ED50 + Samsung NV3 question (1 Viewer)

John Fordham · Feb 22, 2008

Hi all,
Have recently purchased an ED50 (yes, the rose pink one :t

from InFocus with 13-40x zoom. My first spotting scope and really like it. I have also purchased from InFocus the Samsung NV3 + ED50 adaptor for taking pictures and am having a 'problem' that is annoying and I wonder whether you can provide some advice.

When I put the camera on to the scope, making sure that I push the adaptor up to the scope eyepiece, I frequently find (90% of the time) that there is shading across the circular field of view, even with zoom set to 13x. This is not vignetting, it is within the circular area, and am convinced that it is related to the camera being tilted slightly with respect to the scope optical path. The adaptor clamp is fully tightened. I then try minimizing the problem by physically moving the adaptor/camera assembly whilst looking at the LCD screen - yes, can do that with adaptor fully clamped - but result is rarely perfect where am aiming to see on LCD screen uniform illumination across the circular field of view. It is rather annoying and process rather fiddly and am wondering whether this is a fundamental problem or whether I am doing something wrong - I've done some experimenting with putting on the adaptor but without any success.

Your thoughts greatly appreciated. I hope above description makes sense.

Cheers
John

NoSpringChicken · Feb 22, 2008

Hi John.

Congratulations on your choice of scope! I have seen one or two Rose Pink ones out and about and they don't look that pink in real life. I think the metallic-looking finish helps.

I think your diagnosis of the problem is probably correct. I notice the same effect on mine sometimes if it is not aligned perfectly squarely with the eyepiece. I am a bit confused as to what adaptor you are using as you refer to the 'ED 50 adaptor' and I'm not sure what that means. I think the tube type adaptors are probably the best for maintaining correct alignment and I often have to tweak my swing away model after I put it on the scope. A small movement makes quite a difference.

The other possibility is that, if there is a gap between the camera lens and the eyepiece, you might be getting shadows cast. Once again I imagine tube adaptors would eliminate that problem. Alternatively it might be possible to raise the eyecups to get rid of the gap.

I normally use the 20x MC eyepiece now rather than the zoom as there are no vignetting problems at all with it, even without using the camera zoom.

I will watch to see if anyone has any further suggestions.

Ron

SteveClifton · Feb 22, 2008

John, have you flagged up your problem with in-Focus, they should be good at sorting out 'problems' like this?

I have both the ED50 with 27x, and the NV3 camera, though haven't had it long. I bought the camera mainly for hand-holding. If you don't get it sorted it soon, I'll have a look and see if I have the same issues with mine.

Steve

John Fordham · Feb 22, 2008

NoSpringChicken said:
I think your diagnosis of the problem is probably correct. I notice the same effect on mine sometimes if it is not aligned perfectly squarely with the eyepiece. I am a bit confused as to what adaptor you are using as you refer to the 'ED 50 adaptor' and I'm not sure what that means. I think the tube type adaptors are probably the best for maintaining correct alignment and I often have to tweak my swing away model after I put it on the scope. A small movement makes quite a difference.

Ron

The ED50 adaptor, Ron, is I guess an InFocus produced product - can find a poor picture of assembly under "Samsung NV3 Camera Kit" at InFocus website. The adaptor has three parts:

1. Main body that is clamped on to the camera
2. A plastic ring that I find it difficult to describe so have taken picture (attached).
3. An outer clamping mechanism that fits over the plastic ring and screws on to the main body.

As the clamping mechanism is screwed on, it compresses the plastic ring, decreasing the size of the cutout in this ring. This ring then clamps on to, specifically, the zoom control mechanism on the 13-40x eyepiece.

Hope this explanation is clearer than mud.

Cheers
John

P.S. Whilst writing this, I realized that there may be a fundamental problem with this design. Surely, as the gap in the plastic ring is closed, the ring becomes non-circular and will not clamp uniformly on to the eyepiece ?

John Fordham · Feb 22, 2008

SteveClifton said:
John, have you flagged up your problem with in-Focus, they should be good at sorting out 'problems' like this?

Steve

No, I haven't contacted InFocus yet. This is something I would want to discuss with them personally, rather than sending an e-mail, with the scope/camera showing the problem. I am happy to go to InFocus but it is rather a hike there and back and was wondering whether (hoping that) BF members may have encountered this problem already.

NoSpringChicken · Feb 22, 2008

John. Your adaptor looks to me like the NV3 kit on the Opticron site. You can download a pdf there. I take it the ring is a spacer, available in various thicknesses for different eyepieces. It looks as if In Focus have chosen one to suit the ED50 zoom as they are really designed for Opticron eyepieces. Unfortunately it looks as if most of my suggestions don't really apply in this case.

Out of interest, do you have to zoom in the camera to clear the vignette or does it work without vignetting at the camera's widest setting?

