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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 13:02   #26
adhoc
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Hi Chuck. As always I find your photos useful--and nice to look at! Could you please do this if it is not too much trouble? In these photos the Opticron Discovery 7x42 does not look as short as the 5.2 inches stated in the manufr.'s website. Could you please post a picture of that and the Leica Ultravid 7x42 side by side? Thanks!
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 14:09   #27
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Originally Posted by chill6x6 View Post
If I were in the market for a 7X binocular on SOMEWHAT of a budget, I'd look at the following:

Used SLC 7X42
Used/NIB Leica 7X42 Trinovid BN
Meopta B.1 Meostar 7X42
Zeiss FL 7X42


..................................................................................................


I have the Opticron 7X42. I got mine from Gordon too! I've used it a LOT over the summer....It's a good binocular for a beginner....hey, it's a $250 binocular. In no way will it compare optically to one of the others above. It's not Opticron's best work optically, either. Just saying.....

........................................................

Chuck, I made the comment in the "quote" below in Post #23 and I have added herein the 2 clarifying paragraphs below it.

"Opticron is not trying to do more with this binocular than a small 24 ounce 7x42 is capable of doing. They have given it long comfortable ER of 25mm; close focus of just under 5 feet and a 408'@1000yd FOV with a very large "sweet spot.""

What more does anyone want from $285.00 binocular if that is within ones budget? And unlike the others listed you can find this one easily and get a full warranty. It even has a lightweight Magnesium body!

There were never a lot of top of the line 7x42's to choose from and Allbino's never bothered to review them and rank them giving them a base to compare them.

Bob

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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 14:29   #28
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Zeiss T*FL 7x42, look no further and you won't look back.

I started as a world birder in 2008 with my first out-of-the-continent trip.
10 years later, I have seen my 4000th species and my binoculars have survived many days in the field, long busrides, lots of bushwhacking...

Comparing binoculars during those 10 years, I still haven't seen anything as good (for sharpness and contrast) in low light / forest / for fast focusing / easy tracking of fast flying birds / butterflies with that FOV...

So even if I wanted to buy a new pair (I told myself I 'earned' new binoculars every 10 years), I don't see any reason to upgrade them in the coming 10 years. I bought them around 1100 euro 10 years ago so cost per year is almost lower than 100 euro, not even counting the second-hand value if I would sell them (I won't).

I guess the Leica 7x42 isn't too far off, but it has less FOV and brightness, and the Swarovski is a bit heavier. Buy one of those, sell them in 10-15 years and together with the highest pleasure of viewing, the cost per year will be probably lower than any of the cheaper alternatives.
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 15:21   #29
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Bob, post 27,
We have investigated quite a few 7x42 binoculars, the results are published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor. And preparations are made to investigate some historical 7x binoculars as well.
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Old Friday 14th September 2018, 20:35   #30
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Bob, post 27,
We have investigated quite a few 7x42 binoculars, the results are published on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor. And preparations are made to investigate some historical 7x binoculars as well.
Gijs van Ginkel
Thank you Gijs,

I look forward to reading your reviews (in English of course.)

I have explored your web site and it is very professional in its set up. I would very much like to visit your House of Outdoor some day.

Unfortunately I do not know Dutch even though my ancestors came to America from Holland about 7 generations ago. My surname used to be spelled Keyser as in Pieter Dirkshoon Keyser. The "y" was changed to "i".

You might be interested to learn that my oldest son, who is an Assistant Professor of Physics at a College in Eastern Maryland competes in Judo as recreation. He is in the 210 pound weight class.

I gave him my 2010 vintage Swarovski SLC 8x30 B when he got hired. It works well with his glasses.

Cordially,

Bob
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Old Saturday 15th September 2018, 03:00   #31
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The link to Gijs's test: [Link]

The table gives the gist.

Some of it can probably be understood easily or guessed without knowing Dutch.
The following are what seems to me probably difficult for those who do not.
I used Google Translate and copy here the translation as given by them.

I take here the models, which are the
[S]warovski roof,
[L]eica Ultravid, and
[Z]eiss FL,
and the comparisons, of interest to me.

