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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 17:34   #3126
Richard Abr
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Three this morning at 9.15am between the East Bank and North Hide at Cley for anyone interested.
Richard
Shore Larks still present at 2.20pm - 60 metres west of north end of East Bank.
Has anyone been to see them yet?
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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 17:58   #3127
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Dear all..

I need some image for accipiter butleri. any one here can help me
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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 20:02   #3128
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I don't think that many consider the Ross's geese to be genuine, and personally I don't see it making the British list without a ringing recovery. One of the biggest problems for them is that ~ a quarter of the flock at Pensthorpe are free-flying.
Cheers, as am up in N Norfolk tomorrow (wonder why . . . ), just checking what else I should prioritise . . . I expect I'll look for Buntings at Salthouse, Geese somewhere up in that area, Richard's Shore Larks (), and maybe look in at Titchwell . .

One further q, how far (driving time) is the nearest roost for harriers etc from the Cley area?

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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 20:31   #3129
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Dan
2 Ross's Geese are at Saxlingham, best viewed from the village itself, last report of Snow were over on the Acle Straight
Lapland Bunting with Snow Buntings along the shingle ridge at Cley, where the 3 (mobile) Shorelark are also present.
I presume you mean Hen Harrier roost - nearest to Cley is Warham Greens, take the track opposite the minor road to Walsingham and walk west (if you want to)
However there is a small roost at Roydon, where the Great Grey Shrike is (was? or has it moved to Dersingham or is this a different bird - anyone?)

David

PS Richard, why are you so obsessed with the Shorelark?
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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 21:06   #3130
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However there is a small roost at Roydon, where the Great Grey Shrike is (was? or has it moved to Dersingham or is this a different bird - anyone?)
Presume its the Dersingham one that was found in autumn, was certainly reported on the same day as the Roydon one at some point...

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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 22:26   #3131
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Shore Larks

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Dan
2 Ross's Geese are at Saxlingham, best viewed from the village itself, last report of Snow were over on the Acle Straight
Lapland Bunting with Snow Buntings along the shingle ridge at Cley, where the 3 (mobile) Shorelark are also present.
I presume you mean Hen Harrier roost - nearest to Cley is Warham Greens, take the track opposite the minor road to Walsingham and walk west (if you want to)
However there is a small roost at Roydon, where the Great Grey Shrike is (was? or has it moved to Dersingham or is this a different bird - anyone?)

David

PS Richard, why are you so obsessed with the Shorelark?
Dave I'm not. Just thought than anyone who regularly birds in Norfolk and who has not got access to Birdguides or a pager might be interested. SL's are after all quite a scarce bird these days.
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Old Tuesday 29th January 2008, 22:28   #3132
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Presume its the Dersingham one that was found in autumn, was certainly reported on the same day as the Roydon one at some point...

Connor
But possibly one in the morning and one in the afterrnoon? Not too far to fly between sites? It would be nice to discover two birds. Perhaps someone could visit both sites, one after the other?

Two Golden Pheasants at Wolferton at lunchtime.
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 00:05   #3133
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Hi Pete

they're very variable birds indeed - BWP long version has a lot on variation in Barn Owl and 'Dark-breasted' Barn Owl. As i mentioned above, the underwing coverts are a good point as they should be white on Barn and coloured on 'Dark-breasted'. The Barn Owl by Warburton et al. has some useful info in it it too...

hope you got some good phalarope shots

Tim
Cheers for the info Tim - I see plenty of barn owls, but have never seen one that looked quite like the one I had on Monday. It's good to know about the underwing coverts, I know what to look for next time.

The phalarope was amazing, I've never seen one so well, just a shame I could only give it an hour. http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/sho...t/limit/recent
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 15:57   #3134
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I don't think that many consider the Ross's geese to be genuine, and personally I don't see it making the British list without a ringing recovery. One of the biggest problems for them is that ~ a quarter of the flock at Pensthorpe are free-flying.
While I agree that Ross's Goose is unlikely to make it onto the British list without a ringing recovery, I feel that more people consider some records of Ross's Goose to be genuine than this post implies.
The first winter for example was widely appreciated and has made it onto a fair few personal lists that I am aware of (my own included). Whether this bird continues to return as an adult I guess nobody can answer for certain but given goose behaviour it has to be a distinct possibility.
Meanwhile, I wonder whether the two that are present together at the moment are the two that turned up in Scotland in October? Unlike the Snow Goose, these weren't tracked along the east coast and there were no reports that I am aware of of two together between the departure from Scotland (Oct) and the arrival of two here (Jan), but I guess there is potential for them to have been on the continent in the meantime before moving to Norfolk.
Finally, is the hybrid Ross's x Pink foot in Norfolk considered to be a wild bird or an escape? If this bird was indeed wild then it suggests overlap in breeding areas of the Pink feet that winter here and Ross's Goose, thereby confirming the potential for Pink feet to act as a carrier species for Ross's Goose.

