The Zen Ray ZEN ED 3 (1 Viewer)

can't wait to get my hands on them

ZEN-RAY said:

Ted, the "warm/cold" refers to the color bias, not brightness. We tend to associate red end of spectrum with warmth and blue end of spetrum with cold color. The "warmer/colder" is just a relative term of comparing the color bias of the images produced by two different systems. In this case, ED2 may have a very slight warm color bias, which is corrected by ED3 with its neutral color tone.

Hope this helps.

Charles

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FrankD said:

In addition to Charles' comments....

Most individuals will not notice a given color bias unless it is fairly dramatic or unless they have two binoculars with the different color biases side by side. I believe our eyes tend to just adjust many times and any given image just appears neutral without a frame of reference.

Ted,

The ED3s do appear brighter in low light conditions. Any given color also seems to be a bit more vibrant.

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Thanks
Charles and Frank i am ordering a pair:t:

Ted

Got my ED3s today! I haven't had a chance to put them to serious use, but I will tomorrow. On first impression, they truly are amazing optics. Brightness and contrast is excellent. Clarity is great, but it is easy to pass the focus point since the focus is so fast. I don't think it will be a problem. I also don't see any "crescent" glare people refer to. They seem well built. I can't wait to break them in.

Shipping was insanely quick! Thanks Charles!
Dave

Pinewood said:

Hello,

After my initial experience with the Zen-Ray 7x36, which had some initial problems, I am in no hurry to even think of purchasing this binocular. To be sure, Zen-Ray fixed the problems with glare and even updated my early model but I am going to curb my enthusiasm and interest in this binocular.

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Arthur and I differ on surprisingly few points but enthusiasm for the Zen 7 x 36 happens to be one of them. My 7 x 36 is from the very first batch and, yes, it occasionally suffers from glare, and, yes, later versions offer better images, but on balance it's a wonderful birding binocular (and no slouch at the opera either). I have actually been trying to thin the herd in recent months (and, believe me, it needs thinning) but a Zen 7 x 43 would be very hard to resist and might well bring that program to an immediate halt.

My 8x43 ED3's arrived on Thursday and I've had them up to my eyes every chance I could get since then. These are very, very good binoculars. They further blur the line between a $400. dollar glass and those costing 5 and 6 times as much. FrankD and SteveC have covered the features of the ED3 better then I ever could so I'm just going to share my gut feelings after having these out in the field for 3 days.
I've birded with every current alpha glass except the Swarovision in the last three years and sold them all for various reasons. The only one I kept is the Nikon EDG 8x32. The ED3 is going in my bag right next to the EDG. Comparing these two bins is just splitting hairs. I just noticed even their names ED3/EDG are only a hairs breath apart.

In the field the ED3 reminds me most of the FLT 8x43. Both are bright almost to a fault, contrasty and tack sharp with good (but not the best) edge performance. The Zeiss is a bit more refined in terms of optics, fit and finish but I would never notice those minor differences in the field.

I'm not going to go on about this bin. I'm just going to climb out on a limb and say that the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 is an Alpha class binocular. There, I've said it. I'm out here on this limb and I can feel the saws coming out already. Have at it guys!

No saws here BP.



I feel much the same way. Here is a copy/paste of a response I left for another poster on a different forum. His question was what tier he had to go to in order to better the optical performance of the ED3s.

You asked what next tier you would have to go to in order to see a noticeable difference in optical performance over the ED3s...at least that is the way I took your question. The answer is that it depends what optical performance characteristics you prefer in your glass. I have the ED3s and have compared them with the ED2s and a friend's Swaro EL (pre-Swarovision). The only issue where the Swaros did slightly better was edge performance. Apparent sharpness, apparent brightness and certainly color fringing control all favored the ED3s.

So, in my humble opinion, and from an optical perspective, unless you want better edge performance you aren't going to step up optically from the Zen ED3s. Their centerfield performance is as good as any of the current offerings from Leica, Zeiss, Swaro or Nikon.

The new armoring and especially the new focusing knob is also sure to please many of the individuals who were not entirely happy with either

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I have a hard time imagining them continuing to improve on such an excellent design.....and yet somehow they always seem to.

FrankD said:

No saws here BP.



I feel much the same way. Here is a copy/paste of a response I left for another poster on a different forum. His question was what tier he had to go to in order to better the optical performance of the ED3s.



I have a hard time imagining them continuing to improve on such an excellent design.....and yet somehow they always seem to.

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Frank,
Before I started to write my post about the 8x43 ED3 I was reading the Swarovski thread regarding the new 8x30 CL. One gentleman agreed that the CL offered "95% or more of the performance, of the very top Alphas, at 1/2 the price." That got me thinking. Are the Swarovski 8x30 CL's an alpha binocular? Well, of course they are. Once you get within 4 or 5 percentage points of the very best then personal preference comes into play in the selection process. It doesn't matter if your talking about binoculars or cars or TV's. When your selecting from an elite group you will get an elite product.