Ron

SteveClifton · Feb 22, 2008

Did you purchase it unseen (by phone or over the net)? I only ask as it might be that, whilst In-Focus sell this for use with the ED50, but they have only trialled it with a fixed eyepiece (It does sound like an Opticron product specifically designed for their own range of scopes, but works with some others by way of a happy accident, rather than by design).

I have just hand held my camera to the scope eyepiece, and it's relatively easy to get a vignette-free image (I realize that vignetting is not the main issue for you, but a kind of blacking out? correct me if I'm wrong), both with the MC eyecup twisted all the way down, and with it raised up by 3-4mm, even with no camera zoom. It's not particularly crucial that the camera is held perfectly square to the eyepiece.

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but the eyepiece choice could be an issue worth checking out with this adapter.

Steve

John Fordham · Feb 22, 2008

NoSpringChicken said:
Out of interest, do you have to zoom in the camera to clear the vignette or does it work without vignetting at the camera's widest setting?

Ron

I always have to zoom in, Ron, even on the 13x setting to clear vignetting.

I think you are right that it is an Opticron mount. I wonder whether anyone has had problems using this mount on an Opticron?

Cheers
John

John Fordham · Feb 22, 2008

SteveClifton said:
Did you purchase it unseen (by phone or over the net)? I only ask as it might be that, whilst In-Focus sell this for use with the ED50, but they have only trialled it with a fixed eyepiece (It does sound like an Opticron product specifically designed for their own range of scopes, but works with some others by way of a happy accident, rather than by design).

I have just hand held my camera to the scope eyepiece, and it's relatively easy to get a vignette-free image (I realize that vignetting is not the main issue for you, but a kind of blacking out? correct me if I'm wrong), both with the MC eyecup twisted all the way down, and with it raised up by 3-4mm, even with no camera zoom. It's not particularly crucial that the camera is held perfectly square to the eyepiece.

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but the eyepiece choice could be an issue worth checking out with this adapter.

Steve

Thanks for the comments, Steve.

Yes, you are correct it is a blacking out, not vignetting that is the problem.

It is a little bit of a long story associated with purchase. I was at InFocus shop purchasing ED50 and was demonstrated the NV10 connected to the ED50. In my naivety, I didn't take any notice of how store manager connected camera (or whether he used camera zoom to clear vignetting) - it all seemed to work well. At that time, I wasn't sure whether I wanted the NV10 or an NV3 and went away to investigate performance of the two. Finally decided on NV3 which I purchased without a shop demonstration.

I was wondering about eyepieces. When purchasing ED50, i wanted to compare 13-40x with 27x but InFocus did not have 27x in stock. They promised to call me when available - not yet happened. I have an agreement with them that can swap 13-40x for 27x if seems better.

My main 'problem' is that off to Tobago on Wednesday and want to have best operational setup for this trip |8)|

Cheers
John

SteveClifton · Feb 22, 2008

I was wondering about eyepieces. When purchasing ED50, i wanted to compare 13-40x with 27x but InFocus did not have 27x in stock. They promised to call me when available - not yet happened. I have an agreement with them that can swap 13-40x for 27x if seems better.

Same thing happened to me-I bought the zoom at first, but soon swapped it for a 27x, and much happier since. If you also bought the camera from them, would they swap that too?

I remember a similar thread a year or so ago, where someone bought a camera & adapter combo from them-had problems, and before long the guy's name (shop assistant from in-Focus) was mud on this forum. To his credit, he even came on here, answered his critics and offered to sort the whole thing out! Credit where it's due...Turned out that it was a simple problem that was relatively easy to sort.

Hope you get it sorted one way or another, especially with that holiday looming up!

Steve

NoSpringChicken · Feb 22, 2008

I have been doing a bit of research on the Opticron and Nikon sites. As far as I can tell the diameter of the Nikon 13-40 zoom eyepiece is 48mm. The nearest insert for the Opticron DCC Adapter is 51mm (item 50056). That does not suggest a very snug fit when the gap in the sleeve is fully closed.

The Nikon 27x MC eyepiece is 51mm in diameter, so in theory should be a perfect fit. The eye relief of the 27x is 17.8mm compared to 14.1 for the zoom. I suppose you really need to know the eye relief for the Opticron eyepiece that the adapter was designed for to see if the camera is being held the correct distance from the eyepiece.

Finally, I can't find the diameter of the Nikon 27x DS eyepiece, as this could provide a better mount for an adapter as it doesn't have an eyecup. It comes with a rubber cup which can be fitted for normal viewing.

Please don't take these figures as gospel but it is possible that the 27x MC might allow a snugger mount for the adapter than the zoom.

Ron

desgreene · Feb 22, 2008

I use this set up on an Opticron HDF zoom. I've not noticed any blacking out, but I do need to use two clicks of optical zoom to clear vignetting.

