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What causes this. (1 Viewer)

black crow

Well-known member
When looking through your binoculars you will see a mirror like ring of light right at the edge of the view where it should be blackened. I have this really bad on the Zen Ray 7x36 with the 477 ft fov. My friend sees this somewhat in her new Nikon Monarch 8x30s. She hates it and is ready to return them and I can see why, it's totally distracting. I see it a little bit in other binoculars but nothing like the Zens. I'm going to sell them very cheap just so I never have to see that mirror ring again.

What would cause that?
 
When looking through your binoculars you will see a mirror like ring of light right at the edge of the view where it should be blackened. I have this really bad on the Zen Ray 7x36 with the 477 ft fov. My friend sees this somewhat in her new Nikon Monarch 8x30s. She hates it and is ready to return them and I can see why, it's totally distracting. I see it a little bit in other binoculars but nothing like the Zens. I'm going to sell them very cheap just so I never have to see that mirror ring again.

What would cause that?

You're possibly too close to the rear eyelens and are looking past the field stop. :cat:

Bill
 
When looking through your binoculars you will see a mirror like ring of light right at the edge of the view where it should be blackened. I have this really bad on the Zen Ray 7x36 with the 477 ft fov. My friend sees this somewhat in her new Nikon Monarch 8x30s. She hates it and is ready to return them and I can see why, it's totally distracting. I see it a little bit in other binoculars but nothing like the Zens. I'm going to sell them very cheap just so I never have to see that mirror ring again.

What would cause that?
There were long threads on the ZR 7x36's and the Nikon M7 8x30's when they came out and there was a lot of discussion about veiling glare. It sounds like something similar to what you are observing. I don't remember if the problem was resolved or not. Here are the threads.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=148800&highlight=Zen+Ray+7x36+rings
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=264440&highlight=nikon+monarch+8x30+veiling+glare
 
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I can only speak on the M7s and whether this helps your friend (or you) or not i don't know. When all the discussion about the M7 8x30 was in full flood, i spent a lot of time with them trying different techniques. What i use now is - despite not wearing glasses - is retracting the eyecups completely, and looking 'through' them, rather than into them. Took about 15-20 minutes to get used to, but now i see full FoV a very impressive view indeed. Just for the sake of your own curiosity, perhaps give it a go with them....
i'm doing the same with the Eiis (and any other small bins) as the technique now is second nature. In the great tradition of BF, i'll call it FYOER (find your own eye relief!)
 
There were long threads on the ZR 7x36's and the Nikon M7 8x30's when they came out and there was a lot of discussion about veiling glare. It sounds like something similar to what you are observing. I don't remember if the problem was resolved or not. Here are the threads.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=148800&highlight=Zen+Ray+7x36+rings
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=264440&highlight=nikon+monarch+8x30+veiling+glare

That's a lot of pages to look through to find the subject. Both of those threads are like 10 pages or more. 3:) It's like that good book I'll never read because it's a tomb.
 
I can only speak on the M7s and whether this helps your friend (or you) or not i don't know. When all the discussion about the M7 8x30 was in full flood, i spent a lot of time with them trying different techniques. What i use now is - despite not wearing glasses - is retracting the eyecups completely, and looking 'through' them, rather than into them. Took about 15-20 minutes to get used to, but now i see full FoV a very impressive view indeed. Just for the sake of your own curiosity, perhaps give it a go with them....
i'm doing the same with the Eiis (and any other small bins) as the technique now is second nature. In the great tradition of BF, i'll call it FYOER (find your own eye relief!)

Not sure what you are saying.("Through" rather than "into"??)

I think I see the full fov but I also see that mirror like ring of light at the very edge of the view.
 
How i use them is with the oculars in front of my eyes, but not with my eyes jammed against them. The only trick is the technique of keeping the eye pieces in line with your eyes - makes you feel a bit robotic (like some kind of 1980s performance art). Once you have it, it's a very relaxed technique; not for everybody, i'm sure, but works for me.
I haven't figured out why it works, as it's seemingly outside the published eye relief, but i'm occasionally doing it with my scope now too, and it works equally well.
I'm not sure everything really needs a scientific explanation....
 
You're possibly too close to the rear eyelens and are looking past the field stop. :cat:

Bill

I tried looking for a simple definition of "field stop" for beginners but I couldn't find one that I could understand. Is the field stop where the view ends and the black circle begins? And how does one look past that? Sorry for being simple minded but this is not something I understand at all. Can I begin to grok this by moving my eye closer or further away from the eye lens? And how does one know if they are seeing the full field of view in any binocular?
Before you explain remember I'm having trouble understanding this. I was serious ADD as a kid due to a high anxiety home life and never learned anything at all in school when it came to tech stuff and math and all that. I'm virtually retarded in this capacity.

If this is too difficult for such types just say that and I'll drop this discussion and no harm done.

I think that's why I gave up on finding out last time years back with the Zens and it's really only been a serious issue on that one Zen binocular. On others I only see little bits of this "veiling glare" if that is what I'm meaning.
 
