Red-breasted flycatcher or Taiga? (1 Viewer)

Sorry, saying 'this photo' is misleading. I actually meant the entire set, so should probably have said 'these photos'.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the black on Taiga 'blends into' the brown of the back. The uppertail coverts on Taiga are jet black and the same colour as the tail, but these contrast very sharply with the grey-brown back. This is usually a square-cut division, straight across at the base of the tail or perhaps slightly higher. (See this bird: http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_Image_ID=167707&Bird_ID=2781&Bird_Family_ID=&Location=)

On Red-breasted the uppertail coverts are not as dark and are paler than the tail feathers, so the brown colour extends further along the tail. The division between black and brown is not as sharp or square-cut. This fits with the brown 'u' you mention on your Red-breasted pictures. (Compare this bird http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_Image_ID=157749&Bird_ID=2689&Bird_Family_ID=&Location=)

The pattern that I see on the OP bird and on Andy's image from Vietnam shows the sharp, square contrast between the uppertail coverts and the rump, fitting Taiga. On the Taiga photos posted by MacNara, this area is obscured so it is hard to clearly see the division, but the uppertail coverts are very black, like the tail.

The calls of the two species are distinctive. Taiga has a faster rattle, whereas Red-breasted has a slightly slower call, and seems to more often give a single-note call.

I'm not really familiar enough with Red-breasted to say whether it can be completely ruled out for this bird, and what the chances would be for acceptance in Israel.

johnallcock said:

I'm not sure what you mean when you say that the black on Taiga 'blends into' the brown of the back.

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I mean what I showed in the photos.

johnallcock said:

The uppertail coverts on Taiga are jet black and the same colour as the tail, but these contrast very sharply with the grey-brown back. This is usually a square-cut division, straight across at the base of the tail or perhaps slightly higher. (See this bird: http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_Image_ID=167707&Bird_ID=2781&Bird_Family_ID=&Location=)

On Red-breasted the uppertail coverts are not as dark and are paler than the tail feathers, so the brown colour extends further along the tail. The division between black and brown is not as sharp or square-cut. This fits with the brown 'u' you mention on your Red-breasted pictures. (Compare this bird http://orientalbirdimages.org/search.php?Bird_Image_ID=157749&Bird_ID=2689&Bird_Family_ID=&Location=)

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Why do you accept the ID of these birds?

johnallcock said:

The pattern that I see on the OP bird and on Andy's image from Vietnam shows the sharp, square contrast between the uppertail coverts and the rump, fitting Taiga. On the Taiga photos posted by MacNara, this area is obscured so it is hard to clearly see the division, but the uppertail coverts are very black, like the tail.

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I disagree. I think it's the opposite.

andyb39 said:

The question is how rare would Taiga be in Israel - it's pretty damn rare here in the UAE, with only 8 records. I'm not sure the images are good enough for the record to be accepted without noting or recording calls. It's the kind of situation where good field notes might have been better.

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A potential 1st Andy, see Section 2:2 https://www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_11/

And I don't see these images making the grade with the IRBC in the absence of a sound file, despite it looking a promising candidate.

Grahame

Grahame Walbridge said:

A potential 1st Andy, see Section 2:2 https://www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_11/

And I don't see these images making the grade with the IRBC in the absence of a sound file, despite it looking a promising candidate.

Grahame

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Thanks for the link Grahame, so two putative Taïgas trapped and ringed at Jerusalem FBO that were not accepted as no DNA testable material to support the photos taken - funny how potential rarities manage to inevitably ‘shed a feather’ at UK ringing sites

I've only had experience with Taiga in the winter here in Bangladesh and some in Thailand and not experience at all with Red-breasted so don't have as nearly as much say in IDs like this but dark uppertail coverts, dark bill, and greyish plumage all point to Taiga imo.

FWIW, this bird fit's the description for Taiga from Rasmussen's guide to birds of south asia nearly word perfect: "note blackish face, throat and breast, short white brow over dark lores, and olive edged wings"
Same book says about Red-breasted: "Very like Red-throated [Taiga], but bill has extensive pale base to lower mandible, centre of breast lacks grey, and tail not as black, contrasting less with brownish higher uppertail coverts and rest of upperparts"
The taiga description lines up pretty much perfectly with this bird and this bird has all the characteristics red-breasted shouldn't have

Richard Prior said:

Thanks for the link Grahame, so two putative Taïgas trapped and ringed at Jerusalem FBO that were not accepted as no DNA testable material to support the photos taken - funny how potential rarities manage to inevitably ‘shed a feather’ at UK ringing sites

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I have stayed away from this purely through being busy elsewhere.

I will only restate what I said at the beginning, I cant distinguish the tail coverts from the photo, and in not seeing the feather group clearly it is difficult to tell what colour they are. I suspect it is only the tail feathers that I can see as black. - nothing to do with rump colours as one poster suggested.

I also note that if you go to the birding Israel web page Taiga Fly is listed as a vagrant with two records.
https://www.birds.org.il/en/species-page/483/species-trends
rather than the isra birding page https://www.israbirding.com/irdc/bulletins/bulletin_11/


Oddly the May 2011 record from JBO is shown as accepted there (although clearly not accepted in the the bulletin report)
Also a record from Oct 2011 is also shown as accepted (away from the JBO)

I am aware that the Birding Israel is a newer website, but I a surprised that they are divergent (even on the same bird). Perhaps some of our Israeli friends can explain.

The OSME Regional List shows no records of Taiga Flycatcher for Israel.

I've no input on the ID as I have never seen either species but I attach a poor photo of the relevant page of the "Advanced Bird ID Guide" by Nils van Duivendijk in case it can add anything to the debate. I hope it can be read!

Moderators: If it is wrong to upload such a photo for copyright reason the please remove.