Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
More discoveries. NEW: Zeiss Victory SF 32

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Eyes Left or Right?

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 15:11   #1
Jaff
Registered Member
 
Jaff's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wigan
Posts: 12,362
Eyes Left or Right?

Something of a two pronged query here. May seem a tad strange this but do side on images look better with the bird facing left or right or is there no difference and is it cheating too much to flip an image even if it looks better?

Take the examples, in my opinion both images look better with the birds facing left and if I were to post them that is how I would do it. If it can make a big difference in bringing out the full potential of a shot then surely it's justifiable.

The other part is if I post an image that was flipped is that something you're meant to declare, I mean it's not out and out cheating like making a composite or removing some major obstruction/distraction is it. So basically I'd like to also like to gauge some opinion on what is the kind of stuff that you should really own up to doing when you post an image.

Suggestions/thoughts?
Cheers.
AJ
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FlipExample1.jpg
Views:	114
Size:	126.6 KB
ID:	325637  Click image for larger version

Name:	FlipExample2.jpg
Views:	102
Size:	126.6 KB
ID:	325638  Click image for larger version

Name:	FlipExample3.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	88.4 KB
ID:	325639  Click image for larger version

Name:	FlipExample4.jpg
Views:	105
Size:	88.5 KB
ID:	325640  
__________________
The views and opinions expressed by me on this Forum are not necessarily those of my brain.
Jaff is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 15:53   #2
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 15,426
Left facing generally looks best to me also, perhaps because I’m left-handed (or perhaps not, I really don’t know what governs these preferences). As far as reversing right-left & “improving” the background are concerned, I don’t think these need “owning up to” as long as the bird itself is left untouched. An exception, of course, would be a photo published in an ecology magazine or some such place where the background’s important.

I’ll be interested to hear what others have to say on this subject.

Last edited by fugl : Thursday 19th May 2011 at 19:15.
fugl is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 16:04   #3
Adam W
Registered User
 
Adam W's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: sunderland
Posts: 4,737
I asked a similar question on here once but about painting birds, i always paint them facing left but i think thats because i'm right handed and i find it very difficult to paint them facing the other way but that said you see plenty of paintings with the birds facing the other way and i'd assume most would be painted by right handers.

So i always find photo's better if the bird is facing left but thats quite possibly because i know i'd find it much easier to draw/paint that way rather than actually making a better photo.
I dont really know why but to me if the bird is facing right it seems to be looking out of the picture but when facing left it seems to be looking into the picture but maybe thats just me.
Adam W is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 16:19   #4
NoSpringChicken
Registered User
 
NoSpringChicken's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Norfolk
Posts: 26,124
I wonder if I could get away with this one?

Ron
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	I-wonder.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	201.3 KB
ID:	325662  
NoSpringChicken is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 2011 2012 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 17:02   #5
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 15,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSpringChicken View Post
I wonder if I could get away with this one?
Well, perhaps not.
fugl is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 18:48   #6
Ashley beolens
Breeding the next generation of birders.
 
Ashley beolens's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Milton Keynes, Bucks, UK
Posts: 1,174
It is very odd as I always prefer birds facing right (I'm right handed) I wonder if there is a trend?
__________________
Ashley Beolens
http://www.viewsfromanurbanlake.co.uk/ - Local patch blog
http://www.mothininthegarden.co.uk - Moth Blog
Ashley beolens is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 20:01   #7
Paul Collins
Registered User
 
Paul Collins's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: London
Posts: 540
I prefer the right ones. I wouldn't say it's a problem, but of course always be honest about the alterations that you have made.
Paul Collins is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 19th May 2011, 20:59   #8
Roy C
Occasional bird snapper
 
Roy C's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Barnstaple,North Devon,UK
Posts: 16,311
I put the same question up a few years ago and if I remember right there were a lot of definite preferences but they ended up about 50-50. No particular preference myself though.
Roy C is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 06:36   #9
Smudger01
Enthusiastic Amateur
 
