Alpha porros? (1 Viewer)

Now that I have seen the EII and believe I'm wondering about other similar optics.

Has anyone compared the EII against the Swarovski Optik Habicht Binoculars, 8x30mm?

They seem to be for sale on Amazon at about twice what the EII is going for. Are they worth double the cost?

Black Crow’s question Seems like a reasonable question to me.

Not offensive. Relevant to the forum.

I deleted my response to my own OP Interoception because I found it not relevant and unnecessary so I removed it. The Mods had no hand in it.

If I May, I shall chuck another contender in there. What about the opticron sr. ga 8x32? They seems similar to the other two mentioned and I've read a few threads on the opticrons that seem quite highly praised on here.

Whadda ya think? :h?:

I have both of those binoculars. IMO the Swarovski has only two advantages, considerably higher light transmission and color accuracy (at least compared to my 15 year old EII) and waterproofing.

The EII has a wider field, longer eye relief, lower aberrations both on and off-axis, a less stiff focus and much better glare resistance.

Yes I read that in a review. The reviewer did some modifications himself to help with the glare issue and had Swarovski repair guys unstiffen the focuser a little bit. What caught my attention was the higher light transmission and color accuracy. The EII seem very bright compared against my Kowa Genesis 8x33 but the reviewer went on and on about how much brighter the Swarovski bino was. He called the EII dark so it must really be something.

I have a another question(s) for you. If you could keep only one, which one would it be and why? And how big an issue is the glare problem for you? I find glare really bugs me compared to other issues in binoculars. And thanks for the information I appreciate it. I'm really excited about this style of binocular. I've never seen anything like the 3d effect I see in the EII and I really love it. I just bought a second pair so I wouldn't worry about using them in most situations.

I had both of those binoculars. IMO, the Swarovski Habicht 8X30 has one main advantage over the 8X30 EII and it's a big one for me...Waterproofing! In my region, we're constantly bombarded with high humidity 3 seasons of the year. If not such a realistic concern for you, then the EII certainly, as has been said for a long time here on BF, yields not just a top notch view to compete with the little Swaro, but is able to sit alongside any of the best glass made!!

As far as a direct comparison, HERE are my comments for the brief week I had both side-by-side!

Ted

For anyone interested in how to modify the Habicht. Here's the article and review of this bino.
http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/a...vski/swarohabicht8x30w/swarohabicht8x30w.html

Theo98 said:

I had both of those binoculars. IMO, the Swarovski Habicht 8X30 has one main advantage over the 8X30 EII and it's a big one for me...Waterproofing! In my region, we're constantly bombarded with high humidity 3 seasons of the year. If not such a realistic concern for you, then the EII certainly, as has been said for a long time here on BF, yields not just a top notch view to compete with the little Swaro, but is able to sit alongside any of the best glass made!!

As far as a direct comparison, HERE are my comments for the brief week I had both side-by-side!

Ted

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Thanks for sharing your review. I've read that although not waterproof the EII can take some humidity and that writer had used them in jungles with no issues. He took reasonable care of course and kept them out of direct rain. I've been in the jungle and the humidity there is something to experience. Especially combined with heat. Where I live humidity is no a problem in the too much sense. We often have too little.

Hi,

there is only a few Porro designs which can be regarded as alphas - first of all, the Nikon SE series, unfortunately only available used now and the Fujinon FMT-SX series which is mainly for astro and marine use (the bins have individual focus and even the smalles ones - currently 7x50 and 10x50 - are very heavy).

Joachim

I read somewhere that the Habicht was considered by that writer at least possibly the best porro in the world. Maybe it's a matter of opinion on that but I'd think it could be at least considered an alpha. Even the EII on Allbinos consider it the 8th best optic they have tested if I remember right and a personal favorite of theirs.

Whether it's an actual alpha or not after viewing the EII and comparing it to my Swarovskis and Kowa Genesis I consider it an alpha. In the subjective world of binoculars I guess that's good enough for me.

I can't believe I'm talking like this lol.:-O I was warned if I stuck around this could happen. :t:

black crow said:

I read somewhere that the Habicht was considered by that writer at least possibly the best porro in the world. Maybe it's a matter of opinion on that but I'd think it could be at least considered an alpha. Even the EII on Allbinos consider it the 8th best optic they have tested if I remember right and a personal favorite of theirs.

Whether it's an actual alpha or not after viewing the EII and comparing it to my Swarovskis and Kowa Genesis I consider it an alpha. In the subjective world of binoculars I guess that's good enough for me.

I can't believe I'm talking like this lol.:-O I was warned if I stuck around this could happen. :t:

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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there are No Known Cures! :eek!: :-C

jring said:

Hi,

there is only a few Porro designs which can be regarded as alphas - first of all, the Nikon SE series, unfortunately only available used now and the Fujinon FMT-SX series which is mainly for astro and marine use (the bins have individual focus and even the smalles ones - currently 7x50 and 10x50 - are very heavy).

Joachim

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I think only alpha brands qualify as alphas, but when it comes to superb porros, are you intentionally excluding the Canon 10x42 L IS, Nikon 7x50 ProStar, Swift 8.5x44 Audubon 804 ED, just to mention a few that might qualify, off the top of my head?