Oogschelpen -> eyecups

Randonscherpte -> Edge blur
S: Low zone of edge blur
L: Pretty spacious zone of edge blur
Z: Yes, 26% of field of view out of focus

Geschikt voor waarnemen met bril op ->
Suitable for observation with glasses on
S,L,Z: Yes

Kleurweergave -> Color rendering
S,L,Z: Good

Restanten kleurschifting ->
Remnants of color distribution ?-> Chromatic aberration
S,L,Z: Small border

Gebruikscomfort -> User comfort
S: Good
L: Very good, compact
Z: Very good

Eindoordeel -> Final judgement
S,L,Z: +++++

Last edited by adhoc : Saturday 15th September 2018 at 03:03.
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Old Saturday 15th September 2018, 07:00   #32
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If I were in the market for a 7X binocular on SOMEWHAT of a budget, I'd look at the following:

Used SLC 7X42
Used/NIB Leica 7X42 Trinovid BN
Meopta B.1 Meostar 7X42
Zeiss FL 7X42

Some of those are going to be harder to find than the others...from the Meostar on the low end to the Zeiss FL/SLC on the high end. All are nice binoculars and all could potentially be "keepers."

I have the Opticron 7X42. I got mine from Gordon too! I've used it a LOT over the summer....It's a good binocular for a beginner....hey, it's a $250 binocular. In no way will it compare optically to one of the others above. It's not Opticron's best work optically, either. Just saying.....

ALSO...Stan above makes a good case for the Canon IS binocular. If y'all can swing the ergonomics, it might just solve the "shakes" issue.
That list you gave is pretty much what I have ebay saved searches for! Mostly I'm seeing the SLC 7x42b in the 1996-2000 vintage and no trinovid 7x42s. There are some new Meopta 7x42 from Germany, but they are up at $1185.

I'll look in to the IS option too.
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Old Saturday 15th September 2018, 07:30   #33
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Thank you Gijs,

I look forward to reading your reviews (in English of course.)

I have explored your web site and it is very professional in its set up. I would very much like to visit your House of Outdoor some day.

Unfortunately I do not know Dutch even though my ancestors came to America from Holland about 7 generations ago. My surname used to be spelled Keyser as in Pieter Dirkshoon Keyser. The "y" was changed to "i".

You might be interested to learn that my oldest son, who is an Assistant Professor of Physics at a College in Eastern Maryland competes in Judo as recreation. He is in the 210 pound weight class.

I gave him my 2010 vintage Swarovski SLC 8x30 B when he got hired. It works well with his glasses.

Cordially,

Bob
Bob

Thanks for the glimpse into your Dutch past. Nice to know

House of Outdoor is owned by Jan van Daalen who is very happy indeed to act as host for Gijs's tests.

Lee
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Old Saturday 15th September 2018, 17:37   #34
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Hi Chuck. As always I find your photos useful--and nice to look at! Could you please do this if it is not too much trouble? In these photos the Opticron Discovery 7x42 does not look as short as the 5.2 inches stated in the manufr.'s website. Could you please post a picture of that and the Leica Ultravid 7x42 side by side? Thanks!
Done! And I even got out a REAL camera too!

The Discovery....I had TWO o-rings under each eyecup to hold the proper position for me with glasses since it doesn't have any eyecup stops. So, that may have contributed to it looking larger than it actually IS....

Just for fun, I weighed the binoculars in the picture..

Leica- 26.5 ounces
T4WP- 26.1 ounces
Discovery- 24.0 ounces
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Old Saturday 15th September 2018, 17:44   #35
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Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
Chuck, I made the comment in the "quote" below in Post #23 and I have added herein the 2 clarifying paragraphs below it.

"Opticron is not trying to do more with this binocular than a small 24 ounce 7x42 is capable of doing. They have given it long comfortable ER of 25mm; close focus of just under 5 feet and a 408'@1000yd FOV with a very large "sweet spot.""

What more does anyone want from $285.00 binocular if that is within ones budget? And unlike the others listed you can find this one easily and get a full warranty. It even has a lightweight Magnesium body!

There were never a lot of top of the line 7x42's to choose from and Allbino's never bothered to review them and rank them giving them a base to compare them.

Bob
Of course I can't disagree with any of that. If you want a 7X42 roof there's the Discovery then, well...maybe the Meopta then the Leica and that's about it. So a LOT of difference in the price.

The only fly in the Discovery's ointment for ME is....have you looked thru 8X42 T4WP? I made a mistake one day with both the T4WP and the Discovery in the truck....I got out to go birding and picked up what I THOUGHT was the Discovery...and was like very impressed! About midways I saw it was the T4WP that I had picked up.....which is LESS expensive and optically I could almost immediately tell a difference.. Not exactly apples to apples but I'm sure you get my point....
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Old Saturday 15th September 2018, 23:19   #36
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Of course I can't disagree with any of that. If you want a 7X42 roof there's the Discovery then, well...maybe the Meopta then the Leica and that's about it. So a LOT of difference in the price.

