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Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD vs. Zeiss 7x42 BGATP

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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 05:50   #1
Elmer Fudd
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Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD vs. Zeiss 7x42 BGATP

Is anyone here who has/had the opportunity to compare the new Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD agains the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP?

I have the latter one for almost 20 years and would like an upgrading. Not optically but mechanically especially concerning the advantage of the new Leica being waterproof. Not that I have any complaints about the optical performance of the old Zeiss. But it's also time to get something new. And therefore I would part with the Zeiss to buy another 7x42.

Another option would be the Nikon EDG. Are there any experienced users in this forum who would like to share their experiences?
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 06:58   #2
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Elmer Fudd,
Yes I have compared them in an elaborate test and, if everything is still working, you can find the test on the WEB-site of House of Outdoor.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 07:01   #3
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I'm a big fan of the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP and I would advise against parting with a binocular that is so good and so familiar to you. Instead, I would suggest getting something to complement it. For me, that bin is the Swarovski 8.5x42 EL Swarovision. The EL design is a natural fit for those who enjoy the wrap-around grip afforded by the Zeiss, and the oculars have lots of eye relief and are very forgiving of eye placement, as with the Zeiss. True FOV is traded for a bit more magnification and better edge-to-edge performance. Advantages over the Zeiss are the weather sealing, rain-shedding lens coatings, and very short close focus. If Swarovski would use a variable-ratio focus, the Swaro might be almost as effortless as the Zeiss to focus, but alas they have not. Nevertheless, the focus is plenty fast at birding distances.

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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 07:46   #4
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I actually got to put a well used BGAT against my UVHD+ 7x42 back in January whilst on holiday in Norfolk, I am a big fan of the Zeiss, although I`v never owned one, the newer coatings on the Leica and the HT glass delivered a much more dynamic view, sharper, better contrast with that "washed clean" look that I see with the UVHD+ and Zeiss HT, even though the BGAT has AK prisms, the Leica was a lot brighter.

I expected the greater fov to make more difference but as I`v remarked on here before, my UV seems every bit as wide as my 8x30EII, so I think Leica are conservative about the 140m in the UV.

I`d love to own a BGAT, but if you are set on replacing it and want to stick with a 7x42 I feel the UVHD+ may be the best 7x42 that`l ever be made.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 08:46   #5
dwever
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. . . but if you are set on replacing it and want to stick with a 7x42 I feel the UVHD+ may be the best 7x42 that's ever been made.
I own both the 7x42 Ultravid HD Plus and the Zeiss 7x50 Marines which are a BGAT correct? Anyway, the Zeiss are amazing, have the advantage of making one feel like a tanker captain haha, but I agree with Torview above.

The EDG is also an amazing piece, but in the company of the HD Plus perhaps needs a bit more transmission.

I'm not sure about the advice above regarding the Swaro 8.5x42's. That is a whole different experience, not necessarily better, but if that is one's cup of tea great.

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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 11:23   #6
Elmer Fudd
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Thank you all for your helpful advices.

dwever, for what purpose do you take that IF 7x50 Zeiss?

Is it useful to use it for birding resp. birdwatching?

My 7x42 has the T-Coating as well as yours might have.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 12:40   #7
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Originally Posted by Elmer Fudd View Post
dwever, for what purpose do you take that IF 7x50 Zeiss?

Is it useful to use it for birding resp. birdwatching?

My 7x42 has the T-Coating as well as yours might have.
I originally bought the 7x50 Marines for law enforcement work (State Troopers). They were such a massive step up from the Steiner's they replaced; they're truly alpha glass.

The Marines have been on safari in Africa multiple times, and as long as you don't need to focus down, are fine for bird watching. BUT, they are really really big to the point it would be a deal breaker for most birders not to mention the individual focus. They are indistructable. However, as much as I love the Marines, once I bought my first pair of UV HD Plus Leica's, the Zeiss Marines have not moved much.

The truth of it is, I don't even know if the Leica's image is that much better, but the image is certainly more pleasing. And, the only image I've viewed that I like as well as the Leica's is the Zeiss HT 8x42 if not just a teeny tiny bit more. But factor in the Leica's compactness and all the benefits mentioned in the review I referenced above which I agree are true about either the 8x42 or 7x42 Leica's, and you really have a premiere pair of bins.