--AP

Hi Black Crow. In 8x30/32, I've had 1 pair of Opticron SRGA, 2 of Habicht, 3 of SE, and 5 of EII, over the last twenty years. This is how deep this rabbit hole of insanity goes. I now have one pair of SE. All of the above are superb porros, and none have clear advantages over the others in all respects. However, my firm favourite is the SE. To appreciate it fully, you need to use it for a few months. Get used to its quirks, learn to love it. Alternatively, stick with what you have, the EII, which is just as good a bino as SE/Habicht/SRGA, but different in some respects. If this obsession has taught me anything (other than the meaning of 'Credit Card Declined'), it's that you can't have it all in one binocular.

A couple of comments on the Habicht:

1. All three of them have one real problem - the stiffish focuser. It gets somewhat better with use, but it'll never be as smooth as, say, the focuser of the Nikon SE. That's the price you pay for them being waterproof porros.

2. All three of them are classic porros that were designed over 50 years ago. No problem with that, there are plenty of porros designed more than 50 years ago that - with modern coatings, that the Habicht has - could compete with any roof on the market today as far as the image quality IN THE CENTER is concerned. But the Habicht, and that applies to all three models, with its (relatively) simple eyepieces, simply isn't as "easy" to use as as a binocular with modern, large eyepieces. They don't have a flat field, like e.g. the Swarovisions or the Nikon SE, and all three models are also quite difficult (or, depending on the glasses, impossible) to use for people wearing glasses.

3. All three models are quite light for their specifications, and due to their simple, old-fashioned construction easy to service. They are also pretty tough, especially the 7x42 GA and the 10x40 GA. Their armour is a far cry from the soft, rubbery stuff used by most manufacturers nowadys, rather it's a military grade rubber armour (the 7x42 is still used by the Austrian army among others). I've been told by people who should know that if they were to start living on a small island in the middle of nowhere, they'd prefer to take a rubber armoured Habicht over any modern roof. There's nothing much that can go wrong unless you drop them hard on rocks.

4. That said, there are quite clearcut differences between the three models:

- The 7x42 is the odd one out because of its (very) narrow field of view. It has very simple eyepieces (reversed Kellners, as far as I know). However, the optical quality is quite outstanding. There are virtually NO problems with veiling glare, and the transmission is IMO even higher than that of the other two models. In addition, the stiffish focuser isn't that much of a problem due to it being only 7x.

- The 8x30 and the 10x40 have more complex eyepieces (Erfle). Of these two the 8x30 has got rather clearcut problems with veiling glare. Henry explained the reasons behind this years ago. The 10x40 is much, much better in that respect. I don't think it's quite as good optically as some of the top roofs, like a Zeiss 10x42 HT (provided you get a good one ... :king, and it sure is slower. But it's still very, very good indeed. I wouldn't use it for birding in the woods or ar migrations hotspots with lots of bushes though. The slow focuser just doesn't work in that kind of environment.

Hermann

If I had to decide between those two binoculars for birding it would definitely be the EII. They both are very good optically with the EII having a wider FOV and the Habicht being a little brighter with better light transmission and more neutral colors with the EII having a warmer reddish tone as I have found in a lot of Nikon's. The big advantage of the EII over the Habicht is it's easier focuser and better glare control. I found the Habicht's stiffer, slower focuser hard to follow moving birds. Also, I found the Habicht to have glare control problems. It seems that glare can be a very personal thing though and it varies from person to person and depends on even how you position your eyes over the eye cups so you may find something different. For example, some people see glare in the 8x32 SV and some don't so it can be personal.

Thanks Dennis you just helped me decide. As to glare I hardly get any in the EII. I tried to make it happen today in the sun and had a hard time getting any.

black crow said:

Thanks Dennis you just helped me decide. As to glare I hardly get any in the EII. I tried to make it happen today in the sun and had a hard time getting any.

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The two Nikon porro's the SE and EII are very good at controlling glare.

I’d add the Swift Audubon and the Fujinon fmt into the porro mix. Great value porros which are the equal of pretty much anything.

I’ve said this before - I think Henry got the only dud Habicht Swarovski ever made. This binocular has built its consistent cult like reputation on its monstrous powers of resolution. Also, I find the micro contrast to be surreal at times. I have a Habicht collection and even the older ones with the yellow cast can ultimately out-resolve my newer Nikon E2s. I actually prefer the 10x35 E2 to the 8x30. The older yellow cast Habichts are super handy in overly bright conditions...one of my favourite bins. The 8x30 Habicht does suffer glare issues at times, but the rewards far outweigh the glare issues. My daughter has outstanding unaided vision and she can sort a Habicht from a Nikon E2 in roughly five seconds due to resolution. In fact, this last weekend we tested an excellent newish nikon M7 8x30 against an old yellow cast Habicht and we both picked the difference in resolution in about five seconds.

As with everything optical, test them for yourself and if you can’t see the difference then go the cheaper option and rejoice.

Optically, The finest Habicht I have is a late model military armoured IF 8x30. Somehow, It has a wider fov than the standard Habicht...I’d estimate it at 65deg vs 60.

Very interesting. I guess there is nothing for it but to buy one at some point and find out for myself. However enough people and articles have agreed with you that I believe you on this. Too bad they don't make the green rubberized ones anymore. I think they are a little work of art.

I'm curious as to why you prefer the 10x35 EII to the 8x30. Huge difference in fov and I think also in close focus.

As for now I'm happy with the EII but something brighter with more resolution is very intriguing. I've looked at the Monarch 8x30 alongside the EII and to me the EII easily outshines it but the Monarch is very good IMO.

Also how do you bird with the Habicht when they have such a stiff focuser? I find the EII almost too stiff for comfortable birding.