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Scottish Government To Overturn Decision to Save SSSI (1 Viewer)

As previously mentioned, Aberdeen Journals seem to have lost the plot with constructive balanced journalism with the proposal. It was interesting that the electronic poll which Aberdeen journals was running, was pulled late on the 4th Dec', early 5th Dec'. At that time, the poll was circa 58.3% against the proposal, compared to a 41.7% vote for. It is strange that the majority of letters published by the journals seem to be from those in favour. I know several persons who are against the proposal in it's current form, who have written to the journals, but seem to have been forgotten by the editors. I wonder if there is an attempt to manipulate the current perceptions to the for, when the majority of the voting public may actually be against it.
Perhaps they, the voting public, have already seen the roads fiasco when a semi-large golf tournament is being played close to Aberdeen. (2 years ago at Royal Aberdeen, North (coastal) end of Aberdeen at a standstill, just like when the oil exhibition(s) are on).

Ps, the Scottish Parliament did refuse planning permission for a wind farm, which was already passed by councillors, due to the proposal encroachment into a SSSi.


Regards

Malky
 
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griffin said:
Couldn't agree more. The 'figures' concerning economic benefit have conveniently been kept secret by Aberdeenshire Council - they are not open for scrutiny or examination. Wonder why.
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can't you invoke the freedom of information act? Usually, public bodies can dodge issues, but if someones requests information specifically quoting rhe act, they have to comply.


griffin said:
Maybe Salmonds mindset should be ' Scotland isn't open for mugging'
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or maybe: Scotland's conservation laws and natural heritage aren't for bending in direct proportion to the wad of dollars and hollow prestige waved in front of Salmon's fat face?
 
I just signed the Downing Street petition.
At present it has 4, 617 signatures.

There is a petition to support the development that has 13,620 signatures.

:-C
 
Thanks all for your interest - please let others know. It's important to sign the petitions so thank you to all of you that have so far. There has been no publicity given to this petition in the local press, and many local people have no idea of the other side of the argument, thinking this is just a golf course. Some don't even seem to be aware that there is a SSSI involved!

Beware all of you who enjoy the delights of a nature reserve on your doorstep - if this thing goes forward, it won't matter where you are in the UK, a precedent for development will have been set.

There is another meeting at Woodhill House at 10.15am on Wednesday - open for public attendance. The whole council will be discussing the plans and a motion by Cllr John Cox to remove the Chair of the Committee who cast the deciding vote to throw the plan out.

We must speak up for those things we value - as always, the habitats we enjoy and the wildlife they support have no voice (except us). Thanks to all of you who have spoken up.

I will keep the news updated on this issue as it unfolds.
 
Banana Republic

Capercaillie71 said:
I haven't been hugely keen on Salmond in the past, but on this issue he seems to have been playing his cards close to his chest (particularly as he is MSP for the area involved). He has been criticised locally for not speaking out more in favour of the golf course and in fact the other day he described the criticism of the council's refusal of the planning application as 'unhelpful'. I'll reserve judgement until we see what happens, but he is a politician, so I won't hold out too much hope ;)
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This news item possibly shows the true colours of Salmond and the SNP:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/north_east/7135266.stm

The decision on whether the application goes ahead rests with John Swinney, a man I would trust about as far as I could throw him ! I am sure Mr. Salmond will be 'advising' him though. Nice to see the opposition parties get behind the 'no' campaign even if it is primarily to highlight the apparent inpropriety of Aberdeenshire Council and possibly the Scottish Government as well. They had better be careful given their recent mudslinging over the Wendy Alexander fiasco.

Seems unfair that 'one' man will make apparently the decision. Great thing democracy, eh ?


Lindsay


PS in the spirit of democracy Aberdeenshire Council are holding an emergency meeting on Wednesday to, amongst other things, attempt to pass a no confidence motion to remove the chairman of the Infractructure Services Committee who, by a majority of 9 to 5 rejected Trump's uncompromising planning application as it would severely affect a SSSI.
 
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alcedo.atthis said:
Ps, the Scottish Parliament did refuse planning permission for a wind farm, which was already passed by councillors, due to the proposal encroachment into a SSSi.
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This wasn't the same Aberdeen Bay Windfarm that Trump also objected to as 'it would ruin the view' from his hotel is it ? ;) Pots and Kettles and all that, as his hotel will be the largest blot on the North East landscape, the largest building locally being a third of the length of Union Street and visible from 10 miles away from inland.