As a total package (optics, build quality, ergonomics, accessories, warranty) the Zen-Ray 8x43 ED3 easily offers "95% or more" of the performance of the alphas. If I use the example of the Swarovski CL then the ED3 IS an alpha class binocular. And they do it at 1/5th the price!! I believe that if the ED3 were compared in the field with any other alpha binocular the tester would have to agree that, at the very least, the Zen's belong on the same playing field as Zeiss, Swaro, Leica and Nikon.
Tom

As a Swaro SLC HD owner, and a Zen ED2 owner, all I have to say is.........you bet they belong in the alpha glass category. They guys that don't want to believe it are the brainwashed guys who have $2000 euros around their neck. I may just get the ED3 since they're an upgrade to an already great glass, the ED2.

chartwell99 said:

...It's a wonderful birding binocular (and no slouch at the opera either).

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Hello Chartwell99,

The 7x36 Zen is a very good binocular, certainly for its price point. The last time I attended the opera, I was at high and far from the stage at the Metropolitan, when I heard Anna Netrebko sing in Don Pasquale. I took an Eagle Optics 6x32, for its small size more and very adequate power.

In any case, early models of binoculars often fall prey to unanticipated design faults. A little reticence in purchasing something new may be prudential.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:

BP,

It is funny you should mention that. I had the same thoughts when reading the CL thread. I see no problem with justifying 95% of top tier optical performance for half the price. Following that same logic it easily makes sense to justify 99% of the optical performance of the top tier (thinking edge performance here and only in comparison to the SV) for 1/5th, or less, the price.

Aren't you talking about the percentage estimates of individual opinions?

Bob

"Opinion governs the world." Blaise Pascal

"It might even govern binoculars." Bob the Philosopher

jgraider said:

As a Swaro SLC HD owner, and a Zen ED2 owner, all I have to say is.........you bet they belong in the alpha glass category. They guys that don't want to believe it are the brainwashed guys who have $2000 euros around their neck. I may just get the ED3 since they're an upgrade to an already great glass, the ED2.

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I recently had the opportunity to audition three samples of the 8x42 Vortex Raptor HD which apparently is a clone of the Zen-Ray ED2. The Raptor is a well built and very attractive binocular. I wanted very much to like it but I could not get used to the fuzzy edges. I guess my Nikon EDG spoiled me as far as good edge performance is concerned. I returned the Raptors and waited for the Zen-Ray ED3 to arrive. Well, it was worth the wait! The refinements that Zen-Ray has engineered into the ED3 take a very good bin and elevate it to an alpha class binocular. The edge performance is much better and no longer a distraction. The increase in useable eye-relief is much appreciated as I wear glasses when using bins. The new coatings have made the ED3 a better performer in low light and high contrast situations. The new, understated design and armoring improved the ergonomics and gave it the look a fine instrument like this deserves.
All this to say that IMO the ED3 is enough of an improvement over the ED2 to warrant an audition by current ED2 owners. For those looking for a binocular that performs at the very highest level you would do well to add the ED3 to your list alongside those venerable stalwarts from Europe and Japan. You will be quite surprised.

ED3 8x43 recieved them today

got my ED3's today and at first glace i was very impressed they have a swaro look and feel,it was overcast here most of the day but these were still very nice to use and super good in low light but today was kinda of hazey here from all the rain we had kind of like a light fog in the air if it dries up tomorrow i will be able to get a better view,they do have better E/R then the ED2 8x43 and thats good for me with my glasses but to get a really good look thru them i want to take them out on a sunny day and use them its hard to get a good view thru them with all the moisture in the air here but they are crisp and clear and i do like the rear tripod mount on the rear hinge thats nice i hooked the Raptor Digiscope bracket and tripod mount up from Zen and put the wifes little pocket fuji on it with my ambico tripod and it worked great.
its gonna take some getting use to the focus its pretty easy to over focus its really amazing the sweet spot on these you really just need to barely touch the focus wheel i just need to get used to them,i was used to the ed2's
these ED3's are a very nice bin i am very impressed with the improvements they made above the ED2 :t:

Ted

these ED3's 8x43 are awesome

i have had a chance to use these ED3's a little more and these things are awesome it really amazes me how they took a great bin the ED2 and improved it,these are as of right now the best glass i have looked thru as far as sharpness and clarity go and i don't think the swaro SLC i tried was any brighter and they were the SV model how can the Zen Ray get any better,i think a couple people called it right when they said they are alpha class with the ergonomic changes they have made they are not just a cheap made bin these are alpha GLASS also for what these cost you sure are getting one heck of a pair of binos

Ted,

Thanks for the update. I did have a chance to use my ED3's yesterday up at the local hawkwatch for the first time this season. I also took along a few other pairs from my selection. The ED3's were easily the sharpest, brightest and had the most neutral color representation of the group. The image "tone" reminded me very much of the 7x42 Zeiss FL's that I was so fond of. In fact the overall image qualities were very comparable. The faster focusing speed made shifting from distant raptors to close songbirds extremely easy. I had no problem pulling out the smallest details and colorations in both the birds of prey and the little "tweeties" that happened to be in and around the hawkwatch.