Smudger01's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Oxfordshire
Posts: 177
I also prefer them looking to the right. I'm no expert but from a compositional point of view I think it's because we read left to Right ??? Generally though if I take them looking left I leave them as they are.
__________________
Geoff

http://www.flickr.com/photos/geoffjenny/
Canon EOS 40D body - Sigma 50-500mm tele - Sigma 150mm macro - Sigma 10-20mm wide angle - Canon EF-S 17-85mm ISM - Sigma EM-140 ring flash
Take only pictures... Leave only footprints... Kill nothing but time...
Smudger01 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 20th May 2011, 06:50   #10
John N
Registered User
 
John N's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Sedgley, West Midlands. England.
Posts: 15,178
I'm just happy to get a decent photo and never gave it a thought until now, but thinking about it I prefer them facing right.
__________________
Take only Pictures - Leave only Footprints - Kill only Time.
John N is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 07:29   #11
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2020

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 15,426
Looks like the "rights" are winning. Maybe it does have to do with handedness after all, since right-handers are more common than lefties. Has anyone voted "against" his handedness so far?
fugl is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 08:04   #12
NoSpringChicken
Registered User
 
NoSpringChicken's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: East Norfolk
Posts: 26,124
I am right handed. I have just had a quick look at my gallery and I seem to have more shots of birds facing left. Of course, the real question now might be: 'Do birds prefer to perch facing left or right?'

Ron
NoSpringChicken is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2010 2011 2012 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 14:01   #13
Tord
Registered User
 
Tord's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 2,004
Hi all

I recently followed a photo class trying to improve my skills and this topic was actually discussed.

It is more than a simple look left or right. Even though most natural objects have a L/R symmetry, we process visual information by starting in the top left corner and then moving diagonally towards the bottom right corner. We are not conscious about this and scan images this way nearly every time.

This can be taken advantage of by the photographer to compose images in ways that will be perceived in different ways (while composing the picture and to some extent in the digital lab).

Lines
In pictures there are two imaginay diagonal lines.
  • Lines from top-left to bottom right are percived more natural and will create "positive", pleasant and smooth emotions.
  • Lines from bottom-left to top-right are perceived less natural and will create "negative" tensions

Placement of subject
  • Subject in upper left corner creates a "negative" feeling of loneliness since this is the subject first we notice in the picture, and is followed by empty space.
  • Subject in bottom right creates a comforting feeling, after empty space comes the subject.
  • Subject in bottom left will be perceived as less significant since it is below the diagonal line
  • Subject in top right corner creates a feeling of being dominant since it is above the diagonal line

Then of course we have other composition rules that apply to cropping so that living objects e.g. birds look into the picture and not towards the frame.

Above could be exploited when composing pictures of birds.

/Tord
Tord is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 15:35   #14
Jaff
Registered Member
 
Jaff's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wigan
Posts: 12,362
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tord View Post
Hi all

I recently followed a photo class trying to improve my skills and this topic was actually discussed.

It is more than a simple look left or right. Even though most natural objects have a L/R symmetry, we process visual information by starting in the top left corner and then moving diagonally towards the bottom right corner. We are not conscious about this and scan images this way nearly every time.

This can be taken advantage of by the photographer to compose images in ways that will be perceived in different ways (while composing the picture and to some extent in the digital lab).

Lines
In pictures there are two imaginay diagonal lines.
  • Lines from top-left to bottom right are percived more natural and will create "positive", pleasant and smooth emotions.
  • Lines from bottom-left to top-right are perceived less natural and will create "negative" tensions

Placement of subject
  • Subject in upper left corner creates a "negative" feeling of loneliness since this is the subject first we notice in the picture, and is followed by empty space.
  • Subject in bottom right creates a comforting feeling, after empty space comes the subject.
  • Subject in bottom left will be perceived as less significant since it is below the diagonal line
  • Subject in top right corner creates a feeling of being dominant since it is above the diagonal line

Then of course we have other composition rules that apply to cropping so that living objects e.g. birds look into the picture and not towards the frame.

