Vietnam (north and south) (1 Viewer)

Hi there, I will be visiting Vietnam for 14 days in either March or April next year and am looking for some information and advice on birding sites. Now this is going to be a bit of a family holiday so I won't have masses of time to go solely birding although I'm hoping I can weasel a few days out to myself!

First part of the holiday we will be based near or just outside of Hanoi (visiting Halong Bay, Ninh binh). Does anyone know of any good birding sites in the area that are relatively close? (Within a couple of hours at max). 2nd part of the holiday we will probably be based in Dalat which I have heard is good for endemics and the like. What are the best sites to bird around this area?

I'm also looking for information on any local or visiting birders who would be willing to show me around the respective areas if there are any (I don't mind paying a small fee) as I probably won't be able to afford a professional guide.

Cheers!

Tam Dao is a couple of hours from Hanoi and Cuc Phuong is close to Ninh Bin. I haven't been to CP but I believe there are guides you can hire there.

Dalat has great birds but sites are quite far-flung and it's quite hard to get around unless you have a car or scooter. Good sites are Datanla Falls (get there VERY early before the crowds arrive), the Lang Bian summit trail (you might want to take a jeep up to the head of the trail - again early morning is best) and the forest around the lake of Ho Tuyen Lam (the best sites are at the opposite end from the large temple at the top of the cable car). Ta Nung used to be wonderful but has been turned into a grotesque eco-resort full of camera-clicking tourists. Much of the habitat seems to be intact, so again an early morning visit might pay off.

To stand much chance of seeing the endemics, you would be better off engaging a guide. I know one who works together with a local driver-guide, who would be able to take you to hides they've set up on Bi Doup, some way out of Dalat, plus where to find good species around Tuyen Lam. This is your best chance of seeing species like Collared Laughingthrush. He would probably charge you around $200 a day - perhaps less - but you wouldn't see half the species without him that you would with him.

andyb39 said:

Tam Dao is a couple of hours from Hanoi and Cuc Phuong is close to Ninh Bin. I haven't been to CP but I believe there are guides you can hire there.

Dalat has great birds but sites are quite far-flung and it's quite hard to get around unless you have a car or scooter. Good sites are Datanla Falls (get there VERY early before the crowds arrive), the Lang Bian summit trail (you might want to take a jeep up to the head of the trail - again early morning is best) and the forest around the lake of Ho Tuyen Lam (the best sites are at the opposite end from the large temple at the top of the cable car). Ta Nung used to be wonderful but has been turned into a grotesque eco-resort full of camera-clicking tourists. Much of the habitat seems to be intact, so again an early morning visit might pay off.

To stand much chance of seeing the endemics, you would be better off engaging a guide. I know one who works together with a local driver-guide, who would be able to take you to hides they've set up on Bi Doup, some way out of Dalat, plus where to find good species around Tuyen Lam. This is your best chance of seeing species like Collared Laughingthrush. He would probably charge you around $200 a day - perhaps less - but you wouldn't see half the species without him that you would with him.

Click to expand...

Okay thank you very much for your help! Would you be able to pm me the guides information? I'd be interested in hiring them for a day if I can afford it. Collared Laughingthrush would be superb to see! Do you know if local taxis would be able to take me to a few places if I go on solo outings around Dalat? I've heard that they are cheap if metered? Honestly I am a little hesitant to hire a scooter having experienced the roads in Asia before...

Hi,
a few observations.

Tam Dao is close to Hanoi and can be got to by public transport with perserverance, and it has great birds but there have been access problems to the best trail at least until April this year. Without access to this area you are limited to one relatively small, somewhat hit and miss area.

Cuc Phuong NP is fairly close to Hanoi and has good birds in the central part of the NP (Bong substation), although the accommodation is fairly ropey here. But the easier to access HQ area (with better accommodation) around the park entrance isn't great for birds... (though I did see White-winged Magpie there)

Van Long nature reserve is pretty close to Cuc Phuong and can fairly easily be combined, it has a good range of wetland species and also the mega rare Delacour's Langur.

