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Does EMR harm living organisms?

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Old Friday 30th November 2018, 05:34   #1401
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Given that I didn't once mention IQ, your sarcasm is lost on me, I'm afraid.
IQ, “intelligent”, “smart” and, here’s the kicker, “smarter”, all birds of a feather and all (except IQ) used by you in previous posts. And I wasn’t being sarcastic. Self-denigrating comparisons of this sort are never pretty and can cause embarrassment all round.
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Old Friday 30th November 2018, 12:15   #1402
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IQ, “intelligent”, “smart” and, here’s the kicker, “smarter”, all birds of a feather and all (except IQ) used by you in previous posts. And I wasn’t being sarcastic. Self-denigrating comparisons of this sort are never pretty and can cause embarrassment all round.
Ah, I see. I'm used to you splitting hairs on definitions and details better than that.

I don't consider being aware of my relative expertise on a particular topic, especially in the math and sciences, self-denigrating.
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Old Friday 30th November 2018, 17:43   #1403
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Ah, I see. I'm used to you splitting hairs on definitions and details better than that.

I don't consider being aware of my relative expertise on a particular topic, especially in the math and sciences, self-denigrating.
What about referring to various contributiors as “smarter” than yourself (which you’ve done repeatedly in this thread, that not self-denigrating? And after your post #1400, you accuse me of splitting hairs? Wow!

This is my last contribution to this discussion and I’ll leave you with this bit of advice: Admit your sin (if only to yourself) and vow to sin no more. . ..
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Old Friday 30th November 2018, 18:07   #1404
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What about referring to various contributiors as “smarter” than yourself (which you’ve done repeatedly in this thread, that not self-denigrating?
Admitting other people are smarter than me on certain topics is self-denigrating? I actually went and re-looked-up the term and...no, I don't consider it self-denigrating.

Claiming to be smarter than I am compared to someone else or some fixed standard is called: lying. Or hubris, which is something I've accused PH of.

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And after your post #1400, you accuse me of splitting hairs? Wow!
That was actually a compliment, I guess it didn't come-off as such, sorry. What I meant was, you are more often than not quite precise in your use of vocabulary (even I go scrambling for a dictionary at times, which is saying something according to people who know me....there, have some hubris on my part...)...so saying I said "IQ" when I didn't simply confused me. And if that still came-off wrong, well then darnit, pretend it's a compliment, since that's the intent!
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Old Saturday 1st December 2018, 13:07   #1405
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@ Jos, Kevin Did you guys not watch the Insect Inspector video, where he shows the locations of all the cell towers around the German nature reserves? Obviously he came to the same conclusion that I did, that EMR could have caused/did cause the decline in insect populations. As to why the study authors did not consider this, I don't know. But they should have. You will note that CCD and sparrow declines also started with 2G, circa 1994-96. It is reasonable to assume that other declines also started at the same time, but it has taken a while for people to notice. I do know that if you compare birder guides for Greece between the 1996 editions and the 2014 editions, the number of birds has clearly dwindled, and some species don't get a mention in the later editions because they are no longer there--crossbills at Dadia, Isabelline wheatears in the Evros. And 2014 was before 4G.

@all If you think the EMR from all those 5G satellites will be the only problem, think again. And if, in light of the following, you wish to reconsider signing the 5G Space Appeal, today is the last day. Once again, that's at https://www.5gspaceappeal.org

