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Species names (1 Viewer)

A

ADRIANS PHOTOGRAPHY

Well-known member
Hi all I don’t know whether this is the right place to put this but here goes, I have just taken up this wonderful hobby again after a long break and are bewildered by what people call the birds by for instance we now have the Eurasian Coot this was just a Coot in my old days.

Why have the names changed and why are they now called these different names for instance we have Eurasian, European & Common in front of species names that years ago were just called by their correct names i.e.: Coot.

Could someone please enlighten me as I am a little confused?

Kind Regards

BCB
 
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Its to distinguish them from similar species in other regions.

For example, a Eurasian Coot is not the same an American Coot.

Most of the names that you were familiar with in your old days work fine as a species identifier in Britain, where only one species commonly exists (buzzard, for example) but don't work so well in a European or even wider context.

Don't feel you have to change what you call them though, a Coot is still a Coot in most contexts!
 
Hi Stuart surely a Buzzard is still a Buzzard in Europe as the others have a different species name in front of the word Buzzard (Honey for example) and why was a Hedge Sparrow changed to a Dunnock amongst others.

I do understand what you are saying but here's one I don't understand at all (White/Pied/Alba) wagtail when a white is clearly different to a pied?

EDIT - I am not having a go just trying to understand the new way of naming species.

Kind Regards

BCB
 
Hi BCB

Pied Wagtail is actually a subspecies of White Wagtail, you can read more about this in the Opus article - Motacilla alba yarelli.

I'll leave the experts to comment further, but Dunnock is not a true 'sparrow', it's an accentor, hence it was re-classified and re-named.
 
ADRIANS PHOTOGRAPHY said:
Hi Stuart surely a Buzzard is still a Buzzard in Europe as the others have a different species name in front of the word Buzzard (Honey for example) and why was a Hedge Sparrow changed to a Dunnock amongst others.

I do understand what you are saying but here's one I don't understand at all (White/Pied/Alba) wagtail when a white is clearly different to a pied?

EDIT - I am not having a go just trying to understand the new way of naming species.

Kind Regards

BCB
Click to expand...

It is a return to a standardised approach rather than being a new system and has been devised so that we can pass information in a way that is understandable and without having to use scientific names in normal conversation. Some of the names have not changed as such but are restored after decades of what was often lazy usage.

The white wagtail is actually the name for the larger umbrella species and pied wagtail is now recognised as the British subspecies. A similar situation exists with the various yellow wagtails although the yellow wagtail is used as the generic species name in this case because it is less confusing than some of the blue-headed races. The dunnock has always existed as a name and the name, hedge sparrow is wrong and has led to a lot of confusion. In actual fact, the common name should be hedge accentor although very few people can get used to the name.

The common buzzard would be referred to by this name in Europe (except by Brit birders, I presume) and never just buzzard. The BOU tried to avoid using the prefix common because this is fraught with danger, especially if a species declines as with the common gull. The American name of mew gull is much better in many ways although it probably will not go into use here if only for aesthetic reasons. However, I think it is a good idea to always refer to the swallow as the barn swallow because it is such a good name anyway.
 
ADRIANS PHOTOGRAPHY said:
Hi all I don’t know whether this is the right place to put this but here goes, I have just taken up this wonderful hobby again after a long break and are bewildered by what people call the birds by for instance we now have the Eurasian Coot this was just a Coot in my old days.

Why have the names changed and why are they now called these different names for instance we have Eurasian, European & Common in front of species names that years ago were just called by their correct names i.e.: Coot.

Could someone please enlighten me as I am a little confused?

Kind Regards

BCB
Click to expand...

It is basically a question of globalization. There is an increasing number of global birders a great portion of which are mother tongue English speakers (...and yes, I do include the peculiar dialect spoken in the UK in this group;)). The change in the names of birds one used to use in one's local patch has now changed because all existant birds are being considered in a global sense. This means, for example, that a Coot is no longer just a Coot when put into relation with the about 10 other species of the genus of the european Fulica atra, therefore, you have to distinguish now which Coot. The upshot is that many english common names for birds have had to be changed to lend specificity to the names when speaking of similar birds. Further, because so many birds do not have restricted ranges and can be found on different continents through the years they have come to have numerous common names according to the local vernacular where they might be found. Obviously, a bird with many common names might not be recognised as a known bird to someone traveling outside of the local patch because the local name is not known. So, all this name changing is a laudable attempt for the homologation in the english language (the only one where there is this initiative to date) of the common names for birds. One accepted common name is much better than many perhaps non-recognisable vernacular names.
 
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ADRIANS PHOTOGRAPHY said:
Hi Stuart surely a Buzzard is still a Buzzard in Europe as the others have a different species name in front of the word Buzzard (Honey for example) and why was a Hedge Sparrow changed to a Dunnock amongst others.

I do understand what you are saying but here's one I don't understand at all (White/Pied/Alba) wagtail when a white is clearly different to a pied?

EDIT - I am not having a go just trying to understand the new way of naming species.

Kind Regards

BCB
Click to expand...

What about in areas where the Common Buzzard is not the most common Buzzard and therefore the bird normally referred to as 'Buzzard' is in fact something else?

A Dunnock was always a Dunnock in some areas, and a Hedge Sparrow in others. It got standardised to Dunnock because it was found not to be a sparrow at all.

White and Pied Wagtails are indeed (subspecifically) distinct from each other, but if you see a large mixed flock of them or even just a couple that you can't confidently say you can identify to the correct subspecies you might want to describe them as 'Alba' wagtails.
 