The only fly in the Discovery's ointment for ME is....have you looked thru 8X42 T4WP? I made a mistake one day with both the T4WP and the Discovery in the truck....I got out to go birding and picked up what I THOUGHT was the Discovery...and was like very impressed! About midways I saw it was the T4WP that I had picked up.....which is LESS expensive and optically I could almost immediately tell a difference.. Not exactly apples to apples but I'm sure you get my point....
Hi Chuck,

Well one can't argue with personal satisfaction and I won't try.

The T4 also doesn't try to do more than a small 8x42 was designed to do either but they are designed differently than the Discoverys.

The price difference between them is $56.00 and I will try to explain that.

The difference in cost of the T4s with the Discovery starts with the binocular's frames.

The 7x42 and 8x42 Discovery are lighter in weight (2 ounces) than the T4 because they have a more expensive magnesium frame.

On other pertinent matters the Discoverys also have more IPD available for use and a 33' wider FOV in the 7x42 and an18' wider FOV in the 8x42 than the T4. The Discovery also has longer E.R. in both cases.

Bob
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 02:59   #37
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Chuck, thank you for obliging as usual! Thanks for the fine photo, and also the weight figures (which I take it are as shown, without strap and lens covers).

Those rings at the eyecups make a big difference. I did see something was up (no pun!) and thought I could mentally adjust for it but now see I had not done so enough. The height difference vs Leica is easily noticeable in your photo, and in fact looks more than the stated 5.2 vs 5.6 inches. Sorry also to put you through the hassle of removing and refitting the rings!

Do you mind explaining this a bit: "I've used it a LOT over the summer...It's a good binocular for a beginner...hey, it's a $250 binocular. In no way will it compare optically to one of the others above. It's not Opticron's best work optically, either. Just saying..." Why despite those negatives did you use it a lot? Especially why this instead of the Leica? Easier handling? Security situations where one would rather risk a much less costly binocular? Thanks. I had virtually decided on the Opticron vs the Leica when you spoil my plans!

As for the T4 mistake episode above: amateur psychology is a tricky thing, but maybe what impressed you was the easier making out of detail due to 8x while you were thinking of though not seeing the greater depth!

PS. Pressing you a bit further: how would it place in this test? A few months back you wrote of the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42: "I've never gone birding with this binocular and said 'I wish I had brought my ______ binocular instead.'" Were there times, during this possibly limited experience with the Discovery, that you wished for, say, the Ultravid? Thanks!

Last edited by adhoc : Monday 17th September 2018 at 02:13.
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 14:23   #38
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You want an excellent and extremely durable 7x42 with close focus? I think the Zeiss 7x42 FL is the obvious answer. It has a very easy and wide view, good feel in the hands, and the close focus is quite good for a bin in this category. Not only does it focus down to 6 feet, but just as importantly, the focus ratio is rapid and precise, which allows for combination butterflying+birding. Other 7x42 do not focus as close and/or they have very slow close focus which hinders its utility.

That said, if hand shake is a big problem, image stabilization may be the best solution and may supersede close focus concerns.

--AP
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 17:01   #39
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Originally Posted by ceasar View Post
Thank you Gijs,

I look forward to reading your reviews (in English of course.)

I have explored your web site and it is very professional in its set up. I would very much like to visit your House of Outdoor some day.

Unfortunately I do not know Dutch even though my ancestors came to America from Holland about 7 generations ago. My surname used to be spelled Keyser as in Pieter Dirkshoon Keyser. The "y" was changed to "i".

You might be interested to learn that my oldest son, who is an Assistant Professor of Physics at a College in Eastern Maryland competes in Judo as recreation. He is in the 210 pound weight class.

I gave him my 2010 vintage Swarovski SLC 8x30 B when he got hired. It works well with his glasses.

Cordially,

Bob
Here

http://translate.google.com/translat...-FEBR-2015.pdf
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 17:44   #40
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Maico,

Thank you very much for the translation of Gijs reviews of the 7x42s. I will read it with great interest, as I am sure many other 7x42 fans will.

I have the SLC and the Victory.

Bob
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 18:57   #41
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Maico,

Thank you very much for the translation of Gijs reviews of the 7x42s. I will read it with great interest, as I am sure many other 7x42 fans will.