Main sites round Dalat city (Tanung, Mt Langbiang and west side of Ho Tuyen Lam lake near the clay tunnels) are all easily and cheaply done by taxi. The only real complication is getting the jeep to the trailhead at Langbiang which saves a long, steep uphill walk, but involves quite a bit more expense and may take 20 minutes or so to arrange if you arrive at dawn.

Tanung was still (in March this year) pretty much the best birding site I visited in Vietnam despite the development. But you need to get there early as Andy says.

A guide will undoubtedly help with some difficult species, and some logistically difficult sites, but you can rack up a big list without one also if you prefer. Of the Vietnamese endemics present in Dalat I saw Grey-crowned Crocias, Vietnamese Cutia, Dalat Shrike-babbler, Vietnamese Greenfinch and Black-crowned Fulvetta, plus a good range of the indochinese regional endemics that occur. But I did miss both the endemic Laughingthrushes. Collared should be possible at Mt Langbiang but Orange-breasted is probably now only possible with a guide, or a longer trip from Dalat.

let me know if you have any specific questions.

cheers,
James

James Lowther said:

Hi,
a few observations.

Tam Dao is close to Hanoi and can be got to by public transport with perserverance, and it has great birds but there have been access problems to the best trail at least until April this year. Without access to this area you are limited to one relatively small, somewhat hit and miss area.

Cuc Phuong NP is fairly close to Hanoi and has good birds in the central part of the NP (Bong substation), although the accommodation is fairly ropey here. But the easier to access HQ area (with better accommodation) around the park entrance isn't great for birds... (though I did see White-winged Magpie there)

Van Long nature reserve is pretty close to Cuc Phuong and can fairly easily be combined, it has a good range of wetland species and also the mega rare Delacour's Langur.

Main sites round Dalat city (Tanung, Mt Langbiang and west side of Ho Tuyen Lam lake near the clay tunnels) are all easily and cheaply done by taxi. The only real complication is getting the jeep to the trailhead at Langbiang which saves a long, steep uphill walk, but involves quite a bit more expense and may take 20 minutes or so to arrange if you arrive at dawn.

Tanung was still (in March this year) pretty much the best birding site I visited in Vietnam despite the development. But you need to get there early as Andy says.

A guide will undoubtedly help with some difficult species, and some logistically difficult sites, but you can rack up a big list without one also if you prefer. Of the Vietnamese endemics present in Dalat I saw Grey-crowned Crocias, Vietnamese Cutia, Dalat Shrike-babbler, Vietnamese Greenfinch and Black-crowned Fulvetta, plus a good range of the indochinese regional endemics that occur. But I did miss both the endemic Laughingthrushes. Collared should be possible at Mt Langbiang but Orange-breasted is probably now only possible with a guide, or a longer trip from Dalat.

let me know if you have any specific questions.

cheers,
James

Click to expand...

Okay great, thank you for your help! I'm definitely interested in going to Cuc Phuong as well, do you know if its possible to make it a day trip to Bong substation area? I imagine my parents will be tagging along and won't fancy staying in the actual park. I'm thinking we might try and find somewhere to stay just outside the Ninh Binh area as this gives us plenty of cycling routes and easy access to the parks as well.

Dalat sounds perfect! I've no qualms jumping in a taxi or getting up early. Do you know if it is easy to get a private driver in Vietnam? Just as something to look at. We had a private driver take us around Sri Lanka at a low cost which was mighty handy.

Last question, do you know where I could find information on birding guides in Dalat/the North? So far I've only seen one or two on birdingpal.

Thanks!

Agree very much with what has been said so far.

Van Long is an easy afternoon trip for all the familiy from Ninh Binh, you do a small boating trip to the rocks where you can see the langurs (best from ca. 3 pm) and some water birds.