https://www.peer.org/news/press-rele...blindspot.html

For Immediate Release: Nov 19, 2018
Contact: Kirsten Stade (202) 265-7337

MERCURY MAY REACH ORBIT THROUGH REGULATORY BLINDSPOT

Mercury Satellite Thruster Propellant Threatens Eco-Catastrophe Back on Earth
Posted on Nov 19, 2018
Washington, DC — Federal regulators have turned a blind eye to the massive risks of using mercury as the propellant in thousands of communication satellites slated for launch in the next few years, according to a complaint filed today by Public Employees for Environmental Responsibility (PEER) with the Federal Communications Commission (FCC). The complaint charges that unregulated orbital mercury emissions could reverse global progress in reducing mercury in the environment.
The complaint concerns a plan by an American company, Apollo Fusion, to use elemental mercury as a propellant in thrusters for satellites to be launched by communications companies taking advantage of the coming boom in satellite “mega-constellations” designed to provide global Internet broadband service starting in 2019. Under these plans, the approximately 1,500 satellites currently orbiting the planet will soon be increased nearly ten-fold.
Due to its high density, mercury is an excellent propellant. Apollo Fusion has developed thrusters using liquid mercury as the onboard propulsion to maintain altitude and adjust orbits. The liquid mercury is vaporized into a gas, ionized, and accelerated out of the thruster. Those mercury atoms will then drift down through the stratosphere to the earth’s surface, mostly onto the world’s oceans.
“Using mercury as a satellite propellant is a cosmically bad idea,” stated PEER Staff Counsel Kevin Bell, noting that while relatively cheap, commercial use of mercury is increasingly avoided due to its major adverse environmental effects. “Unfortunately, the FCC is focused solely on the satellite payload and bandwidth while ignoring the emissions and downstream consequences of what is launched.”
The complaint takes FCC to task for its decision to let satellite operators self-certify their technology will have no significant impact on human health or the environment, a practice contrary to federal law and treaty obligations. Currently, the FCC only examines satellite payload and its electromagnetic frequency. By contrast, U.S. law requires any federal agency to assess the full environmental impact of its actions.
Mercury is a potent bio-accumulative neurotoxin. A global treaty, The Minamata Convention, obligates its 128 signatories to take steps to reduce mercury releases. The U.S. was the first signatory. However, large-scale orbital discharge of mercury could reverse planetary progress in reducing mercury emissions. In addition, a launch pad explosion of a satellite carrying liquid mercury would, among other problems, severely contaminate the local area under a cloud of mercury mist.
“Federal regulators need to take steps now to prevent this nightmare scenario,” Bell added, pointing out that mercury emissions in low orbit are effectively equivalent to mercury emissions from a powerplant. “The U.S. has both treaty and moral obligations to prevent this eco-catastrophe from occurring.”
###
Read the PEER complaint to the FCC
See FCC rule categorically excluding environmental review
Visit Apollo Fusion thruster site
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Old Saturday 1st December 2018, 17:43   #1406
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@ Purple Heron:

https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.p...postcount=1396

Not like I'm asking for a street address, just the general area/zone/nearby big city/etc.
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Old Saturday 1st December 2018, 22:35   #1407
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Hi Diana,

Thanks for the heads up about the mercury issue, which unless proven otherwise looks fairly serious to me. It may turn out to be more of a concrete concern for the public to grasp than the more subtle dangers of athermal EMR.

Hope you're enjoying your new digs.

Ed
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Old Sunday 2nd December 2018, 16:37   #1408
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Once again 2+2 = 10 billion!

Apollo Fusion is a start up employing 20 people; it hasn't flown even one of its thrusters into space; it hasn't got a contract from anyone to use its thrusters; it hasn't even built a full size version of its thruster design; it hasn't disclosed the fuel it will use in its wonder thruster; the use of mercury is from an "anonymous industry source".

But hey we going to have a global eco-catastrophe.
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Old Sunday 2nd December 2018, 20:01   #1409
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Once again 2+2 = 10 billion!

Apollo Fusion is a start up employing 20 people; it hasn't flown even one of its thrusters into space; it hasn't got a contract from anyone to use its thrusters; it hasn't even built a full size version of its thruster design; it hasn't disclosed the fuel it will use in its wonder thruster; the use of mercury is from an "anonymous industry source".