For those visiting north Norfolk, I'd suggest going to see these birds anyway and making up your own mind whether to tick them or not as we may never know for certain if wild birds do occur here. Personally, I prefer to give reasonable birds (ie fully winged, unringed and wary) the benefit of the doubt!

I'd be interested to hear how many people count Ross's Goose on their personal lists and how many do not.

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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 16:23   #3135
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Anyone know how the Cley Church Restoration fund stands? (That part comprising sparrer money, I mean...)
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 17:02   #3136
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For those visiting north Norfolk, I'd suggest going to see these birds anyway and making up your own mind whether to tick them or not as we may never know for certain if wild birds do occur here. Personally, I prefer to give reasonable birds (ie fully winged, unringed and wary) the benefit of the doubt!
Generally I'd agree with this, but as I say there are a fair few fully winged Ross's geese at Pensthorpe. The birds may seem wary as they will go up with the flock that they are in, but who knows if they'd be approachable if on their own. I know that many were happy with the first winter bird a few years ago, but I'm not sure why, can anyone explain this to me?

On another unrelated matter, the sparrow bucket has now passed the 3500 mark.
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 17:26   #3137
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Generally I'd agree with this, but as I say there are a fair few fully winged Ross's geese at Pensthorpe. The birds may seem wary as they will go up with the flock that they are in, but who knows if they'd be approachable if on their own. I know that many were happy with the first winter bird a few years ago, but I'm not sure why, can anyone explain this to me?

On another unrelated matter, the sparrow bucket has now passed the 3500 mark.
Excellent. If it stays much longer they can have a new church.
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 17:32   #3138
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Excellent. If it stays much longer they can have a new church.
could even buy another cage bird and let that escape (one that even rarer) then could then have enough money to raise the village when the floods come. lol????
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 17:56   #3139
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I'd be interested to hear how many people count Ross's Goose on their personal lists and how many do not.
Chris
Yep, count the Holkham (and other sites...) 1st winter in the winter 2001/2002 (?) on my own personal list...

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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 19:45   #3140
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Hi all,
I personally keep 3 lists! (which can become very confusing!!!)
A BOU list which, obviously, does not contain Ross's Goose, a UK400 list and a personal list - both of which contain Ross's Goose, including the current birds in a Personal Year List.

I hadn't made Chris' connection with two Ross's in Scotland before the two in Norfolk, not a coincidence me thinks. However, I don't think the hydrid goose can be used in the argument, as it is not even agreed on its parantage (has anyone ever asked Jeorn on the Id forum)

Currant Year Lists:
158 BOU
161 UK400
162 Personal
try and figure those out if you care (and no it doesn't count Golden Pheasant after comments passed earlier - but I might if I see one at Wolferton!!!)
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 20:30   #3141
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At least one Ross's Goose has been knocking around with the pinkies in Norfolk for several years now and when it first turned-up (with pinkies), was considered a good candidate for a genuine vagrant. However, the big problem with the Ross's Geese in Norfolk at the moment, is that there is about four that regularly over-summer and are obviously ferel. I think it's highly likely that these ferel birds mix with the pinkies during winter - other ferel geese often do this. To be honest, if you take a precautionary approach to listing, IMO you can't really tick em, but obviously it's up to you what you tick or not as it's your list.
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 21:17   #3142
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You are probably right Ilya but I have witnessed two (feral I would presume) regularly with a fairly large number of Greylags. For a couple of weekends they were even failrly close to Titchwell.

I haven't seen those Greylags for while, with the exception of a fair number by Fitcham last weekend (most of which were hidden).

John

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At least one Ross's Goose has been knocking around with the pinkies in Norfolk for several years now and when it first turned-up (with pinkies), was considered a good candidate for a genuine vagrant. However, the big problem with the Ross's Geese in Norfolk at the moment, is that there is about four that regularly over-summer and are obviously ferel. I think it's highly likely that these ferel birds mix with the pinkies during winter - other ferel geese often do this. To be honest, if you take a precautionary approach to listing, IMO you can't really tick em, but obviously it's up to you what you tick or not as it's your list.
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 21:43   #3143
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Whilst on the subject of lists & fowl, what is the status of the Lesser White-front at Stanhoe, Norfolk (1991) and the 1w Snow Goose at Holkham (Jan 2005) and which recent Red-breasted Geese (if any) have been deemed wild?

BTW, have enjoyed Ross's on the fields here in recent weeks but my lists are strictly BOU.

UK400? Do me a favour...

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Old Wednesday 30th January 2008, 22:50   #3144
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Thanks James, I was hoping someone was going to bite!!
Interesting though, who has just added Caspian Gull to their Norfolk list? Green-winged Teal? etc and now BOU are reviewing the status of certain ducks!!!
Anyway as has been so often discussed before, listing is very personal and you eventually count what you want (or what your peers do) and that is where the fum comes in. Birding is a hobby isn't it? It should be fun!?
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Old Thursday 31st January 2008, 08:27   #3145
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More seriously James, the 2005 Snow Gosse was written up in the bird report as wild, with the two in 06 as presumed wild (feral birds are listed separately
Last recorded Red-brested Goose was in the NW in 00/01 with all occurances listed and feral know birds listed seperately (plus last years double)
Thw Stanhoe Lesser White-front is listed in 'The Birds of Norfolk' but its credentials are questioned. The last bird thought to be wild was in Jan 97 at Holkham Freshmarsh.