Some other options:
- Ba Vi can be done as a day trip from Hanoi. Be early and avoid weekends. You can arrange a taxi to drive you from Hanoi straight to the summit, bird around there, and then walk down the road to the restaurants.
- Hanoi itself is not bad for migration, so if you stay in Hanoi, you can have early morning visits to the Botantical Gardens, the Red River islands or somewhere near the river.
- From Ninh Binh, you can visit the coastal Xuan Thuy national park. Waders and water birds in the shrimp pond near the park HQ, and excellent for the migration on the islands off shore. The first can be done in a day from e.g. Ninh Binh, but going to the islands needs more time.
- In case you go to Hoi An (a typical tourist hot spot), it is not bad for birds if you ride a bicycle over the ricefields and near the lagoons.
- Cat Tien National Park is certainly the best birding site in Vietnam (together with Dalat) and specactular enough to be enjoyable also for non-birders for 2 days or so.

Hi again. Perhaps I was exaggerating when I said it was a little difficult to get around Dalat if you don't have your own transport. You can of course get to these places, although it's not always easy to get a ride back. Datanla is perhaps the easiest to reach and I'd recommend it for a good selection of non-endemic species early in the morning. I think though that if you're on a family holiday and time is limited, it's not that easy to get your timing right, or to get to exactly the right place. On my first visit to Ta Nung I dipped on Crocias, which were still calling but had stopped showing, because I arrived half-an-hour too late. The second time I visited I made sure I got there at dawn and enjoyed amazing eye-level views. When I visited Tuyen Lam, I got a taxi to Da Thien at the end of the road on the eastern side but couldn't find the trail to the deciduous woods where the best birds are and had to be content with birding in the pine woods. It's better to try on the western side near a picnic site near the end of the road, but I can't be sure of the exact location and am not sure where the "clay tunnels" that James mentions are. So sometimes you need a bit of local knowledge.

You could still see, as I did, some of the specialities James mentions, and others, on your own. I would say, though that you have virtually no chance of seeing either Collared or Orange-breasted Laughingthrush without a guide. I couldn't get a squeak out of Collared at Lang Bian. My guide has set up photographic hides at Bi Doup, around 30 km from Dalat where you can see both if you're lucky, plus a realistic chance of seeing Indochinese Wren-babbler, Blue Pitta at the right time of year, Rusty-naped Pitta and Dark-sided Thrush with a supporting cast of White-cheeked Laughingthrush, Snowy-browed Flycatcher, Large Niltava, White-tailed Robin, White-browed Scimitar-babbler, Grey-bellied Tesia, Lesser Shortwing, Black-crowned Fulvetta , Black-headed Parrotbill and Rufous-gorgeted Flycatcher. You could see some of the latter species on your own around Dalat (for example I saw the Shortwing, the Tesia and the Fulvetta on the Lang Bian trail) but not the goodies. The hides are tucked away and it would be impossible for me to describe where they are even if I wanted to.

andyb39 said:

I think though that if you're on a family holiday and time is limited, it's not that easy to get your timing right, or to get to exactly the right place.

Click to expand...

I think the best strategy for combining birding with family in Dalat is to do half-day birding in the morning and spend the afternoon with the family. All Ta Nung, Tuyen Lam (western side) and Lang Bian can be done in a morning (back in town by 1 pm or so) when starting early and knowing where to go. Of course you should not loose time with searching for the locations, so either you take a guide or you do your research before and know exactly where you go. You should have coordinates on your phone or so to tell the drivers where to go, because explaining may be difficult (at least for Tuyen Lam; Lang Bian and Ta Nung should be easy).