Hello Black Crow,

I believe that the ring of light may have been a design fault in the Zen-Ray 7x36 ED2: a shiny internal part. It was resolved in later production.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
Thanks, it's totally distracting and had I not been very new to optics and very ignorant of what was decent or usual good quality I would have returned it at once. It's too distracting to be fun to use and a real bummer because everything else was excellent imo. Seems silly to design a product with such a serious flaw and not notice. I think for myself I'm done with start up companies. Some may be great but it's a real risk imo. Now they don't even have a warranty. Lesson learned. I hope. lol
 
BC, i dont have ADD, my deficiencies are in other areas. i have also been reading up on binoculars on this and other forums (cant afford the unmentionable Bill book yet).

often when writing people inadvertently expect a basic understanding of terms and the physics so one can go in circles.

my understanding is that the field stop is the black edge of the circle we see. different designs place the field stop producing mechanism at the eyepiece or sometimes elsewhere internally . a baffle designed to cut back on the edge effects of cheaper glass may also be used as, or act as a field stop. i really think it doesnt matter at my stage, and possibly yours, what produces an effect, although one wants to resolve it and understand it ultimately.

if others knowledgeable of the particular device rather than generally offer solutions such as pulling back the eye, i try it and see if it affects other parameters. in my case it does, the 8 effect grows, movement in and out of the hinge does not fix this in fact black areas appear in the fov and eye angle is more critical. so in my case the shiny ring of rainbow is something i have to accept. you dont, sell the things, you have plenty more, and to use an analogy, if your Ford is good and you also have a Toyota, when you try the Suzuki and find the view invthe screen is wonky, well get rid of it! you can always try a Hondanext week ....

dont take that as condescending, i know you like to talk and learn, but why waste your time on the Suzuki? i used that analogy because you once owned a spanner. you can go back to optical physics anytime you wish and ignore me. i would rather leave it to Bill and the others. and i cant find your comparison review, did you write it?

and a final btw i need a millionaire gf, i need an intro please ....
 
While experimenting with my 'small bins, retracted eyecups' thing - if you get the figure of eight effect, you've gone too far. I'm talking about hovering just off where your eyes would be if the eyecups were up.
As i said, this won't work for everyone - IPD, deep-set eyes etc. could all come into it.
The original thought came from my FL 8x32s: i was certain i wasn't getting the full FoV with the eyecups fully out, and (on a fairly birdless day) started fiddling with it. I found the ideal was one-click-down, bins tucked against eyebrows and face slightly angled back. So - what were they like with the cups retracted?
Amazing field, but vignetting - so i just pulled my head back a bit, and there it was, although harder to keep eye placement just right.
For some reason (and perhaps the difference between 30mm and 32mm) the retracted-cups idea isn't necessary (or as easy) with the FLs, but i relaunched the concept with the M7s, and it worked. No idea why, and don't really care.
I'm just not sure if 'eye relief' as stated translates to the individual head....physiology probably comes into it too, and sometimes a bit of experimentation can save your relationship with your binoculars.
 
Forgot about the 'field stop' thing, but it's here where i might be blundering into things i know little about, but it's just how i understood it.
As far as i know, it is concerned with the design of the ocular lenses, and is literally where the designer has decided to 'stop the field'. There may be cases where - if it goes too far out - the sweet spot is only about 40% of the available view. If too far in, the binoculars can appear like looking through a couple of Pringles tubes.
So, as far as i'm concerned, it's a design issue around the ocular lenses - but i could be wrong and quite happy to be corrected if there's another explanation about which doesn't involve tangents or pi to 5 decimal places.
I suppose it would be pointless to have a 10 degree FoV if most of it is muck.
 
The observer's observations are what matter.
If, after trying a binocular for a while and it doesn't suit, it doesn't suit. There are other binoculars that will be O.K.

A millionaire girlfriend comes with demands that might not be that attractive after all.

355/113 gives Pi to 6 decimal places. We knew this as school kids. Unfortunately with reliance on calculators and now computers people are at a lost without their help.

22/7 gives Pi to 2 or 3 decimal places.

When we had pounds, shillings and pence many folks could add up groceries in their heads, and not necessarily numerate people. With decimals all this ability is lost.
 
That's a lot of pages to look through to find the subject. Both of those threads are like 10 pages or more. 3:) It's like that good book I'll never read because it's a tomb.
At the top right there is a search thread option. Search for "glare" and it will give you just the posts with glare in them.
 
BC, i dont have ADD, my deficiencies are in other areas. i have also been reading up on binoculars on this and other forums (cant afford the unmentionable Bill book yet).

often when writing people inadvertently expect a basic understanding of terms and the physics so one can go in circles.

my understanding is that the field stop is the black edge of the circle we see. different designs place the field stop producing mechanism at the eyepiece or sometimes elsewhere internally . a baffle designed to cut back on the edge effects of cheaper glass may also be used as, or act as a field stop. i really think it doesnt matter at my stage, and possibly yours, what produces an effect, although one wants to resolve it and understand it ultimately.

if others knowledgeable of the particular device rather than generally offer solutions such as pulling back the eye, i try it and see if it affects other parameters. in my case it does, the 8 effect grows, movement in and out of the hinge does not fix this in fact black areas appear in the fov and eye angle is more critical. so in my case the shiny ring of rainbow is something i have to accept. you dont, sell the things, you have plenty more, and to use an analogy, if your Ford is good and you also have a Toyota, when you try the Suzuki and find the view invthe screen is wonky, well get rid of it! you can always try a Hondanext week ....

dont take that as condescending, i know you like to talk and learn, but why waste your time on the Suzuki? i used that analogy because you once owned a spanner. you can go back to optical physics anytime you wish and ignore me. i would rather leave it to Bill and the others. and i cant find your comparison review, did you write it?

and a final btw i need a millionaire gf, i need an intro please ....

Thanks I understood every word of that. OK I think I can talk to my friend about this a little bit now. I will sell of my Zens but with that flaw and without a warranty it might be easier to give them away. Someone new to binoculars might be thrilled with them for may $50-75. I would and a newbie would just ignore that ring as I did for a little bit. If they stay off the Birdforum maybe forever. 3:)
 
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