Hope that gets at your questions. Good luck.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 13:42   #8
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Elmer Fudd,
If you are looking for another /a new 7x42 to replace your (iconic) 7x42 Zeiss Classic Dialyt 7x42 B/GA T the choices are gettting smaller and smaller since consumers ignore 7x42's more and more.
The Leica Ultravid HD-plus 7x42 is one of the possibilities as discussed here. Some data of this binocular and the data in brackets behind are the ones from the Zeiss Dialyt (ZD) 7x42:
7x42 Ultravid HD-plus: weight 743 g (798 ZD), close focus 3,3 m (ZD 3,8m), FOV 140 m/1000m (ZD 150m/1000m), light transmission 500nm 86,8% (ZD 86,8%), 550 nm 88,2% (ZD 90,5%).
Price 2040 euro (ZD only used ones are for sale, since production stopped in 2004).
Another option might be the Meopta Meostar B1 7x42 with its price of 848 euro!! Test data: weight 926 g, close focus 2,7m , FOV 137m/1000m, light transmission 500 nm: 86,8%, 550 nm: 90,9%. Handling comfort is good: it is certainly a very strong competitor for the Leica on the basis of its performance and specifications and all that at a much much lower price.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 14:30   #9
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Originally Posted by Elmer Fudd View Post
Is anyone here who has/had the opportunity to compare the new Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD agains the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP?

I have the latter one for almost 20 years and would like an upgrading. Not optically but mechanically especially concerning the advantage of the new Leica being waterproof. Not that I have any complaints about the optical performance of the old Zeiss. But it's also time to get something new. And therefore I would part with the Zeiss to buy another 7x42.

Another option would be the Nikon EDG. Are there any experienced users in this forum who would like to share their experiences?

About 2 years ago I was looking for a top end 7x42 and I had the chance to try out the following all together and the basic results were:-

Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD - I felt the colours where a little subdued and I wasn't happy with the focuser. Sharpness maybe not as good as it should have been for this grade of binocular.

Zeiss 7x42 BGAPT - While probably very good in its day, it didn't compete well with any the other more modern offerings.

Zeiss 7x42 FL - A very nice binocular but some colours could be brighter against other colours which then appeared subdued. I have since seen a transmission graph and it's not very flat across all the colours which might explain the this phenomena. Very sharp in the centre but started to tail off quite early. I owned the 8x32 which was very much the same.

Nikon 7x42 EDG - An incredible binocular. Colours near perfect for me and sharp over most of the view. Comfortable in the hands and with a focuser that is probably the best on any binocular. There is a review by Peter Kitchener on the forum that might help.

My choice by a significant margin was the EDG. To back that up, I am now the owner of a Nikon 7x42 EDG and that was probably the best decision I have ever made during my binocular buying history.

The caveat concerning the slightly lower level of light transmission through the EDG is mention earlier, but don't let this put you off. The transmission graph is very level through all the colour which is more important to me than a lift in one area in order to claim the holy grail of higher transmission. But then I don't go looking for black cats in coal holes.

If you are in the market for this level of binoculars can I reiterate what has been said many times before. Try before you buy and preferably with as many as possible at the same time. Your eyesight and your facial feature are unique to you and you will only be able to decide if a binocular suits you by handling it. Sorry to preach!

Good luck with your search.