I have the SLC and the Victory.

Bob
Bob, if you install the google translate app. into your browser bar you can translate websites at the click of a button.
Or just copy and paste into google translate for shorter paragraphs
https://translate.google.co.uk/?hl=en&tab=wT

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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 20:16   #42
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You want an excellent and extremely durable 7x42 with close focus? I think the Zeiss 7x42 FL is the obvious answer. It has a very easy and wide view, good feel in the hands, and the close focus is quite good for a bin in this category. Not only does it focus down to 6 feet, but just as importantly, the focus ratio is rapid and precise, which allows for combination butterflying+birding. Other 7x42 do not focus as close and/or they have very slow close focus which hinders its utility.

That said, if hand shake is a big problem, image stabilization may be the best solution and may supersede close focus concerns.

--AP
Where do you get one though? I haven't seen one for sale anywhere for a long time. I think everybody is hanging on to theirs. Here is a good review from scopeviews.

http://scopeviews.co.uk/Zeiss7x42FL.htm
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 23:07   #43
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Where do you get one though? I haven't seen one for sale anywhere for a long time. I think everybody is hanging on to theirs. Here is a good review from scopeviews.

http://scopeviews.co.uk/Zeiss7x42FL.htm
It is a real problem finding one of these older Alpha 7x42s for sale.

Once the announcement came from the manufacturer that they were being discontinued they disappeared from the market very quickly. And the fact that the 7x42 format was not real popular with birders to begin with doesn't help matters in finding one for sale.

Bob
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Old Sunday 16th September 2018, 23:50   #44
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You can sometimes find a 7x42 Nikon EDG 2 or a 7x42 Trinovid BN but the 7x42 Zeiss FL is rarer than a California Virgin.

Last edited by [email protected] : Monday 17th September 2018 at 00:00.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 03:54   #45
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You can sometimes find a 7x42 Nikon EDG 2 or a 7x42 Trinovid BN but the 7x42 Zeiss FL is rarer than a California Virgin.
There are plenty of ebay imports Nikon 7x42 edg for $1700 or so, though I cannot say I'm positive about EDG I or EDG II as I don't remember the specific model numbers.

There are also a few SLC 7x42b's from 1996 - 2000 vintage for $1200.

I saw a Swaro SLCneu 7x30 on ebay, after it sold. I think it was listed for all of 27 seconds or so (I'm exaggerating for effect, but it didn't stay listed for long).

Otherwise, there's Trinovid BA, but not BN's in 7x, at least that I've seen over the last month. Same with Zeiss or SLCneu.

There is an ebay Ultravid HD 7x42 for $1300 import.

Marc

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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 05:04   #46
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There are plenty of ebay imports Nikon 7x42 edg for $1700 or so, though I cannot say I'm positive about EDG I or EDG II as I don't remember the specific model numbers.

There are also a few SLC 7x42b's from 1996 - 2000 vintage for $1200.

I saw a Swaro SLCneu 7x30 on ebay, after it sold. I think it was listed for all of 27 seconds or so (I'm exaggerating for effect, but it didn't stay listed for long).

Otherwise, there's Trinovid BA, but not BN's in 7x, at least that I've seen over the last month. Same with Zeiss or SLCneu.

There is an ebay Ultravid HD 7x42 for $1300 import.

Marc

Marc
All you have to remember about the double hinged EDG I is do not buy one!. The EDG I was the the first edition and had double hinges and was replaced with the single hinged EDG II. (Its optics were excellent if you are feeling adventurous--just make sure that the focus wheel works OK. Its corrugated rubber covering would stretch and interfere with the focusing.)

Any EDG I you find for sale is probably refurbished and will only have Nikons 90 day warranty. Its original covering would bubble and come free after being used for a while. There were also problems with the focus wheels covering coming loose.

These problems were resolved with the single hinged EDG II

Bob

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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 12:35   #47
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Chuck, thank you for obliging as usual! Thanks for the fine photo, and also the weight figures (which I take it are as shown, without strap and lens covers).

Those rings at the eyecups make a big difference. I did see something was up (no pun!) and thought I could mentally adjust for it but now see I had not done so enough. The height difference vs Leica is easily noticeable in your photo, and in fact looks more than the stated 5.2 vs 5.6 inches. Sorry also to put you through the hassle of removing and refitting the rings!