Above could be exploited when composing pictures of birds.

/Tord
Wow fascinating stuff there. I've just been psycho-analysed without realising it!

There does seem to be a great amount of pers. pref. with this. As it seems many of you do have a preference would you then manipulate the image to suit that preference as I would or would you not bother seeing as how it's almost 6 of one and half a dozen of the other which way a bird faces.

Although as has been suggested by Tord I wonder if with my Tree Sparrow I prefer it facing left cos of the diagonal situation the bird creates running from top left to bottom right. I admit that with regards to my Dunlin I was less bothered and I wonder if it's because of this very reason. Oh crumbs I'm going to need to see a shrink after all this!

Oh and BTW I'm right-handed.
__________________
The views and opinions expressed by me on this Forum are not necessarily those of my brain.
Jaff is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 17:04   #15
Tord
Registered User
 
Tord's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Malmö, Sweden
Posts: 2,004
Hi again

I just realize that I forgot to provide feedback regarding the photos and trying to apply what I learned:
- Sparrow: looking left. The bird should be re-positioned by, if possible, restoring quite some of the green background that I guess has been cropped away and also restoring a little to the left. I took the liberty to attach a mockup outlining what I mean, apologies for manipulating your picture.
- Wader: tougher call. It depends on what other elements are present but cropped away in the original picture. Can you share the original?
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	FlipExample2-modified.jpg
Views:	69
Size:	194.4 KB
ID:	325935  
Tord is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 20th May 2011, 19:25   #16
John P
Usually on a different wavelength
 
John P's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Hampshire
Posts: 2,105
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
Looks like the "rights" are winning. Maybe it does have to do with handedness after all, since right-handers are more common than lefties. Has anyone voted "against" his handedness so far?
They have now; I'm mostly* a leftie and prefer my birds looking right.

*Left handed but right footed.
John P is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 21st May 2011, 17:28   #17
tracker
Tom
 
tracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 6,524
Quote:
Originally Posted by John P View Post
Left handed but right footed.
Im right handed and left footed!

Adam, there are rules involved with artistic presentation; some can be broken; some, when observed, make so much difference to a final image. In some cases, when theres a blatant ignoring of a certain rule/principle then that can give a sense of unease (which could be what the artist wants to communicate); in some cases, simply because the artist/photographer isnt aware of a principle.

Tords recap was very interesting; especially the part about entering an image from top left working down to bottom right.

Personal taste comes into most things, certainly within art, but its not a good enough excuse for completely ignoring some basics first. I see artistic expression as very similar to language expression; a grasp of sentence structure, learning a, b, c's etc goes a long way to then being able to develop and open up the language for personal expression, eg for writing poetry. Without a grasp of simple rules, such writing would not be possible; to me, art is the same. Then, whether writer or artist, poet or photographer, breaking the rules, at the right time, can be done for a required impact!

Anyway, I know you like to break lots of rules!

ps...theres some 'rules' for image editing too; even where theres 'personal taste'!

Last edited by tracker : Saturday 21st May 2011 at 17:40.
tracker is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2004 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 22nd May 2011, 05:55   #18
wildphoto
Wildphoto
 
wildphoto's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Wigan
Posts: 258
Adam, I'm not a poster on "threads" it's a little alien to me, but noticed this when looking at the classifieds.
I actually do a bit painting and drawing have done for many years, being right handed it is natural for me to sketch my subject as I view, looking to the left, e.g. drawing the contours of a face is easier, to someone who is left handed it may be the opposite. However, whichever orientation the original, a good tip is to look at the mirror image, if it looks right the wrong way round so to speak, then the composition is spot on.
No reason not to flip an image in photography, newspapers do it all the time to make it fit the copy, one drawback for me though, is I always remember which direction the light source was coming from, and that is also flipped it seems to make the image look wrong.
__________________
"May the wind always be on your back"
David Cookson
www.dcimages.co
http://davidcooksonimages.blogspot.com/
wildphoto is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 22nd May 2011, 17:43   #19
Jaff
Registered Member
 
Jaff's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Wigan
Posts: 12,362
Thanks everyone. Certainly some interesting input there for me to chew over. I don't routinely flip every image I take but sometimes when I'm trying to crop a shot I'm never happy with the composition and then I flip it and it'll take on a whole new perspective that meets my approval. Strange as that may seem given that everything is identical but just facing the other way.

