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Uk400club 'list Of Lists' Etc Etc

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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 07:49   #51
peter.jones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZanderII View Post
" When considering 'biographical significance', what is important is whether the data go beyond recording the individual's casual connection with a matter or event which has no personal connotations for him. Does the processing of this data affect, or is it likely to affect, the individual? Data may, for example, have personal connotations for an individual if it provides information about an individual's whereabouts or actions at a particular time. "

So, if rarity X was present for just one day, or even a short range of dates, and someone is recording that I saw it, then that data is pinning me to a particular place at a particular time. This is Personal data, and Lee Evans seems to be collecting tonnes of the stuff without consent. Unless of course you sign up to this consent when you join the UK400 club.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 08:09   #52
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Originally Posted by peter.jones View Post
" When considering 'biographical significance', what is important is whether the data go beyond recording the individual's casual connection with a matter or event which has no personal connotations for him. Does the processing of this data affect, or is it likely to affect, the individual? Data may, for example, have personal connotations for an individual if it provides information about an individual's whereabouts or actions at a particular time. "

So, if rarity X was present for just one day, or even a short range of dates, and someone is recording that I saw it, then that data is pinning me to a particular place at a particular time. This is Personal data, and Lee Evans seems to be collecting tonnes of the stuff without consent. Unless of course you sign up to this consent when you join the UK400 club.
Peter

Nice work - assume the quote is from the Act or related Guidance? But in what way does this record "affect, or is it likely to affect, the individual" and what, if any, are the "personal connotations"? I suspect LGRE's records would fail these tests within the Act, even if at face value someone's list could be construed as falling under the ambit of the Act.

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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 09:32   #53
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 09:36   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Evans View Post
The discrepancies/birds Steve has NOT seen are: Yelkouan Shearwater
Hi Lee,

Which Yelkouans are UK400 acceptable? Or, more specifically, is a record from Porthgwarra on 6th August 2010 flying west at 16:28 acceptable?

Tom
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 10:11   #55
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"Personal data"

If someone turns up in public to see a rare bird, how can taking note of that be personal data? If they turn up many times to rare birds, how can noting that be personal data? The accrued list might only be "personal data" by way of the commoner species that the individual has not been sighted at! It is possible to work out the (inferred) lists of top twitchers without them contributing to that process.

Ooh, how creepy. Is there someone following me when I go out birding? The mind boggles.

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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 10:17   #56
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Originally Posted by lewis20126 View Post
Peter

Nice work - assume the quote is from the Act or related Guidance? But in what way does this record "affect, or is it likely to affect, the individual" and what, if any, are the "personal connotations"? I suspect LGRE's records would fail these tests within the Act, even if at face value someone's list could be construed as falling under the ambit of the Act.

cheers, alan
By putting you at a site at a specific time on a public forum means anyone who has "pulled a sickie" to go on a twitch is risk of being found out. My problem also is where does he get the information from? Are friends secretly tipping Lee off on what I've seen and even if they didn't think I got tickable views. Not up to date with what is allowed by Uk400 club I also don't know how accurate my total is.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:17   #57
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By putting you at a site at a specific time on a public forum means anyone who has "pulled a sickie" to go on a twitch is risk of being found out. My problem also is where does he get the information from? Are friends secretly tipping Lee off on what I've seen and even if they didn't think I got tickable views. Not up to date with what is allowed by Uk400 club I also don't know how accurate my total is.
no good wearing camoflage jackets anymore then
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:27   #58
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Many people don't want to pay tax, queue in shops, be a government statistic, get fat, lose their hair, die, have a small penis, look at ugly women etc. But we don't always have the choice and we need to get use to the way things are.

People don't want to be on the UK400 rankings because
a. Didn't see Blue-winged Warbler in Ireland and will now never go there now.
b. Can't afford to twitch Scottish Islands etc
c. Can't go for birds duing the week, as work is inflexible.
d. Can't be bothered to drive outside the County.
e. People can't count the Saturday morning Welsh Catbird.
f. Mr Dick Head has seen more birds than me and I don't want anyone else finding out.
g. Can't do overnight twitching as I might miss an episode of Babestation!

Lee and his supporters want to be shown on a League Table, and by ommitting certain people would make the list invalid.

94% of Top listers do Ireland and so that seems like a good region/reason to include within the list.

If Irish ticks were removed it would be a meaningless list. I doubt if many of the 94 in the Top 100 would invest money in seeing an Irish Mega again by visiting Fair Isle. But the 6 Non-Irish listers might.

If Lee got bored of recording peoples life lists, and decided to give it up. Someone else would resurrect it within a year for sure.