But hey we going to have a global eco-catastrophe.
You omitted reference to mercuric compounds likely produced by such an propulsion system that don't pose anywhere near the same environmental threat as elemental mercury that was encountered so tragically at Minamata...
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Old Sunday 2nd December 2018, 22:52   #1410
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Apparently, this Bloomberg Report was the original source of Diana's reference. According to it, "Apollo says it has a contract with one customer and is in discussions with at least two others, but it declined to name them or discuss its designs or environmental concerns."

I found the full article worth reading, and wouldn't put it past Apollo Fusion to implement the technology were there no public pushback or Govt. intervention. After all, they obviously didn't self-regulate to this point, and who would know about it had not Bloomberg and others exposed it?

'Corporate ethics' is a fairy tale.

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Old Sunday 2nd December 2018, 23:22   #1411
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. . 'Corporate ethics' is a fairy tale.
Indeed they are—the first thing in awhile that you and I can agree on. . ..
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Old Monday 3rd December 2018, 19:27   #1412
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Apparently, this Bloomberg Report was the original source of Diana's reference. According to it, "Apollo says it has a contract with one customer and is in discussions with at least two others, but it declined to name them or discuss its designs or environmental concerns."
I would quarantine Bloomberg after their sensational story about the Chinese modifying Supermicro servers and penetrating Apple and Amazon.

While fascinating and even feasible in some ways, the story is not believable due to some of the details they expose.

Moreover, the strong denials by Apple, Amazon and even the DHS are a good hint. I don’t think Apple nor Amazon would falsely deny such a risking being indicted of stock market fraud. Both are public traded companies.

Anyway the details in the Bloomberg history are absurd enough.

An anonymous source also commented in a forum that Bloomberg lately tends to reward stories that shake the market. Only because they shake the market. Not a good policy.
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Old Monday 3rd December 2018, 19:37   #1413
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I would quarantine Bloomberg after their sensational story about the Chinese modifying Supermicro servers and penetrating Apple and Amazon.

While fascinating and even feasible in some ways, the story is not believable due to some of the details they expose.
I was curious about that, but don't know chip/motherboard design well enough to comment. Did that story pan-out to be false?

It seemed odd to me that an "extra chip" would make it through any sort of rigorous QA, especially a visual inspection. Also I would have thought such an insertion would have caused operational errors, glitches, timing issues, etc. And last time I stared at mobos, they are insanely crowded; not exactly alot of room for a random new chip and associated traces.

Not saying it's not possible, just pretty government/state-level stuff of extreme complexity. Probably alot of easier ways to go about getting the same info.
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Old Tuesday 4th December 2018, 08:39   #1414
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Ah well, in that case I think I’ll wait until 2020 to upgrade my iPhone. . .

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018...9-report-says/
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Old Tuesday 4th December 2018, 13:00   #1415
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@ Kevin Just moving house is all--but it's complicated. Staying on the island because it will NOT be getting 5G.
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Old Wednesday 5th December 2018, 15:33   #1416
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@ Kevin Just moving house is all--but it's complicated. Staying on the island because it will NOT be getting 5G.
Surely you don't believe "them" when they say the island won't be getting 5G.
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Old Wednesday 5th December 2018, 15:57   #1417
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Surely you don't believe "them"
Wasn't sure whether to laugh or groan at this one. "Them" and "the Other"; always productive ways to explore any topic.

Though I can't deny it's incredibly fashionable these days in what passes for discussion and debate.
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Old Wednesday 5th December 2018, 17:59   #1418
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Wasn't sure whether to laugh or groan at this one. "Them" and "the Other"; always productive ways to explore any topic.

Though I can't deny it's incredibly fashionable these days in what passes for discussion and debate.
That's the trouble with plain text in the hands of many of us lacking in literary skills.

I wasn't trying to "other" anyone. It was an attempt (poor?) to refer to her habit of seeing conspiracies everywhere that doesn't correspond to a particular view of the world.
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Old Wednesday 5th December 2018, 19:16   #1419
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. . I wasn't trying to "other" anyone. It was an attempt (poor?) to refer to her habit of seeing conspiracies everywhere that doesn't correspond to a particular view of the world.
Nothing to apologize for. Your original post is perfectly clear in its intent and I’m at a loss to know how anyone could fail to grasp it. And I agree with you, PH has a conspiracy theory for every occasion.
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Old Wednesday 5th December 2018, 19:33   #1420
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That's the trouble with plain text in the hands of many of us lacking in literary skills.