Stan
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 14:47   #10
John Frink
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Originally Posted by Elmer Fudd View Post
Is anyone here who has/had the opportunity to compare the new Leica 7x42 Ultravid HD against the Zeiss 7x42 BGATP?
I have a late 7x42BGATP that was my birding companion for a long time. It's a very subjective, personal decision, of course, but the 7x42 Ultravid HD+ is the first new 7x42 that has made me put my old friend on the shelf. The TFL, the EDG, and the SLC are all fine binoculars, in my opinion, and you can't go wrong with any of them; but for me, the HD+ has a 'sparkle', or luminosity, to its image that the others don't seem to have.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 15:19   #11
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I recently purchased a 7x42 HD-Plus. I can't compare it to the Zeiss, but I do have an 8x42 Ultravid (non-HD), and the improvement is noticeable. Like John Frink says, the HD-Plus has a "sparkle" that the regular Ultravid doesn't. I find myself looking at things just because the image is so nice, and colorful birds look amazing through them. Whatever brand you choose, I would say stick with 7x. I love the steady image and depth of focus. I wish I had bought a pair a long time ago.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 16:12   #12
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Just curious, is the high transmission sparkle unique to 7x42 HD plus or present in 8x42 HD plus as well, maybe to a less extent?
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 16:16   #13
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Originally Posted by fguo79 View Post
Just curious, is the high transmission sparkle unique to 7x42 HD plus or present in 8x42 HD plus as well, maybe to a less extent?
Its there in all the Plus models IMO, but good as the 8 and 10 powers are the 7 is really special, just an absolute joy to Bird with.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 19:27   #14
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fguo79 and Torview,
Upon comparing the Ultravid HD and the Ultravid HD-plus 8x42 only a small increase in light transmission can be measured and that indicates that there is no such thing as a transmission sparkle, only a tiny amount in "whiteness" (if I may call it that way) becomes visible by eye.
With respect to differences between the Ultravid HD 8x32 and the Ultravid HD-plus 8x32 no transmission differences were found at all in the instruments we measured.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 19:37   #15
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Objectively there may be no measurable difference, subjectively the plus just "sparkles", don`t know how else to describe it.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 19:39   #16
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It's seem an illusion of brightness with the HD + models, as Gijs' figures show it to be actually lower than bins like the 7x42 BGAT.

Edit - Torview just commented. I would agree that the HT glass does do something quite extraordinary, from my Zeiss HT experience. As Torview has said - it's a washed clean, whiter-than-white, deeply contrasted and very startling crisp view, complimented by the very high transmission.

For the HT, the ''sparkle'' seems to come, partly, from very good edge contrast - such that birds etc. being viewed seem to ''pop'' from the background and densely detailed views of vegetation and the like become sharply differentiated.

Also from my experience in comparing the HT to the Conquest HD, FL, various BGAT models, the difference in depth of colour and contrast is easily seen and seems a result of the elimination of very slight veiling glare - the type of which you would never notice without direct comparison.
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Old Wednesday 25th May 2016, 21:53   #17
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Also from my experience.................... the difference in depth of colour and contrast is easily seen and seems a result of the elimination of very slight veiling glare - the type of which you would never notice without direct comparison.[/quote]

I had`nt thought of that, but I totally agree, the first time I looked through an HT it was so obviously more vibrant than an FL to me, I see very much the same in the UV+, its just a a greater difference than raw measurements suggest.
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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 01:34   #18
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Just curious, is the high transmission sparkle unique to 7x42 HD plus or present in 8x42 HD plus as well, maybe to a less extent?
First the sparkle is not a function of high transmission alone, and folks are in need of a little restraint from arguing the Leica HD Plus subjective 'sparkle' comes from or doesn't have it from that single measurement. Transmission alone simply does not account for it.

I have both the 7x42 and 8x42 HD Plus Ultravids. What Leica has engineered optically to make the HD Plus image so exceedingly pleasing, for some users including me, is at least a combination of transmission, contrast, and saturated brilliant colors. And this is in both the 7 and 8 powers. So yes the 'sparkle' is present with both, but it is hardly owed to transmission alone, and the arguing back and forth on this thread strictly based on transmission is one dimensional, lacks awareness, and never accounted for the images highly satisfying qualities on it's own.

As you can see below I own three optics brands, and with rifle scopes a fourth (Schmidt and Bender), so I'm hardly tilted towards any particular company. For my recent purchases I just found the Leica and Zeiss HT images the most pleasing binocular image available, but ultimately stayed with the Leica over the lovely HT due to compactness, industrial design and some other factors.

I hope you took the time to read the comparison article linked at post #5. That detailed review as much as any other I'm aware of accounts for the affections of the folks who are passionate about the HD Plus' image.
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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 10:39   #19
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Also from my experience.................... the difference in depth of colour and contrast is easily seen and seems a result of the elimination of very slight veiling glare - the type of which you would never notice without direct comparison.
I had`nt thought of that, but I totally agree, the first time I looked through an HT it was so obviously more vibrant than an FL to me[/quote]

I think you could well be right about that.

