would be very interesting, a summary from you. Could you also post some photos of the adapter and the setting up on the scope. The link you gave was all in Japanese so we had a leeetle problem with that. Could you also clarify in your summary how it attaches to the scope and the camera lens?

Cheers

Robert

losing AF doesnt bother you then?

Mark

Are you asking me?
If so, I'd prefer to keep it but I always used to manage in the days before AF, so no I suppose it doesn't bother me.
I am nearing a decision on my scope choice and am talking to Nigel of Lincolnshire optics who has already offered me a good priced bundle on a Celestron Ultima 100/45 spotting scope with case and the required T Ring.
I've now asked him to compare and contrast that with a similar bundle based around the Opticron ES 80 GA ED/45 - I'm waiting to see what he comes back with.

Sandpiper said:

I have just purchased a 40D and intend to digiscope with it by attaching it to my Swarovski ATS80HD scope with 20-60 eyepiece by using the DCA adaptor coupled with a 38-76 lens. Tomorrow, weather permitting, I will give it a try.

Click to expand...

Tried out this combo today in light overcast conditions and was pleased with the results. Attached pic taken at 1/50th, f4.5, ISO 800. The camera lens was set at 42mm, the scope mag. set to 30x. The image has been cropped to eradicate some vignetting (which is not evident when the scope is set to 20x mag).