Raptor ID in Kuwait please (1 Viewer)

My Friend photographed this raptor and he is suspected this might be a Tawny Eagle so he needs help to identify this bird .

Thank you

Oval nostrils exclude Spotted eagles, gape end just under the eye exclude Steppe, Tawny it is
Very nice picture btw
Tom

I'd believe that it is a spring 2cy Steppe Eagle. Despite the short looking gape, the plumage is mid-brown (not especially tawny or sand coloured), the throat is pale and the bill doesn't look especially thick. Tawny Eagle has not been recorded in Kuwait and is very rare anywhere in the WP.

The Sinclair field guide to Southern Africa mentions that the eastern subspecies of Steppe Eagle has gape to the rear of the eye, while western often only goes beyond the mid of the eye.

I am not qualified to say much more

Niels

Indeed orientalis Steppe Eagles do not necessarily show a long gape.

CAU said:

I'd believe that it is a spring 2cy Steppe Eagle. Despite the short looking gape, the plumage is mid-brown (not especially tawny or sand coloured), the throat is pale and the bill doesn't look especially thick. Tawny Eagle has not been recorded in Kuwait and is very rare anywhere in the WP.

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Glad you commented on this one CAU. I was thinking Steppe myself on general impression, but grounded can be difficult to ID.
How do you age it please? (Degree and evenness of wear on the flight feathers?)
Is it right to assume that a bird this age would usually start to have an iris turning pale?

Hi Tib!

Tib78 said:

How do you age it please? (Degree and evenness of wear on the flight feathers?)

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You are correct about the ageing. I'll cite a part of the caption of Plate 436 in Forsman's guide:

"Juvenile in worn plumage (2nd cy spring). Aged by uniformly worn plumage, in particular by uniform greater coverts and secondaries with extremely worn pale tips."

In this case the pale tips of the secondaries have practically completely worn off, but you can see some pale tips to the greater coverts. Older birds show different generations of wing coverts and flight feathers.

Tib78 said:

Is it right to assume that a bird this age would usually start to have an iris turning pale?

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Well, my konowledge is limited, but at least old subadults and adults would show a clearly paler iris (and adult Tawny Eagles an even paler one). I believe that the colour change is slow enough to make it difficult to say when it exactly begins. Techincally it could begin even at the time of hatching, but I don't have any real information about it. For example male Hen Harriers have a pretty dark eye as young nestlings, but by the time of fledging it has already turned quite pale (the colour change is much slower in female harriers).

Thanks for the reply.

Tib78 said:

Is it right to assume that a bird this age would usually start to have an iris turning pale?

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I was a little vague, to say the least. My question was: is it right to assume that a 2cy Tawny this age would usually show a paler iris?
The idea is: can Tawny be ruled out because of the dark iris? Or is it merely a pointer?

I'm not saying it is a Tawny E. from Kuwait

But TE seem to have a dark form wich can be very similar (to say the least ;-) to Steppe E.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=10395

The bill-shape ("thick" as CAY write above) seem to be unreliable (i can see no difference in bill shape in asian form of TE and SE)

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=10052

Interesting facts about gape in orientalis I did not know
maybe Abdulmohsen Alsuraye can tell us if there are flight pictures available, the pic above is a great close up, but even less perfect ones may help if showing more features, mainly flight feathers
Tom

Manne said:

But TE seem to have a dark form wich can be very similar (to say the least ;-) to Steppe E.

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=10395

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The bird in your link is adult-type (and interestingly it shows a pale throat). I would be interested in seeing pictures of uniformly mid-brown (milk chocolate brown) juvenile Tawny Eagles.

Here are some juvenile-type Tawny Eagles from India (but if someone adds pictures to the gallery, the links will point to wrong pictures):
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=1&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=6&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=7&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=8&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=9&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=20&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=24&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=26&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=27&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=28&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=30&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=31&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=34&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=35&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=39&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=42&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=43&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

As you can see, many are very pale, and even the darker individuals show pale patches and quite a blotchy plumage, not resembling juvenile Steppe Eagle, which typically has a uniformly milk chocolate brown plumage.