Although for some reason I've completely 'flipped' and I now seem to think that my Tree Sparrow looks better facing right! That said this nearly identical one I put on yonks ago is a flipped image and still most definitely in my mind looks better that way http://www.birdforum.net/gallery/sho...7/ppuser/42340.
I suppose the only conclusion I can draw is it entirely depends on the image itself but I'd urge people to just try it with their own images while they are processing just to see if it makes a difference or not. You might be surprised.

Cheers all.

PS not interested in a nice macro lens are you David?
__________________
The views and opinions expressed by me on this Forum are not necessarily those of my brain.
Jaff is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 29th May 2011, 10:00   #20
Silverwolf
Registered User
 
Silverwolf's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Southern California
Posts: 4,435
I'd say the Dunlin looks better facing left. When its facing right it seems to look turn its turning away in my opinion. A strange illusion going on here.

To the contrary, I think the Tree Sparrow looks better facing right.

I personally don't pay much attention to the direction, but I can agree that some pictures look "better" flipped.

I had a bit of a dilemma with a bird I got recently. It was on the end of a branch hanging down and was upside-down, but it looks a lot better when flipped vertically. The problem is that the branch does not look natural because of the leaves pointing straight up, as it was one of those Weeping Willow style trees (Ecalyptus to be precise).

Last edited by Silverwolf : Sunday 29th May 2011 at 10:05.
Silverwolf is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 2nd July 2011, 19:06   #21
impotentspider
Registered User
 
impotentspider's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: leeds
Posts: 234
I can appreciate some of the waffle that photographic judges come out with such as "Highlights in a corner will drag your eye away" or "The base of a picture needs to be darker than the top to give it some stability" or "you've cut the landscape in two with that wall and theres no gate for me to walk though"...... But, when it comes to subjects such as birds etc that are almost filling the frame and "in your face" I dont think it matters which way the beast is facing, if its dominant enough in the frame then your eye will go straight to it, you wont start at the left and move to the right because you've already seen it, I think its more important to give the feeling that the bird has space to "move into" with careful cropping.
Besides, if you flip the image its not what you saw and is no longer a true Natural History shot

PS; thats a very nice spuggie shot Jaff.

Last edited by impotentspider : Saturday 2nd July 2011 at 19:08.
impotentspider is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 2nd July 2011, 19:39   #22
Musoman
PETE - Nikon Shooter
 
Musoman's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Oxfordshire UK
Posts: 1,674
Quote:
Originally Posted by impotentspider View Post
But, when it comes to subjects such as birds etc that are almost filling the frame and "in your face" I dont think it matters which way the beast is facing, if its dominant enough in the frame then your eye will go straight to it, you wont start at the left and move to the right because you've already seen it, I think its more important to give the feeling that the bird has space to "move into" with careful cropping.
Good call Spider - totally agree
__________________
NIKON D7500+Nikon D7000+Sigma 300-800+Tamron 70-300 VC+Tamron SP 90 AF Macro+Nikkor 28-105 AFD+Tokina 11-16+Novo/Benro/Rollei
BF Photos
FLICKR
Musoman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My hummingbird left me :-( aveschapines Hummingbirds 12 Saturday 26th February 2011 19:05
left over seed nataliew Food and Feeders 17 Sunday 10th January 2010 06:30
The Hobbies have left ... But cheersm8 Birds & Birding 6 Friday 2nd October 2009 16:52
From left to right Dave B Bird Forum Fun Quizzes 13 Monday 28th August 2006 14:08
chick left behind slish Say Hello 2 Monday 22nd May 2006 06:18

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.24635005 seconds with 35 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 19:37.