As I recall he bullied the council on that as well stating he would not 'invest' ( I use that word loosely) if the windfarm got the go ahead. Now I know windfarms are a contentious issue and have both pros and cons, but again talk about 'pandering' to him.

This man is a bully, period, and will never listen to alternative solutions or compromise his position. Say NO to him and his false promises !

Lindsay
 
griffin said:
in the spirit of democracy Aberdeenshire Council are holding an emergency meeting on Wednesday to, amongst other things, attempt to pass a no confidence motion to remove the chairman of the Infractructure Services Committee who, by a majority of 9 to 5 rejected Trump's uncompromising planning application as it would severely affect a SSSI.
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He's been sacked. That's very wrong.

Whilst I have an open mind about the development, it clearly had to be knocked back to force concessions from the developer, i.e. preserve the SSSI. Ford is a legend for having the nuts to use his casting vote to do so.
 
Living near to the proposed development I am yet to meet anyone who is in complete support. Nobody believes that it will bring any long term benefits to the area or jobs to the locals.
There are also claims that there is a 95% backing for the project, perhaps within the business community who stand to make a lot out of this.
The press coverage has been quite disgraceful and you begin to wonder how much was paid for the advertising a while ago. As for the one line survey, something very strange happened to that. I checked it one evening and as stated by others it was around 58% against. The following morning there were 75% for it and then it closed. Its starting to turn very ugly.
I'm not opposed to a golf development, but why on a SSSI and against all laws that apply to normal people. Also anyone who knows the area will be aware that this is one of the worst places in the summer for fog, which would effectively kill off any chance of the Open. Or does Mr trump have influence over somebody a lot higher up as well.
 
Forgive the deviation from subjetc, but do y'all reckon petitions and the like are taken seriously by those in office?. Serious question - I'm not having a pop at anyone above.

I imagine that many of them are fairly easily manipulated. There are also thousands of on-line petitions on the go at any one time for and against just about everything imaginable, often signed by well intentioned folk.

281,834 people voted at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ against a 'Super Mosque' next to the Olympic site at Newham before the petition was closed. The Mosque had never even been proposed. Clearly none of these people did the 10 seconds of research required to form a proper opinion of this (or were they just enjoying the prank?).

Obviously there is little harm in it, but can anyone take these polls seriously?.
 
Big Phil said:
He's been sacked. That's very wrong.

Whilst I have an open mind about the development, it clearly had to be knocked back to force concessions from the developer, i.e. preserve the SSSI. Ford is a legend for having the nuts to use his casting vote to do so.
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I am afraid that "Trump Tonight" and "Reporting Tartanland" have got their 'facts' wrong yet again. Martin Ford was removed as chairman of the ISC - he has not been sacked as a councillor.

His removal is a disgrace. Why have a planning Committee at all ? Why does Chief Executive of Aberdeenshire Council Alan Campbell not just simply decide these matters on his own from now on as this would save tax payers money!? For those of you who don't know Mr. Campbell he was the one 'holding' Trump's right hand man George Sorial's hand throughout the hearing. Say's it all really. They argued Mr. Ford had "an agenda" and thus his views could not be taken with confidence. Okay, then what is Mr. Campbell's agenda....think we all know the answer to that one. But he can keep his post.

Aberdeenshire Council were worried that the ISC's decision would send out the wrong message that the Council could not deal with big business developments. On the contrary it proved that they could - following their own planning policy and recommendations to the letter. This recent enforced 'turnaround' actually proves that they can't deal with big business as they are effectively pandering to anyone who comes along with a fat wallet at the expense of their own integrity, planning policies and our natural heritage.

It is worth mentioning (again) that the applicant, Mr. Trump, has still not appealed the decision.
 
Pete58 said:
Also anyone who knows the area will be aware that this is one of the worst places in the summer for fog, which would effectively kill off any chance of the Open. Or does Mr trump have influence over somebody a lot higher up as well.
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Believe me Pete this course hasn't got a hope in hell of EVER hosting the British Open, with or without the sea Haar ! I agree it can be bad there though. This 'worthy of hosting the open' crap is simply rhetoric and spin to con gullible people even more into believing it will be a 'great thing'. It will merely be an exclusive 'country club' village for rich Americans. Nothing that man puts his name to is ever 'great' IMO.

I agree with everything in your post and I have yet to find anyone who totally supports it and even then that can't be turned completely against it with some simple facts, facts which the media seem oblivious to.

Anyone who thinks it will bring any lasting prosperity to the NE economy are presumably also the sort of people who move their lips when they read. It will make Trump a few bob though.....