Here's a relativley brown and very worn individual, but it is still not uniformly coloured:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=15&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Here's a bird that resembles the Kuwaiti bird, but I fear that it is a misidentified Steppe Eagle:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=11&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=12&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Here's a misidentified Steppe Eagle:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=13&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Also this one looks misidentified (much white on the greater coverts, but they are very worn):
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=44&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Misidentified autumn 2cy Steppe Eagle (thus not as uniform as a juvenile):
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=22&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=21&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

So in summary, the majority of the numerous juvenile type Tawny Eagles found on orientalbirdimages.org look clearly different than the Kuwaiti bird. Only one looks really similar, but it might be a misidentified Steppe Eagle. As the Kuwaiti bird has been photographed in April (according to the exif data), I believe that the very worn but entirely juvenile plumage fits best Steppe Eagle.

Manne said:

The bill-shape ("thick" as CAY write above) seem to be unreliable (i can see no difference in bill shape in asian form of TE and SE)

http://www.netfugl.dk/pictures.php?id=showpicture&picture_id=10052

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To me there is a subtle difference. Although you probably can't use it to identify a single individual with certainty, the difference becomes clearer when you browse through numerous pictures of both species. Note also that on average the head of Tawny Eagle appears larger and rounder.

When you trawl through the OBC images, a lot of 2cy Tawny seem to have a paler iris (and somewhat less brown) than the corresponding age of Steppe, but there are some cases where the difference is slight, and the orientation of the light probably has an influence on our perception of the colour.

Obvious pale iris:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=1&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=7&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Not so obvious:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=20&Bird_ID=880&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

2cy steppe for comparison:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=24&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=26&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=44&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

I am really interested in any features allowing to ID grounded birds, because I encouter both species regularly in Africa and some birds are difficult (unless showing a diagnostic feature such very long gape in some Steppe etc...).

As a side note those, I found 2 more birds misidentified as Steppe (they look like Greater Spotted Eagles):
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=46&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=20&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Tib78 said:

When you trawl through the OBC images, a lot of 2cy Tawny seem to have a paler iris (and somewhat less brown) than the corresponding age of Steppe, but there are some cases where the difference is slight, and the orientation of the light probably has an influence on our perception of the colour.

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You'll also have to remember that the breeding period of Tawny Eagle is probably much longer than that of more northern raptors (i.e. there's a lot of variation in the real age of the "same" generation of Tawny Eagles).

Tib78 said:

As a side note those, I found 2 more birds misidentified as Steppe (they look like Greater Spotted Eagles):
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=46&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=20&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

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I have noted those, too, and I agree with you. Additionally, also this one looks like a GSE:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=98&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

This one is an Eastern Imperial Eagle:
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=45&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

I doubt that this one is a Steppe Eagle, but is it Tawny or Eastern Imperial?
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=115&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

CAU said:

You'll also have to remember that the breeding period of Tawny Eagle is probably much longer than that of more northern raptors (i.e. there's a lot of variation in the real age of the "same" generation of Tawny Eagles).

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You're right, thanks for pointing that out.

CAU said:

I doubt that this one is a Steppe Eagle, but is it Tawny or Eastern Imperial?
http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=115&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

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The (small) amount of streaking is worrying but on shape it looks more like an Imperial, no?

About;

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=115&Bird_ID=881&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Definetly EIE

Streaked chest and streaking in underwing, Herring gull-window in primaries and shape (ex small head and comparably "small" bill)

Compare;

http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?p=33&Bird_ID=882&Bird_Family_ID=&pagesize=1

Nice picture which has turned into a fascinating and informative thread - tnx to all concerned!

Laurie -

Thanks to all , it's very interesting dialouge , personally i learned alot from these oppinions and those information , but the conclusion not yet clear to me whether this raptor is aTawny Eagle or somthing else .