Lee bashing is becoming BORING. People should start helping each other out and start enjoying their life with birds.
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Last edited by Garry Bagnell : Saturday 25th June 2011 at 11:35.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:32   #59
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h) Don't care if no-one else knows how many birds they have seen
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:34   #60
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Just remove the names of unwilling participants but keep their lists, surly there won't be that many blank names and everyone can move onto another petty and pointless (but entertaining!) argument.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:42   #61
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Originally Posted by Garry Richard Bagnell View Post
Many people don't want to pay tax, queue in shops, be a government statistic, get fat, lose their hair, die, have a small penis, look at ugly women etc. But we don't always have the choice and we need to get use to the way things are.

People don't want to be on the UK400 rankings because
a. Didn't see Blue-winged Warbler in Ireland and will now never go there now.
b. Can't afford to twitch Scottish Islands etc
c. Can't go for birds duing the week, as work is inflexible.
d. Can't be bothered to drive outside the County.
e. People can't count the Saturday morning Welsh Catbird.
f. Mr Dick Head has seen more birds than me and I don't want anyone else finding out.
g. Can't do overnight twitching as I might miss an episode of Babestation!

Lee and his supporters want to be shown on a League Table, and by ommitting certain people would make the list invalid.

94% of Top listers do Ireland and so that seems like a good region/reason to include within the list.

If Irish ticks were removed it would be a meaningless list. I doubt if many of the 94 in the Top 100 would invest money in seeing an Irish Mega again by visiting Fair Isle. But the 6 Non-Irish listers might.

If Lee got bored of Listing, I'm sure someone else would resume control within a year.

Lee bashing is becoming boring.People should start helping each other out and start enjoying their life with birds.
Garry,

How many of the above flaws do you possess?

What about those of us IN Ireland, whom Lee just makes up fictional lists for? Your made up reasons for people not wanting to be involved with Lee's Listing would not really apply there would they?

I sincerely doubt if any Irish birder has ever submitted a list to Lee, yet there are Irish rankings for not only Irish Birders "IRBC Based Lists" but also our "UK400Club Lists"........Oh and by the way Lee...I too would also like my name removed from your databases.

I was passed on a copy of Lee's List Ranking for Ireland a few months ago.
Lots of us over here in Ireland had a good laugh at it. But in all seriousness there is something just plain creepy about Lee Evans and I doubt many people over here would support his UK400Club version of their Irish Lists.

In fact I do not even think he twigged onto the fact people were taking the piss out of him a while back saying it should be called the UK and Ireland 400 club...

Owen
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:47   #62
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Regarding the DPA and it legality re the UK400 list.

There is a self check list on he ICO.gov website and you will find that Hobbies are included as part of one of the questions and then a set of criteria regarding the use of the data.

I completed the check list with my DPA Officer in our lunchtimes (I work for a regulatory body, so have to adhere and be aware of this stuff) and the list is exempt under their criteria!

Another fact is that research (as this could be considered the collection of data for research purposes) can also be considered an exempt area.

Also an individual's name in most cases cannot be considered unique and does not fall under DPA as a name alone, after all there is more than one Lee Evans!

So stating you have a legal right under the DPA to have your name removed is erroneous. You have the right to have any incorrect data corrected that you think may not show you in a correct light but you have to supply the data.

On to more important things in life.........

Neil
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 11:55   #63
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I hardly know Lee and have nothing much against him but the email included in Mark's post shocks me. I can quite understand Mark resigning as county recorder in the circumstances, despite not knowing the full background alluded to.

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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 12:00   #64
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Garry -that is a ridiculous argument. Yes people don't want to pay taxes etc, but there are clear systems in place in a democratic society that mean people that are unhappy with the system can attempt to change it - or leave. In this case there is a single person, apparently unanswerable to anyone and unwilling to act in a reasonable or sensible manner. Regardless of the DPA and in depth legalities, other than pure selfishness, what good reason is there to store information on other people against their own wishes, in a non-proffesional hobby? Sure if people want to compete by UK400 club rules then post their lists, if not why is lee apparently attempting to force them to compete in a game in which he makes up his own rules?

And yes, Lee bashing is unpleasant and at times boring, but when he sends absolutely despicable e-mails, like the one Mark has linked to above, which contain thinly-veiled threats and insults, then it is understandable. There seems to be a lot of people here willing to point out Lee's enthusiasm for birds and the benefits that brings, but ignore the incredibly destructive way Lee can go about his business. It seems to me very simple, he has no right to hassle or threaten a county recorder (and by all accounts a good one), especially not one from a county he does not live in, until he resigns his post. Nor is there any reason to continue attempting to force people to play by his rules, at the expense of creating rifts and dicisions amongst the birding community?

lee, surely if you care for the birding scene as much as you often claim to, would it not be better just to remove the names from the list of the people that do not want to participate, and then everyone can operate by whichever rules they wish to, and there would not be the need for these ridiculous arguments. just by going to see a bird people are not necessarily competitive, nor are they accepting the rules of UK400 club.