Many thanks all I think I am starting to get the drift now but may have a question or two in the future again thank you all for putting it in a way so as I could understand

Kind Regards

BCB
 
Hi BCB,

I'm sure you didn't mean to, but you've nudged opened a hornet's nest (I should probably say "European hornet's nest" to be pedantic).
Many changes to bird names made sense (despite the best international language for this - Latin - already being in place). Some, though, failed to be universally accepted. The fan-tailed warbler used to fan its tail in flight and inhabit reed beds, like many warblers do. Now it's called a zitting cisticola. I'll grudgingly accept that it goes "zit, zit" but so do most teenagers! As to "cisticola", some authorities say it's a better classification, but cisticolas are also warblers. I shall always call it a fan-tailed warbler (but then my father used to catch an omnibus to get to work).;)
Anyway, welcome to a world of tedious pedantry and opinionated minutiae!

Peter
 
Yes I have just noticed some more names I am not familiar with these are Winter Wren (Wren I think), Hedge Accentor (Hedge Sparrow/Dunnock I think), Barn Swallow (Swallow I think) why is the word Northern in front of such species as Wheatear, Lapwing, Pintail & Shoveler when they can be seen in most area's of the UK.

This as puzzled me for years why people have to put such things as Northern, Southern, Western & Eastern in front of any species of animal not just birds.
 
ADRIANS PHOTOGRAPHY said:
Yes I have just noticed some more names I am not familiar with these are Winter Wren (Wren I think), Hedge Accentor (Hedge Sparrow/Dunnock I think), Barn Swallow (Swallow I think) why is the word Northern in front of such species as Wheatear, Lapwing, Pintail & Shoveler when they can be seen in most area's of the UK.

This as puzzled me for years why people have to put such things as Northern, Southern, Western & Eastern in front of any species of animal not just birds.
Click to expand...

Northern relates to the entirity of their range rather than just the UK
 
There's a big wide world outside the UK Adrian!

The species with Northern in the name will typically inhabit regions that are further north than the regions inhabited by other similar species.

Hedge accentor is a Dunnock, and I think that was an attempt to give it a less cryptic English name than 'dunnock' once it was realised it was an accentor not a sparrow.

Barn Swallow is obvious, it's for the same reason as Barn Owls.

Winter Wren I can't explain :D
 
Stuart Matthews said:
Winter Wren I can't explain :D
Click to expand...

Winter wren is the American name for Troglodytes troglodytes to distinguish it from several species in the same family only found in North America. It is now thought that this diminutive species somehow made an oceanic crossing to colonise the Old World. I believe the original idea was that a North Atlantic land bridge existed long enough after the Ice Age to allow the birds to cross but it now seems more likely that the bird island-hopped down the Aleutian chain.
 
ADRIANS PHOTOGRAPHY said:
... why is the word Northern in front of such species as Wheatear, Lapwing, Pintail & Shoveler when they can be seen in most area's of the UK.

This as puzzled me for years why people have to put such things as Northern, Southern, Western & Eastern in front of any species of animal not just birds.
Click to expand...

Again this goes back to the avoidance of the word common. In the case of the wheatear, it is justified because Europe and Africa has a lot more species of wheatear than we normally see in the UK. Lapwing is a funny one because there are species under this name that are not directly related so it is essential to distinguish in reports. Pintail and shoveler both have analogues around the world that are already known by separate names (if I remember rightly without Googling - one is in Africa and one is in South America).
 
Nightranger said:
Winter wren is the American name for Troglodytes troglodytes to distinguish it from several species in the same family only found in North America. It is now thought that this diminutive species somehow made an oceanic crossing to colonise the Old World. I believe the original idea was that a North Atlantic land bridge existed long enough after the Ice Age to allow the birds to cross but it now seems more likely that the bird island-hopped down the Aleutian chain.
Click to expand...

It was split recently back into a distinct species. Troglodytes Troglodytes is now the Eurasian Wren. This is one of the reasons I didn't want to attempt an explanation! :)

But what I really meant is I don't know what is 'Winter' about it as an identifying characteristic.
 
Stuart Matthews said:
It was split recently back into a distinct species. Troglodytes Troglodytes is now the Eurasian Wren. This is one of the reasons I didn't want to attempt an explanation! :)

But what I really meant is I don't know what is 'Winter' about it as an identifying characteristic.
Click to expand...

One analogy that might be similar is J. Aububon naming Nashville Warbler so.
He was in Nashville, Tennesee at the time when encountered. Understand friend he was staying with owned a bourbon distillery. Edit: Was Alexander Wilson, not JA.

Winter Wrens name thought to originate from folks in southeastern US seeing bird overwinter periodically,
leaving in spring only to return following winter.
 
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Stuart Matthews said:
It was split recently back into a distinct species. Troglodytes Troglodytes is now the Eurasian Wren. This is one of the reasons I didn't want to attempt an explanation! :)

But what I really meant is I don't know what is 'Winter' about it as an identifying characteristic.
Click to expand...

Thanks Stuart, I did not know there had been a reverse split but apparently (I did Google this one ;)) the Eurasian wren has always been the extended common name. The split has been approved by the American equivalent of the BOU but given the name winter wren was proposed by the BOU at one time, I imagine they have simply deferred this idea in the light of the split.

I have always assumed the name winter wren came from the fact that this species is still active in winter and this link may partly confirm that idea although I have not found a definitive explanation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wren_Day
 
Nightranger said:
Thanks Stuart, I did not know there had been a reverse split but apparently (I did Google this one ;)) the Eurasian wren has always been the extended common name. The split has been approved by the American equivalent of the BOU but given the name winter wren was proposed by the BOU at one time, I imagine they have simply deferred this idea in the light of the split.
Click to expand...
they also split the north American population into winter wren and pacific wren.
 
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