Do you mind explaining this a bit: "I've used it a LOT over the summer...It's a good binocular for a beginner...hey, it's a $250 binocular. In no way will it compare optically to one of the others above. It's not Opticron's best work optically, either. Just saying..." Why despite those negatives did you use it a lot? Especially why this instead of the Leica? Easier handling? Security situations where one would rather risk a much less costly binocular? Thanks. I had virtually decided on the Opticron vs the Leica when you spoil my plans!

As for the T4 mistake episode above: amateur psychology is a tricky thing, but maybe what impressed you was the easier making out of detail due to 8x while you were thinking of though not seeing the greater depth!

PS. Pressing you a bit further: how would it place in this test? A few months back you wrote of the Nikon Monarch HG 8x42: "I've never gone birding with this binocular and said 'I wish I had brought my ______ binocular instead.'" Were there times, during this possibly limited experience with the Discovery, that you wished for, say, the Ultravid? Thanks!
So why did I use the Discovery 7X42 a lot? In particular THIS summer I've had to stay close to home because of work....and being between migrations the odds of me seeing a bird I haven't seen aren't that good although I'd be happy to see one! So I enjoy playing around with different binoculars....otherwise I certainly would be out with the UVHD+ 7X42 OR the SV 8X32, et al. ALSO....I'm not one to pick up a binocular for 20 minutes and form an opinion about it....I spend some time with it, different days, different conditions, different spots, compared to different binoculars, etc and I really WANTED to have an opinion of this binocular. LASTLY....it's a 7X42 roof which is probably my favorite format and there aren't that many, especially new ones. Rest assured when I have formed an option about a binocular....I didn't come up with it overnight, not via the internet, and I have compared it to its peers. BTW....I compared the Discovery to the only other AND least expensive(I didn't see any need to compare it to the FL 7X42/UVHD+) 7X42 roofs I have(Triovid BN/Meopta B.1) as well as two other Opticrons, the T4 Trailfinder and the Verano BGA HD. That Verano BTW...a little short on FOV but otherwise a VERY nice binocular!

7X42 vs. 8X42/Discovery vs. T4..... Nah....it wasn't 7X vs. 8X difference. I've tried to see THAT with FL 7X/8X, UVHD+ 7X/8X, etc. Really practically ZERO difference. 7X detail may actually be BETTER since it's a steadier image. Certainly a difference in optics.

"I wish I had brought my...." In this case the answer is yes! In fact while looking for a lone wood stork in a group of about 200 great egrets I actually swapped to the Conquest HD 8X32s I keep in my car....I haven't done that many times. The difference was easy to see. Yeah, yeah I KNOW it's a more expensive binocular but there was more difference than there should be IMO.

Don't get me wrong... ..the Discovery has it's merits and I think it would be fine for beginner....I might warm up to it a little more but I really can't see that happening at this point. This is one binocular I WANTED to like more than I do.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 12:44   #48
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There are plenty of ebay imports Nikon 7x42 edg for $1700 or so, though I cannot say I'm positive about EDG I or EDG II as I don't remember the specific model numbers.

There are also a few SLC 7x42b's from 1996 - 2000 vintage for $1200.

I saw a Swaro SLCneu 7x30 on ebay, after it sold. I think it was listed for all of 27 seconds or so (I'm exaggerating for effect, but it didn't stay listed for long).

Otherwise, there's Trinovid BA, but not BN's in 7x, at least that I've seen over the last month. Same with Zeiss or SLCneu.

There is an ebay Ultravid HD 7x42 for $1300 import.

Marc

Marc
ANY FL 7X42 you find will be fine.
ANY Ultravid 7X42 will be fine although as mentioned it won't have a very close focus. Same for a Trinovid BN.
SLC 7X42...MINE is a 2008...CERTAINLY no worries with that year! It's CF isn't that close either, just measured it and it's about 11 ft.
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 13:21   #49
Gijs van Ginkel
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A saw a number of different (used) top quality 7x42's in the shop of House of Outdoor in The Netherlands, so you can give it a try (I am not a share holder of the shop, but a regular visitor).
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Old Monday 17th September 2018, 13:41   #50
adhoc
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Thank you very much Chuck for a thorough and patient answer as usual. So...more thinking ahead...size and price of Discovery vs optical quality of Ultravid! I shall need my 7x only for depth, which means mostly woodland, unlike in your Conquest swap episode, so here the Discovery option survives... Importantly for me, I--not able to try out anything--am able to form an increasingly better idea of the Discovery, from the reviews by Lee, David, and now you...
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