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Nikon SE vs Everything. (1 Viewer)

B

black crow

Well-known member
Before I go to whatever effort it takes to find a good pair I'd like to clarify a few things first. I've heard comments from (to paraphrase) "quit going on about your EIIs and get a pair of SEs and then you'll know what good optics are " to " well they're not that much different from your EIIs" (this from an man who wrote a book on optics.)
So you can see there are differing opinions here. I believe that the SE is good but my question is, how good?

For comparison I currently own Swarovski 8x32 EL, Leica Ultravid 10x32, Kowa Genesis 8x33, Nikon EII 8x30 and 10x35.

I just spent this beautiful afternoon out with the 8x30 EII and I've concluded that they are just as good if not better overall than any of my little group of bins and the only reason I spent gobs of cash for the expensive roofs is because it's not all sunny dry bright days where I live and I don't want to worry about keeping a binocular dry during our long rainy winters. Well that and I really really like using different optics ;) But if it was all dry and sunny I could have saved my money and be using the EIIs exclusively and been beautifully happy.

Now I really like the porros for their 3D close up views. I think it's the most pleasing view in all of binoculardom, so if there is something that is a solid step better out there I'd like to own one. However after viewing all my current binoculars and seeing how close they all are optically I'm not convinced that a seriously better binocular is out there.

So can anyone tell me why I'd greatly benefit from finding and buying the Nikon SE, or am I chasing a fantasy?
 
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black crow said:
Before I go to whatever effort it takes to find a good pair I'd like to clarify a few things first. I've heard comments from (to paraphrase) "quit going on about your EIIs and get a pair of SEs and then you'll know what good optics are " to " well they're not that much different from your EIIs" (this from an man who wrote a book on optics.)
So you can see there are differing opinions here. I believe that the SE is good but my question is, how good?

For comparison I currently own Swarovski 8x32 EL, Leica Ultravid 10x32, Kowa Genesis 8x33, Nikon EII 8x30 and 10x35.

I just spent this beautiful afternoon out with the 8x30 EII and I've concluded that they are just as good if not better overall than any of my little group of bins and the only reason I spent gobs of cash for the expensive roofs is because it's not all sunny dry bright days where I live and I don't want to worry about keeping a binocular dry during our long rainy winters. Well that and I really really like using different optics ;) But if it was all dry and sunny I could have saved my money and be using the EIIs exclusively and been beautifully happy.

Now I really like the porros for their 3D close up views. I think it's the most pleasing view in all of binoculardom, so if there is something that is a solid step better out there I'd like to own one. However after viewing all my current binoculars and seeing how close they all are optically I'm not convinced that a seriously better binocular is out there.

So can anyone tell me why I'd greatly benefit from finding and buying the Nikon SE, or am I chasing a fantasy?
Click to expand...

Fantasy Island is great this time of year.

BC, may I suggest you change your question to "WILL I SEE THE DIFFERENCE?" I think only a clairvoyant ophthalmologist from Asgard could answer that for you. :cat:

Bill
 
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Hello Black Crow,

The 8x30EII and the 8x32SE are different. The Se never worked for me but EII did. Some folks find the EII too immersive, the FOV is too wide and the edges are not "razor sharp" as the SE is supposedly sharp to the edges. For sure, the SE has more armour and higher cost oculars to achieve that flat, but narrower field.

I wrote extensively about both Nikon binoculars here, post no. 24.

Unfortunately, my experience is that time trying in a binocular in a shop may not be enough to determine if it suits one's needs and preferences.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
I have both the EII and the SE. The SE was intended to be a better bin. It is more robustly constructed and has more armoring. It also differs in having longer eye relief and less curvature of field. Nevertheless, the EII is optically superb. It has a wider FOV, the central portion of which competes in quality with the narrower view of the SE despite having slightly more curvature. Otherwise, these bins have more in common than they do differences. Both have similar focusing systems and robust ocular lens yoke assemblies, which make them better than many cheaper porros. Both have poor hang. Both have stiff and slow focus that stiffens more in the cold. I love them both optically. I wouldn't use either as a primary birding bin because of the issues with hang and focus--makes them too unwieldy and slow for the kind of birding I enjoy most.

--AP
 
Well I've experienced razor sharp to the edges with the EL and it's nice but it's not the most important thing. I like the wide fov of the 8x30 and I don't mind being immersed. If all the SE has got going for it is sharper edges then I already have that.