I have put together a couple of maps a while ago, which still may be helpful :

- Overview: https://sites.google.com/site/dalatbirding/dalat-sites
- Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=11.810889772657397,108.38233000000002&z=10
- Dalat map, pdf: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...nxkYWxhdGJpcmRpbmd8Z3g6NmUzMzNhNThjYjU3NDBkYQ
- Tuyen Lam map, pdf (western side access not yet included): https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...nxkYWxhdGJpcmRpbmd8Z3g6M2Q0MGNkODZmOTEwMDM0NA

ok,

west ho tuyen lam

clay tunnels are a big tourist trap here (put coordinates into google maps):-

11.883380, 108.410338

you can easily get a taxi here and also pick one up from the car park after you are finished as there are many tourists here

walking along the minor gravel road starting here

11.883537, 108.408510

signposted "Suoi Tia" i think, takes you into decent habitat.

There are two small paths off to the right of this road

the first approx here

11.881586, 108.406029

goes steeply upwards into broadleaved forest

the second around here

11.879831, 108.408828

goes through open pine forest

this whole area is really excellent

cheers,
James

James Lowther said:

ok,

west ho tuyen lam
There are two small paths off to the right of this road

the first approx here

11.881586, 108.406029

goes steeply upwards into broadleaved forest

the second around here

11.879831, 108.408828

goes through open pine forest

this whole area is really excellent

cheers,
James

Click to expand...

:t:

Great, I added those points to my google map linked above.

James Lowther said:

ok,

west ho tuyen lam

clay tunnels are a big tourist trap here (put coordinates into google maps):-

11.883380, 108.410338

you can easily get a taxi here and also pick one up from the car park after you are finished as there are many tourists here

walking along the minor gravel road starting here

11.883537, 108.408510

signposted "Suoi Tia" i think, takes you into decent habitat.

There are two small paths off to the right of this road

the first approx here

11.881586, 108.406029

goes steeply upwards into broadleaved forest

the second around here

11.879831, 108.408828

goes through open pine forest

this whole area is really excellent

cheers,
James

Click to expand...

Thanks James. I think I did see the "clay tunnels" fun park place but didn't realise it at the time. Is the gravel road the one signposted "Secret Garden"? If so, that's where I went twice. I had a great selection of birds there. I don't know if it's ethical to suggest this, but we played Collared Owlet recordings to pull birds in - it works like magic.

dalat said:

I think the best strategy for combining birding with family in Dalat is to do half-day birding in the morning and spend the afternoon with the family. All Ta Nung, Tuyen Lam (western side) and Lang Bian can be done in a morning (back in town by 1 pm or so) when starting early and knowing where to go. Of course you should not loose time with searching for the locations, so either you take a guide or you do your research before and know exactly where you go. You should have coordinates on your phone or so to tell the drivers where to go, because explaining may be difficult (at least for Tuyen Lam; Lang Bian and Ta Nung should be easy).

I have put together a couple of maps a while ago, which still may be helpful :

- Overview: https://sites.google.com/site/dalatbirding/dalat-sites
- Google map: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewe...ll=11.810889772657397,108.38233000000002&z=10
- Dalat map, pdf: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...nxkYWxhdGJpcmRpbmd8Z3g6NmUzMzNhNThjYjU3NDBkYQ
- Tuyen Lam map, pdf (western side access not yet included): https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...nxkYWxhdGJpcmRpbmd8Z3g6M2Q0MGNkODZmOTEwMDM0NA

Click to expand...

That's great help, thank you so much !

James Lowther said:

ok,

west ho tuyen lam

clay tunnels are a big tourist trap here (put coordinates into google maps):-

11.883380, 108.410338

you can easily get a taxi here and also pick one up from the car park after you are finished as there are many tourists here

walking along the minor gravel road starting here

11.883537, 108.408510

signposted "Suoi Tia" i think, takes you into decent habitat.

There are two small paths off to the right of this road

the first approx here

11.881586, 108.406029

goes steeply upwards into broadleaved forest

the second around here

11.879831, 108.408828

goes through open pine forest

this whole area is really excellent

cheers,
James

Click to expand...

Thanks for the precise coordinates! That will definitely help me out a lot

Hi andyb39

Could you pm me the details of the guide you are referring to here? Looking to put together a trip in March 2019 and not getting a lot of response from emails to tour companies so may go down local guides route.

Thanks Pash