ps: Garry, 94%??? really? where on earth did that figure come from? do you actually have any evidence to support it, or are you merely making up figures at random?
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Last edited by metcow333 : Saturday 25th June 2011 at 12:17.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 12:09   #65
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94% is a fact. Lee and I counted the names up last year when we were responding to someone knocking Irish birding.
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Last edited by Garry Bagnell : Saturday 25th June 2011 at 12:13.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 12:11   #66
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presumably abt as much as a fact as the lists on uk400 club then?
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 12:14   #67
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I'm glad that when I first started birding 35 years ago, I just thought it was a bit of eccentric fun, and had no idea just how spooky sick and weird the scene appears to have become, or I might have been put off taking up this wonderful passtime.

Imagine you're not a birder, take a step back and read this thread. Unbelievable.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 12:16   #68
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Originally Posted by NSH View Post
Regarding the DPA and it legality re the UK400 list.

There is a self check list on he ICO.gov website and you will find that Hobbies are included as part of one of the questions and then a set of criteria regarding the use of the data.

I completed the check list with my DPA Officer in our lunchtimes (I work for a regulatory body, so have to adhere and be aware of this stuff) and the list is exempt under their criteria!

Another fact is that research (as this could be considered the collection of data for research purposes) can also be considered an exempt area.

Also an individual's name in most cases cannot be considered unique and does not fall under DPA as a name alone, after all there is more than one Lee Evans!

So stating you have a legal right under the DPA to have your name removed is erroneous. You have the right to have any incorrect data corrected that you think may not show you in a correct light but you have to supply the data.

On to more important things in life.........

Neil
Neil,

My understanding of the DPA act is very different. Have a look at the attachment. To my knowledge there are over 50 birders who want their list total and name removed and there may be more! Many of who have asked in a polite way.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	dpa.jpg
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 12:52   #69
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Garry,

How many of the above flaws do you possess?

Owen
Quite a few Owen...and quite a few that are not mentioned.

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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 13:09   #70
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94% is a fact. Lee and I counted the names up last year when we were responding to someone knocking Irish birding.
Garry, you're so far up his fundament that your opinions are worthless.

Watching this from outside is hysterical. You ALL want to take a good look in the mirror...

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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 13:38   #71
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I am 18 and I have been birding for 5 years and am appalled by this thread. I do not twitch much and only have a life list of 252. The whole thread seems to miss the complete point of birdwatching, which is for enjoyment (and perhaps to contribute to conservation). I count the birds I want to count and do not need someone else telling me what to count. If someone wants to compete in a competition than they can and if people do not they do not need to.

If someone mistakenly identifies a bird and reports it than that is part of the risk twitchers take. The witchhunts that occur on this forum are completely unneccessary and unacceptable, with the only exception being in the case of a deliberate hoax. It is for the BBRC or the county records panel to judge whether a record officially stands but in my opinion, unless someone is participating in a competition, it is for the observer to establish whether they have seen it.

No one can find these arguments or, in the case of the e-mail personal attacks, enjoyable and it really is a terrible advert for birdwatching. Remember birdwatching is about having fun and helping nature not about bickering.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 13:46   #72
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For the record I do keep notes and field sketches but frankly my sketches are crap - as our county rarities secretary will attet to.
No comment :o)
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 13:57   #73
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I like this thread. It makes me feel reasonably sane.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 14:02   #74
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I like this thread. It makes me feel reasonably sane.
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Old Saturday 25th June 2011, 14:37   #75
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Originally Posted by simmojunior View Post
I am 18 and I have been birding for 5 years and am appalled by this thread. I do not twitch much and only have a life list of 252. The whole thread seems to miss the complete point of birdwatching, which is for enjoyment (and perhaps to contribute to conservation). I count the birds I want to count and do not need someone else telling me what to count. If someone wants to compete in a competition than they can and if people do not they do not need to.

If someone mistakenly identifies a bird and reports it than that is part of the risk twitchers take. The witchhunts that occur on this forum are completely unneccessary and unacceptable, with the only exception being in the case of a deliberate hoax. It is for the BBRC or the county records panel to judge whether a record officially stands but in my opinion, unless someone is participating in a competition, it is for the observer to establish whether they have seen it.

No one can find these arguments or, in the case of the e-mail personal attacks, enjoyable and it really is a terrible advert for birdwatching. Remember birdwatching is about having fun and helping nature not about bickering.
Nice to hear the opinions of someone in the same position and same motivation as myself. I get the competition aspect but a lot of people need to chill out and remember why they started birdwatching, I doubt that many started to have the biggest list in years to come.
The attitudea here are achieving nothing but showing the frailties that occur within hobbies such as this.
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