I do have to say that these will be my full-time hawkwatching bins.....

...until they come up with something better....like maybe that 7x43 configuration that was mentioned a month or so ago.

Frank

i had these out a little bit today again and they are realy nice to look thru,Charles told me the 7x43 would be available after christmas i am getting to the point where i think i may need the 7x soon it is getting harder for me to hold the 8x super still but these will be with me for a long time,its amazing where technology is going...........Whats Next?

After Christmas?

Oh, I hope not. I don't know if I can wait that long...plus I won't have the money right after the Christmas holiday.



I have no idea what is next for them but I know what I would like to see.

1) An expansion of the current ED3 line to include a 30-32 mm model and possibly a 20-25 mm compact.

2) A 50 or 65 mm ED scope to compliment the 82 mm ED2 .

3) An universal 1.25 inch astro adapter for the entire scope lineup
.
4) Maybe replace the ZRS HD with a less expensive ED glass model which would be competitive with something like the Bushnell Legend Ultra HD ($200-$250 price point). It wouldn't be competitive with the ED3s if they went with a conventional single hinge design and restricted the field of view a bit or went with silver prism coatings instead of dielectric.

5) Pull out all the stops and come up with something totally new that none of us have suggested at this point. ;

I take it the period store was all sold out?

FrankD said:

....

5) Pull out all the stops and come up with something totally new that none of us have suggested at this point.

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This idea has been suggested, but it still would be so astonishing, astounding,amazing, startling, unexpected, unanticipated, unforeseen, unpredicted, "out of the box," extraordinary, remarkable, and even a bit overwhelming (don't read the announcement on your Blackberry while you're on your horse or driving your Dodge Ram truck), and that is a new line of internal focus, waterproof, premium quality porros.

Not just because consumers are hungry for such a product, not just because this market segment is almost completely wide open and has little competition, not just to honor the legacy of Ignazio Porro, not just to prove Dennis wrong (even though that alone would be worth it , but to boldly go where no company has gone since Minox and Leupold both tried the idea, and apparently unsuccessfully since both porros are now gone, and I think chiefly because both bin lines had rather stingy fields of view. In Leupold's case, I think it was also the shoddy mechanics - focusers that varied from stiff to herky jerky and a spindly on the focuser diopter wheel with pointy tines that would no doubt break in time.

Porros are noted for the wide fields so it's what most people expect to see in a porro, not 6.5* like a mid-priced roof or 5* in the tens. To compete with the better roofs out there today, they also need better designed and better manufactured mechanics.

While the Leupold 8x42 Cascades didn't have premium optics, they were good quality enough that if I hadn't felt like I was looking out a ship porthole when I looked through them, I would have a pair now (though one with a smoother focuser). The ergonomics were among the very best I've tried.

It's time for an optics company to "pull out all the stops" and reach for the stars and make high quality, wide field (not EXTRA wide, we don't want too much pincushion), internal focus porro binoculars.

Personally, WPing isn't make or it break it for me, but it is for many birders. Once they see how much better the 3-D view and depth perception is in a high quality porro, they will slap their foreheads and wonder why the hell they spent $2,000 for a wpremium roof to get the same quality view, w/out the more natural looking 3-D effect.

All we need is a commitment from some bold entrepreneur with a line of credit to attain this lofty and noble goal - the talent and wherewithal will follow.

Who will step up and meet the challenge, and say?

We choose to build high quality, wide field, internal focus porros. We choose to build these new porros in this decade, not because it will be easy, but because it will be hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win.

BFK

Brock,

Speaking of which, did you happen to see that internal focus, wide-field porro made by xi'an that I posted in Dennis's porro thread?

Oh, and I added a period or two in my previous post. Thank you for catching that. ;-)

I wonder... (just thinking out loud here)...
Why is the focus wheel so close to the oculars in truly internally focusing porro's? (Like the Chinese one in Franks link.) The reason why I would consider buying a porro in the first place has nothing to do with enhanced 3-D vision, but with practical use only. A wide focus roll on the central hinge preferably as close as possible to the objectives would allow one to be able to focus comfortably under the bill of a cap, or hat, which I'm wearing in the rain to keep my specs dry.
A Swift Audubon porro with internal focusing would be quite nice, you'd lose the sloppy bridge this otherwise excellent binocular is infamous for, stretch the eyerelief a bit too, and there you'd have your 100% waterproof JIS 7 porro model that would be a fine alternative for the overpriced roofs!

Best regards,

Ronald