I wasn't trying to "other" anyone. It was an attempt (poor?) to refer to her habit of seeing conspiracies everywhere that doesn't correspond to a particular view of the world.
My apologies, that's exactly how I took it, actually. :-)

That's why I found it both funny and groan-worthy...the sarcasm/irony.
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Old Thursday 6th December 2018, 13:32   #1421
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@ all

Some interesting developments re wireless technologies and 5G.

1. Senator Blumenthal (Democrat, Connecticut) has demanded that the FCC prove that 5G is safe before deploying it. Alarmed by the NTP study, which showed a clear link between EMR and cancer in rats, he points out that 5G has not been studied, and there is a serious risk that 5G could have serious impacts on people's health and on nature. There is an excellent press conference with him here:
http://www.ctn.state.ct.us/ctnplayer.asp?odID=15794
Also on the interview, excellent comments by Blake Levitt, especially regarding nature.

2. The film 2.0, with its central contention that EMR kills birds is getting press--in India at least:

Does cellphone use kill birds? Experts weigh in on idea promoted by Shankar's '2.0' - The News Minute, 4th December 2018

https://www.thenewsminute.com/articl...nkars-20-92735

Here's an excerpt:

Ornithologist Mohammad Dilawar who has studied house sparrows extensively and was a member of the expert committee, points out that EMF radiation could be a factor affecting sparrows. But he also adds that there could be other reasons.

“Studies abroad have conclusively proved that when the number of cellphones in an area increase, the number of sparrows decrease and vice-versa. However, in India, the topic has not been studied well. In the 2011 MoEF study, we had said that EMR could be one of the reasons why sparrows were vanishing but not the only reason. Other reasons include lack of nests and food,” he told Down To Earth, following the release of the film. "But if this is what the plot of the movie is about, then it is a good thing that popular cinema has started talking about electromagnetic radiation or EMR. EMR is an invisible kind of pollution. So far, we have seen other kinds of pollution being depicted in documentaries and popular cinema, but not EMR,” he said.

3. The danger of cellphones and wireless technology is even making the comedy circuit these days, but the message is serious. The pertinent bits are the first five minutes and towards the end, with the discussion of wearable and RF-linked medical devices. Amusing and highly accurate--most of the material Lee Camp quotes from has been presented on this thread.

https://www.rt.com/usa/445447-redact...phones-cancer/
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Old Friday 7th December 2018, 15:29   #1422
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PH,

I'm confused:

--Shankar's movie 2.0 is a sci-fi film from India, at least when I Googled it. You seem to be citing it as a documentary, so maybe you're referring to something else more obscure I missed?

--RT (Redacted Tonight) is a comedy show, right? Or did I miss something again?
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Old Friday 7th December 2018, 18:18   #1423
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--Shankar's movie 2.0 is a sci-fi film from India, at least when I Googled it. You seem to be citing it as a documentary, so maybe you're referring to something else more obscure I missed?
Just alternative facts.

Quote:

--RT (Redacted Tonight) is a comedy show, right? Or did I miss something again?

In these dark days, RT is the wise, balanced news source that the BBC was in its glory days.
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Old Friday 7th December 2018, 18:33   #1424
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In these dark days, RT is the wise, balanced news source that the BBC was in its glory days.
Which is saying something as an opinion, since I find the BBC news a far sight less biased about it's US coverage than most US outlets; and they cover things the mainstream US media skips or gives "below the fold" treatment.
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Old Saturday 8th December 2018, 02:26   #1425
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Thanks, Diana, you're right on topic. All good info.

Nice to see that liberal Dems can also be skeptical. Who woulda thought?

Good for Blumenthal.

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