Hope that helps!
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Old Thursday 31st January 2008, 09:39   #3146
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Interesting though, who has just added Caspian Gull to their Norfolk list?
Afraid I make up my own mind about what to split as well for my personal list so Caspian Gull has been on it for quite a while! Naturally I split whatever the BOU does plus a few others that seem most likely to follow. Others I'm more harsh on and will wait for officail decisions, such as Brent Geese.

Was your question suggesting that no Caspian Gulls have been officially accepted yet? If so, how many people have White-crowned Sparrow on their lists?!!!

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Old Thursday 31st January 2008, 10:12   #3147
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Quickly back to Ross's Goose, I saw one at Titchwell in the autumn with Greylags and agree that it is strange that this bird has "disappeared", suggesting it may well have tagged onto Pinkies. However, there was an escape with Greylags in East Norfolk in Oct which was still with them in Dec, so why had this bird not "jumped ship" also given the large number of Pinkies in that area? Or does it switch between carriers depending on the day, hence recent sightings in that area? One with Greylags in Essex in Dec as well so do some of our Greylags wander further south in winter?

As for Red-breasted Goose, those that turn up with Dark-bellied Brents are usually considered genuine and would be the best bet for a "safe" tick. The one at West Wittering in W. Sussex will presumably be ticked by those that see it, let's hope it stops off here on its way back north!

Lesser Whitefront is a different prospect and are rarely considered genuine in any part of the country nowadays. I count the 1w at Slimbridge a few years ago and it's perhaps safest to go for one there for a British tick, if/when one turns up in the future. There are several feral birds in Norfolk (I've seen them in the East) but I would probably count one if it arrived with Whitefronts in the autumn/winter. However, whether it would be accepted as genuine is another matter...

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Old Thursday 31st January 2008, 17:57   #3148
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Dan
2 Ross's Geese are at Saxlingham, best viewed from the village itself, last report of Snow were over on the Acle Straight
Lapland Bunting with Snow Buntings along the shingle ridge at Cley, where the 3 (mobile) Shorelark are also present.
I presume you mean Hen Harrier roost - nearest to Cley is Warham Greens, take the track opposite the minor road to Walsingham and walk west (if you want to)
However there is a small roost at Roydon, where the Great Grey Shrike is (was? or has it moved to Dersingham or is this a different bird - anyone?)

David

PS Richard, why are you so obsessed with the Shorelark?
Cheers, decided to do a bit of 'proper' birding first on my day up for the sparrow, (might not have been the best idea. . .anyway)

Got to Wolferton (as it was en route, I thought, to N Norfolk), about half an hour after first light, no G Pheasant for me, but did have a few Crossbill and Woodcock flew across the road. Walked down a path which led to Dersingham Bog and came across the GG shrike soon after, in a birch(?), at the eastern end. But it was against the light, so I went around the hill to get better views, to find it gone and a couple with a dog having just passed by . .

Met other birders soon after who were looking for it . . wonder if they connected? Saw the Roydon one was on birdguides in the afternoon . . . if flushed then that's the direction it could have gone I guess . .

Anyway, called by at Snettisham (too much walking for a quick vist though, so didn't make it all the way around), then up to Cley eventually after midday, passing some pink feet and white fronts on the way. WCS and Buntings and Shore Larks all performing, but getting gloomy at this point, so made it to Warham Greens, 2 others there already. No harriers though, possibly/probably too late. Probably offended a certain Mr B B****, of Cley, by suggesting the Ross's geese may have been slightly dubious (someone earlier had been telling me about 2 at Titchwell last year which cast doubts). Oops! And from comments on this thread, and hindsight, possibly messed up in not prioritising these more . . .

Anyway, probably need to 'earn' rare geese like these- only seen pink feet on a handful of occasions anyway, so don't deserve them yet! Seems like there should be more in the future . . .

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Old Thursday 31st January 2008, 18:49   #3149
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Glad you had a reasonable day Dan, sorry about the harriers!
I'm surprised you didn't see any Ross's Geese at Snettisham (!!) they have remained faithful to that site for years!

Good to hear from you Chris, can't argue with what you are saying. Didn't quite mean that about the Caspian's, but you make another good point on a strict BOU list

we'll have to meet up again sometime

All the best
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Old Thursday 31st January 2008, 19:29   #3150
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Nice to find a substantial Starling roost while out patching the village tonight, been displaying for the past two evenings so if any birders south of Norwich keen on seeing them they can be viewed from Hayntons lane track (south west of Long Stratton on the A140 between Norwich and Diss)

Rubbish at estimating numbers but well into four figures if not more!! couldn't see exactly where they went down cos I was watching them from a mile away while watching something else

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