Thanks for your link, I'll check it out.

Edit:

That was a pretty good thread on the subject. Thanks.
 
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Alexis Powell said:
I have both the EII and the SE. The SE was intended to be a better bin. It is more robustly constructed and has more armoring. It also differs in having longer eye relief and less curvature of field. Nevertheless, the EII is optically superb. It has a wider FOV, the central portion of which competes in quality with the narrower view of the SE despite having slightly more curvature. Otherwise, these bins have more in common than they do differences. Both have similar focusing systems and robust ocular lens yoke assemblies, which make them better than many cheaper porros. Both have poor hang. Both have stiff and slow focus that stiffens more in the cold. I love them both optically. I wouldn't use either as a primary birding bin because of the issues with hang and focus--makes them too unwieldy and slow for the kind of birding I enjoy most.

--AP
Click to expand...

You're correct and I forgot to mention that was the other reason I bought some alpha roofs. The focusing on them is very fast and smooth. I don't have real issue with the hang although it's surely not great. If both the EII and SE are similar at center that likely answers my biggest question. However I'd like an SE someday for some of the things you said but I won't go looking at this time so it would have to fall into my lap so to speak and then I'd grab it just because I love quality optics. I"ve had a feeling from the back and forth views that the EII competes well with the SE and the differences are minor for me.
 
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black crow said:
Before I go to whatever effort it takes to find a good pair I'd like to clarify a few things first. I've heard comments from (to paraphrase) "quit going on about your EIIs and get a pair of SEs and then you'll know what good optics are " to " well they're not that much different from your EIIs" (this from an man who wrote a book on optics.)
So you can see there are differing opinions here. I believe that the SE is good but my question is, how good?

For comparison I currently own Swarovski 8x32 EL, Leica Ultravid 10x32, Kowa Genesis 8x33, Nikon EII 8x30 and 10x35.

I just spent this beautiful afternoon out with the 8x30 EII and I've concluded that they are just as good if not better overall than any of my little group of bins and the only reason I spent gobs of cash for the expensive roofs is because it's not all sunny dry bright days where I live and I don't want to worry about keeping a binocular dry during our long rainy winters. Well that and I really really like using different optics ;) But if it was all dry and sunny I could have saved my money and be using the EIIs exclusively and been beautifully happy.

Now I really like the porros for their 3D close up views. I think it's the most pleasing view in all of binoculardom, so if there is something that is a solid step better out there I'd like to own one. However after viewing all my current binoculars and seeing how close they all are optically I'm not convinced that a seriously better binocular is out there.

So can anyone tell me why I'd greatly benefit from finding and buying the Nikon SE, or am I chasing a fantasy?
Click to expand...
I will not sell my SE's but...
Here's the definitive word on the SE/SV...
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=242005

Seriously, I know two former 8X32 SE users who will not part with their 8X32 SV's. One view is not necessarily "better" than the other, however, the optical/mechanical package award goes to the SV.
 
I can't compare to your E IIs as I never seen a pair. I know there are some on here who prefer the older E IIs to the SE and visa versa. I imagine they're close. I own 8x32 and 10x42 late model SEs, 8x42 Ultravids, 8x42 Pentax DCF, 6x30 Leupold Yosemites and 7x50 Fujinons. Me buddy has a pair of 10x42 Swaro SLC's and I ran 7x35 Leitz Trinovids for decades.

Of all those bins, my favorite every day bin is the 8x32 SE. My buddy and I both spent hours comparing his SLCs to my 10x42 SE, and we both agreed the SEs were sharper, with better colors and sharper toward the edges. I don't like the way the larger SEs carry, but the 8x32s are wonderful in the hand, and even though some don't like the way they hang, the feel fine to me.
 
Hi,

I can't really comment on the 8x32 SE as I have only used a fellow birders pair for some glimpses. I have a pair of 10x42 SE and the 8x30 E2. The SE is my 10x pair when I know I need more reach, the 8x30 is used most of the time (except when I am forced to go out in really bad weather, then I'll take a waterproof pair).

