Larry Sweetland
Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
It could be a slippery slope Richie. You might find yourself tempted to sneak into zoos, make holes in the fences..... and then tick 'em! 
-
Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.
Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
Can Escapees Be Counted As A Tick? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter RichieTwitchy
- Start date
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Last person to try that, got eaten by a tiger, if I remember rightly :eat:It could be a slippery slope Richie. You might find yourself tempted to sneak into zoos, make holes in the fences..... and then tick 'em!
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Larry Sweetland
Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
Sadly enough, birding's already starting to feel more and more like that for me, as you visit each shrinking protected forest patch, to see the last few of this-that-and-the-other. :-C
RichieTwitchy
YNWA
@Larry Sweetland - ha ha I think I'll take andyadcock's advice and stick to my local pet shop
And yes it is a sad and terrible thing that man has destroyed so much habitat that is to the detriment of our beautiful wildlife.I think a lot of this destruction wasn't thought through enough as to the common sense fact that if you affect one animal's life-style then that has a knock-on effect to many many more other species.
I do think though that there is a wind of change and things are slowly - albeit very slowly - starting to change and now that more people are made aware of the state of our wildlife then maybe there's hope.
I certainly hope so as it's not 'our' world - it's every living things and they all have a right to life.
And yes it is a sad and terrible thing that man has destroyed so much habitat that is to the detriment of our beautiful wildlife.I think a lot of this destruction wasn't thought through enough as to the common sense fact that if you affect one animal's life-style then that has a knock-on effect to many many more other species.
I do think though that there is a wind of change and things are slowly - albeit very slowly - starting to change and now that more people are made aware of the state of our wildlife then maybe there's hope.
I certainly hope so as it's not 'our' world - it's every living things and they all have a right to life.
Ian Lewis
aka Gryllo
I use Wildlife Recorder to record all my sightings and birds can be tagged as escapes. So I record where and when I see escapes then exclude them from my county, UK and world lists by not including that category in the list parameters.
I can then create an escapes list if I should so wish.
Of course a more vexed question is when do we know if a bird is an escape - budgie & Harris' Hawk obviously but there are still those who claim the Radipole Hooded Merganser is wild and when can we count the Salisbury Plain Great Bustards?
Ian (who counts neither of those two examples)
I can then create an escapes list if I should so wish.
Of course a more vexed question is when do we know if a bird is an escape - budgie & Harris' Hawk obviously but there are still those who claim the Radipole Hooded Merganser is wild and when can we count the Salisbury Plain Great Bustards?
Ian (who counts neither of those two examples)
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
For one thing as you probably know, they're not escapes. There are listing rules around introductions, so many self sustaining generations I believe which in some species that take 5-7 years to reach sexual maturity, (e.g White-tailed Eagle) can be a long time.
A
What about a Wild White Stork that gets injured in Poland; has rehab in Norfolk and then escapes?? No prizes for guessing what I saw on the weekendo
Rich
Rich
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
What about a Wild White Stork that gets injured in Poland; has rehab in Norfolk and then escapes?? No prizes for guessing what I saw on the weekendo
Rich
Under our rules I'd probably say no on two fronts.
1 It was artificially sustained
2 It didn't get there naturally
A
Spoil sport:-O:-O
wolfbirder
Well-known member
I keep a list of birds I've seen in zoos , it's actually enjoyable trying to get good views of the various species in the tropical house st Chester Zoo.
I also twitched a Golden Eagle of known captive origin, in Wales, that had been living wild for three years. As good as a wild-born bird forme but not on my list of course.
I also twitched a Golden Eagle of known captive origin, in Wales, that had been living wild for three years. As good as a wild-born bird forme but not on my list of course.
kb57
Well-known member
What seems to be a grey area is with what we in UK term 'Category C' species, i.e. self-sustaining populations derived from introductions, in circumstances where these may be supplemented by additional escapes or recent introductions which are not self-sustaining.
I'm thinking in particular of the Egyptian geese and Mandarins I saw in Kensington Gardens at the weekend, along with little owl and ring-necked parakeet. The owl and parakeet - no problem, but the waterfowl bothered me, with the presence of collections in nearby parks meaning they could be recent escapes. I've erred on the side of caution and not added them to my year list.
Similarly, I didn't count the lammergeier which I saw in the French Alps earlier this year - the points made earlier in the thread about generation time I think are still valid here. But I did enjoy seeing it! I would suggest the east of Scotland white-tailed eagle population from the more recent Fife introductions is in a similar position.
Of course it is valid and indeed important to record the presence of introductions and escapes, whether deliberate conservation schemes or potentially invasive species. I remember in my youth we used to ignore feral pigeons whilst happily ticking pheasants, which isn't at all logical!
I'm thinking in particular of the Egyptian geese and Mandarins I saw in Kensington Gardens at the weekend, along with little owl and ring-necked parakeet. The owl and parakeet - no problem, but the waterfowl bothered me, with the presence of collections in nearby parks meaning they could be recent escapes. I've erred on the side of caution and not added them to my year list.
Similarly, I didn't count the lammergeier which I saw in the French Alps earlier this year - the points made earlier in the thread about generation time I think are still valid here. But I did enjoy seeing it! I would suggest the east of Scotland white-tailed eagle population from the more recent Fife introductions is in a similar position.
Of course it is valid and indeed important to record the presence of introductions and escapes, whether deliberate conservation schemes or potentially invasive species. I remember in my youth we used to ignore feral pigeons whilst happily ticking pheasants, which isn't at all logical!
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Surely it's the owl and the pussycat?
:-OI'd go ahead and tick the Mandarin Duck, western London area is their UK stronghold. I'd agree Egyptian Geese there are a bit dodgy though.
kb57
Well-known member
Surely it's the owl and the pussycat?
I was obviously subconsciously influenced by the rhyme when I said the owl and the parakeet!
Seem to recall years back that Virginia Water was the place for Mandarin - probably where I saw my first - I need all the help I can get with my less than impressive year list, so I may well take your advice!
Mysticete
Well-known member
I always treat reintroductions of native species very differently from escaped exotics. The latter are often accidental and may not be something that fits in with the local environment. The former is a deliberate attempt to aid conservation and grow the population. I wouldn't hesitate to count free-roaming reintroduced species on a list, while I would be with some random escaped waterfowl/finch.
wcb
Mike Firth
I've seen Egyptian geese with young in various parts of west London recently (some of them slightly too close to Barnes WWT for comfort) - should any of these count?Surely it's the owl and the pussycat?
I'd go ahead and tick the Mandarin Duck, western London area is their UK stronghold. I'd agree Egyptian Geese there are a bit dodgy though.
Speaking of the WWT, I was in the Peacock Tower some years back next to someone who was contemplating ticking a bar-headed goose on the assumption that it "probably" came from the established(?) feral Dutch population. I don't have a list as such, but wouldn't count it any more than the ringed teals I've seen on the rivers Kennet and Avon.
Andy Adcock
Worst person on Birdforum
Last edited:
There are hundreds of Egyptian Geese along the Thames valley- I have seen post breeding flocks of over 200 so you can tick them as a Cat C species. I'm pretty sure that they have never been part of the WWT collection at Barnes so any there are "wild".
The Bar-headed Goose on the other hand...
kb57
Well-known member
Thames Valley is one thing...I'm just not so sure about 'tame' birds in Kensington Gardens, although they do breed...due to proximity of wildfowl collections in St. James's Park and (I think?) Regent's Park. Not saying tameness is a disqualifying factor on its own, othwerwise you couldn't count the ridiculously tame grey herons!