Des.

John Fordham · Feb 22, 2008

NoSpringChicken said:
I have been doing a bit of research on the Opticron and Nikon sites. As far as I can tell the diameter of the Nikon 13-40 zoom eyepiece is 48mm. The nearest insert for the Opticron DCC Adapter is 51mm (item 50056). That does not suggest a very snug fit when the gap in the sleeve is fully closed.

The Nikon 27x MC eyepiece is 51mm in diameter, so in theory should be a perfect fit. The eye relief of the 27x is 17.8mm compared to 14.1 for the zoom. I suppose you really need to know the eye relief for the Opticron eyepiece that the adapter was designed for to see if the camera is being held the correct distance from the eyepiece.

Finally, I can't find the diameter of the Nikon 27x DS eyepiece, as this could provide a better mount for an adapter as it doesn't have an eyecup. It comes with a rubber cup which can be fitted for normal viewing.

Please don't take these figures as gospel but it is possible that the 27x MC might allow a snugger mount for the adapter than the zoom.

Ron

Many thanks for this investigation, Ron. I've just borrowed some calipers from work and made measurements on actual setup.

The 13-40mm eyepiece has a small part of its length (4mm) raised in diameter. This section is rubber and knurled and is where one uses ones fingers for changing the magnification. The diameter of this raised section is 48mm. It is on to this section that the adaptor clamps.

The ring in the adaptor that does the actually clamping (shown in previous message) is 20mm in length. For half of this length, the inside diameter is 51mm and then, for remaining half, it steps down to 49.5mm. It is the 49.5mm portion that clamps on to the raised section of the eyepiece.

I think, here, lies the fundametal problem in that clamping is on to a rubberised, knurled section of eyepiece only 4mm in length - this can't be very secure.

Additionally, I have just put adaptor ring by itself over the eyepiece and found that I can manually compress the ring so that the ring-gap is zero - the eyepiece can be moved within that compressed ring. I would expect, for secure clamping, that some gap still exists in the adaptor ring when fully clamped.

I haven't seen one but I imagine the 27mm eyepiece does not have the knurled rubberised section and would provide a more secure mount.

Regards
John

Paul Hackett · Feb 23, 2008

Hi John

A couple of things, its pretty obvious that you dont have a suitable adapter for your set up, so -

1. you persevere and try to angle the set up to eliminate as much of the "shade"as you canwith your current setup ?

2. swap the zoom for the 27X, its a great lens

3. if you do get the 27X eyepeice, you may have to look at your adapter setup, SRB Griturn do an adapter for the camera and an adapter to attach the camera to the eyepeice, not a cheap option but it works well! The "universal adapter" as mentioned on this forum will also work

4. Buy the 27X lens and just hand hold the camera without an adapter, on the "ASR" setting its pretty good hand held as long as you keep you hands perfectly still after you have depressed the shutter dependant on light of course, NB, this mode does choose its own ISO, the "P" mode is also good as you can change the following to "Spot Focus" "Spot Meter" "ISO" "Exposure" "White balance"

and dont forget to take lots of shots and maybe buy a spare battery?

Hope this helps?

good luck

Regards

Paul

John Fordham · Feb 23, 2008

Paul Hackett said:
Hi John

A couple of things, its pretty obvious that you dont have a suitable adapter for your set up, so -

1. you persevere and try to angle the set up to eliminate as much of the "shade"as you canwith your current setup ?

2. swap the zoom for the 27X, its a great lens

3. if you do get the 27X eyepeice, you may have to look at your adapter setup, SRB Griturn do an adapter for the camera and an adapter to attach the camera to the eyepeice, not a cheap option but it works well! The "universal adapter" as mentioned on this forum will also work

4. Buy the 27X lens and just hand hold the camera without an adapter, on the "ASR" setting its pretty good hand held as long as you keep you hands perfectly still after you have depressed the shutter dependant on light of course, NB, this mode does choose its own ISO, the "P" mode is also good as you can change the following to "Spot Focus" "Spot Meter" "ISO" "Exposure" "White balance"

and dont forget to take lots of shots and maybe buy a spare battery?

Hope this helps?

good luck

Regards

Paul

Many thanks for the comments, Paul.
Yes, I think I had come to the conclusion that the adaptor is not ideal and that would probably work better with the 27x - am still waiting for InFocus to have these in stock and will not be available before I go on holiday on Wednesday :C.

Thanks for the advice on alternative adaptor. I'll wait until I can try the 27x on current adaptor first - I have a feeling it will work an awful lot better.

Already have spare battery and spare memory card in case go above 2GB:-O

La-di-da as they say in all the best Woody Allen movies.

Cheers
John

erniehatt · Mar 6, 2008

I still can't see why people must buy readymade adapters, when they are so easy to make out of scrap materials. Cost zilch.Ernie

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