The SE is still up there with the alphas optically, although nowadays it's certainly not any more "simply the best 10x pair available" as it was described when it came out in the 90s. Nowadays there is strong competition from alpha roofs, not only in the usual compact package and waterproofing strong sides, but also optically.
Still Nikon field flattening is the best in town (but can be had in a modern package in the form of an EDG) and also baffling is very good in the Nikons. The SE is also surprisingly light and well balanced plus the focus drive just works - all the time - unlike some other alphas...
Zeiss SF wins the fov competition, Swaro has the best coatings and warranty and the Leica is for those who absolutely don't want a flat field.
I was offered a gently used 10x50 Ultravid HD in exchange for my SE by couple after they had tried that "cheap pair of Nikon porros" - the genltleman's first comment was "wow this is bright" (which it wasn't really, it was bright sunshine anyways, but the Nikon still had good contrast in difficult head on light when the Leica was washed out due to stray light) and it was also a lot lighter and less bricklike plus had the ER they needed - unlike the Leica.
I had to decline though - first of all there would have been a quarrel who got to use it and also I like it too...

The 8x30E2 is in my opinion a very fun pair with the huge immersive field of old wide angle pairs but without their terribad edge performance. If you look closely, it's certainly not alpha, but it's fairly cheap (well, my Chiba special pair was at least) and punches well above it's weight plus it has the fov - and did I mention the fov?

Joachim
 
After all these measurements, what about the aesthetics of the view? I haven't seen an E2, but tried out SEs some years ago and had an odd sense of "dullness"... even the 10x42 wasn't exactly bright, and the colors seemed a bit off somehow. (Maybe the trouble was that I was comparing with a Habicht!) Anyway, would anyone care to comment on this and is the E2 similar in this respect also?
 
I see where this thread is going, have we been down this road before? Habicht vs Nikon EII, SE......
By the way, the SE 10X is a is a perfect glass for a dark night sky, sort of like tonight here on the east coast. Light, easy to handle and a nice crisp 6 degree FOV, what is more to like.

Enjoy the view

Andy W.
 
I wasted (just kidding) another 30 minutes comparing the 8X32 SE and the 8X32 SV, both older models. I did this outside in subdued light surrounded by a forest. Everyone has a few acre lot.

Catbirds, finches, squirrels, dogs, sparrows, yield sign, shingles, bark, bird houses, feeders, bird baths, pine needles, and every other thing I looked at appeared virtually IDENTICAL in both bins. When I thought one was speeding ahead I took another look only to find my short term memory lied once again. Wait, there's detail I see in this one but not the other...oops wrong again following a second comparison. It's uncanny how good these two bins are. Considering the scarcity of SE's the SV is the logical choice. Oops, that's one too many BB's.

Then I grabbed my Leica 7X42 BR (recently upgraded to like new) and revisited what I always liked and disliked about it. Unbeatable center field, phenomenal colors, too much CA and soft edges. Just about anyone would enjoy this bin in spite of its "shortcomings". I remember when the "experts" said we were stupid to "see" CA in 7X42 (low power) bins. It was only a problem in 10X models. One look through a well corrected bin destroys that theory. Once you experience CA you are doomed to spending money or birding in total darkness. In all fairness, my Ultravid is not an HD model (as far as I can tell after the upgrade) and it is a great bin. Own more than one optic and you get spoiled, cantankerous and stupid. Oh, I did catch a Gray Catbird in the bushes in low light and the Ultravid really lit it up those cinnamon undertail coverts. The males are competing for females in earnest.

Come to think of it, it was a pretty good 30 minutes.
 
I've only spent minutes worth looking through 8x SE's and EII's, but I would say there is less difference between those in what I remember from that initial impression than I remember in comparison between the EII's and habicht. I definitely prefer the EII's over SE for the wider fov and would only own an eii among this bunch if it was waterproof.

Unless you want a porro to use in inclement weather stick with the EII's.

Don't really see much reason to have both SE and EII's other than for collection proposes or for sharing with a friend when you go out.
 
Pileatus said:
I will not sell my SE's but...
Here's the definitive word on the SE/SV...
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=242005

Seriously, I know two former 8X32 SE users who will not part with their 8X32 SV's. One view is not necessarily "better" than the other, however, the optical/mechanical package award goes to the SV.
Click to expand...

Well then I can stop now, relax and die in peace. B :):t::king:

I almost sprung for that funny Swaro Porro (rhyme;)) the Habicht but got the SV instead. I figure if I ever need glasses I'll have one binocular that has some eye relief. The SEs have the same issues for eyeglasses as the EIIs. Am I remembering that right?

Optically I really love the Ultravid 10x32 too. Nice colors that make me all emo.
 
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