Only a PLI will expose the real facts concerning this whole debacle - who was paid by who, who met with who when they shouldn't, which councillors and officials have received 'hospitatility' etc. The fact that the media has been so pro-Trump is also highly suspicious, including the BBC who should be impartial. I thought journalists were supposed to report the news not make it ?
 
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Big Phil said:
Forgive the deviation from subjetc, but do y'all reckon petitions and the like are taken seriously by those in office?. Serious question - I'm not having a pop at anyone above.

I imagine that many of them are fairly easily manipulated. There are also thousands of on-line petitions on the go at any one time for and against just about everything imaginable, often signed by well intentioned folk.

281,834 people voted at http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/ against a 'Super Mosque' next to the Olympic site at Newham before the petition was closed. The Mosque had never even been proposed. Clearly none of these people did the 10 seconds of research required to form a proper opinion of this (or were they just enjoying the prank?).

Obviously there is little harm in it, but can anyone take these polls seriously?.
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Well firstly Phil, this issue clearly does exist, and yes, it does count, especially given that there has been one set up directly against it on the same site, and which, unfortunately is getting promoted by our biased local press.

As for easy manipulation, all petitions set up at the Downing Street site require a full name and address, so I would suggest that this is not the case here - signers can rest assured that this is being done properly.

Anyone who feels they would like more details about this development can view the planning application and all supplementary material at http://www.aberdeenshire.gov.uk/planning/apps/detail.asp?ref_no=APP/2006/4605

It has also been drawn to my attention that there is no guarantee of a reply from the Scottish Ministers' email address supplied in my original post, however, all relevant individual addresses can be found at http://www.scottish.parliament.uk/business/research/factsheets/documents/MSPemailaddresses.pdf

I think I should point out here that if this SSSI is compromised, whatever you happen to think about this particular piece of land, it will have repercussions UK wide - there will be nowhere safe from the greedy hands of developers. It is important that we keep our environmentally sensitive areas safe - the SSSI at Menie has been a protected site since 1984. And it's also worth pointing out that it would be perfectly possible for the developer in this case to redesign the course to avoid the SSSI, and this is in fact what everyone is asking for - so far bluntly refused by the Trump Organisation.

Arguably, with the events of late (removing the Chairman from the Infrastructure Committee), and scandal with government figures accused of accepting hospitality from Trump when they should be staying neutral, and a local press with only one song to sing, there has NEVER been a more important time to stand up and demand that our environment is protected for ourselves and future generations.
 
griffin said:
I agree with everything in your post and I have yet to find anyone who totally supports it
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I've been wondering about this for several days. Everyone I speak to locally about this Trump development has serious reservations about it and I've not met anyone who even knows anyone totally in favour. That suggests that either the media/politicians are out of touch and exaggerating the levle of local support for the development, or else there are two completely separate societies in the north-east of Scotland that never talk to each other!
 
For some reason, Capercaillie71, the D C Thomson / Aberdeen Journals are completely biased towards this development. It certainly makes me wonder what is going on here. There must be quite a lot in it for some, because as you say, there are too many folk who have concerns about this whose voices seem to get squashed at every opportunity. I say, if there are so many advantages with this development, then where's the harm in presenting both sides and having a debate? Many folk, including myself, are not entirely against the concept of a golf course on the basis that it doesn't encroach on the SSSI, and on the basis that the area isn't turned into a new town. The Aberdeenshire Local Plan was endorsed just 18-months ago, was widely consulted and set out to ensure responsible planning for the future. It seems however, that despite good sensible legislation being available here, those shackled to this development are doing their utmost to force this through at any cost. We must ask why. We must also in the meantime, ensure that our laws aren't compromised in such a fashion that they become useless in the future, once the floodgates are let open. I believe that there are a number of developments now 'in the wings' looking on to see if they can have a bite of the cherry themselves...
 
Big Phil said:
Forgive the deviation from subjetc, but do y'all reckon petitions and the like are taken seriously by those in office?. Serious question - I'm not having a pop at anyone above.
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Polls seem to be taken very seriously, as they're the only handle on public opinion that politicians have. Look at the recent non-election in the UK - the only reason Gordon Brown didn't call an election was because of an unfavourable poll result, despite having spent a month talking it up and the Labour Party hiring election workers. But one bad poll a few days before and he pulls the plug.

All you have to do is watch how policy follows the headlines to see how much public opinion and polls matter. They seem to be a major driver. Except when it comes to Iraq!
 
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