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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 11:43   #20
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I follow everything Stanbo said.
I have the Zeiss 7*42 T*FL but would be happy to use the Leica 7x42 HD+.
The older Zeiss 7x42 BGATP is not in the same league anymore, though still very nice to have and a top binocular overall.
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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 13:39   #21
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I always thought that birders looked for binoculars that gave TRUE colors across the visible spectrum.......not coating enhanced colors...that always came into play for hunting type binoculars....so the game animals would stand out from the surroundings by certain colors being overly enhanced..... guess I read the birding crowd wrong......
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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 14:15   #22
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I always thought that birders looked for binoculars that gave TRUE colors across the visible spectrum.......not coating enhanced colors...that always came into play for hunting type binoculars....so the game animals would stand out from the surroundings by certain colors being overly enhanced..... guess I read the birding crowd wrong......
G
You are not necessarily wrong and not necessarily right.
All the bins manufacturers have their own anti-reflection coatings and these all balance out the colour spectrum that they pass in a slightly different way. This can be for many reasons, some of which are related to the manufacturer's idea about the best colour balance between daytime vision and twilight vision as the human eye changes how it processes light from daylight to twilight. This gives rise to a different colour balance reaching the eyes of the bins user and different folks find these different colour balances attractive or maybe not so attractive.

Don't forget many birders use their bins for viewing stuff other than birds including the view from their home or their place of work etc. I am sure many hunters do the same and indeed look at birds too. Folks have different preferences for the colour balance of these views.

Plus different folks have different perceptions about what 'true to life colours' really are and we all get used to using our favourite bins probably get used to thinking those colours are natural.

Almost certainly no manufacturer makes bins that are entirely faithful to nature's colours under all lighting conditions.

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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 14:24   #23
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G
You are not necessarily wrong and not necessarily right.
All the bins manufacturers have their own anti-reflection coatings and these all balance out the colour spectrum that they pass in a slightly different way. This can be for many reasons, some of which are related to the manufacturer's idea about the best colour balance between daytime vision and twilight vision as the human eye changes how it processes light from daylight to twilight. This gives rise to a different colour balance reaching the eyes of the bins user and different folks find these different colour balances attractive or maybe not so attractive.

Don't forget many birders use their bins for viewing stuff other than birds including the view from their home or their place of work etc. I am sure many hunters do the same and indeed look at birds too. Folks have different preferences for the colour balance of these views.

Plus different folks have different perceptions about what 'true to life colours' really are and we all get used to using our favourite bins probably get used to thinking those colours are natural.

Almost certainly no manufacturer makes bins that are entirely faithful to nature's colours under all lighting conditions.

Lee
My HD-Plus seems to really bring out the yellow range of the spectrum, which for birding purposes, is pure gold, metaphorically speaking.
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Old Thursday 26th May 2016, 17:34   #24
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Hello all
I have had two Zeiss Dialyt 7x42 BGAT, an earlier (1993) and the latest version "classic" (2004).
In 2009 I decided to try to upgrade and had the opportunity to compare all the 7x models from the main European brands of that time (Zeiss Victory 7x42 BGAT; The Leica Ultravid 7x42 (not HD) and the newer 7x42 HD; the Meopta 7x42 and two Swarovski, perhaps together with an Optolyth if I remember correctly).
The side-by-side 7x42 test lasted two or three hour: I excluded the Optolyth, the Meopta (yellowish cast) and the Swaros straight away, then the older Ultravid not HD.
The real, final duel was between the Victory and the Ultravid HD: both 7x42 were impressive binoculars. At last I chose the Zeiss Victory because it accomodated better (am spectacle wearer) and because of its huge FOV (150m/1000m just like the older Dialyt BGAT 7x42). The differences were subtle and mainly subjective: the contrast in the Leica Ultravid HD was better and outstanding in my memory. Overall, the Victory seemed to me more neutral and "quiet" (I use it 98% in raptor watching during migrations). The Nikon EDG was not launched in the market yet and-or not in that optical shop of course.
The seller withdrawn immediately and with no problem my beloved Dialyt 7x42....

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Old Friday 27th May 2016, 10:37   #25
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dwever, post 18,
I agree and I disagree with respect to your statements in post 18.
First of all tranmission spectra tell us two things: the amount of transmission is informative about the brightness of the optical system and the spectrum as a whole tells us something about the color balance and total color impression of the binocular image. They do not give information about contrast transfer, but that is a consequence among others of decreasing optical errors like color dispersion, spherical aberration, coma, astigatism etc. And considering the small price increase of the Ultravid HD-plus compared with the Ultravid-HD my guess is that Leica did not change the optical system of their binoculars at all exept for including HT glass somewhere in the optical system, which may decrease color dispersion.
I will try to ad some spectra we measured from which we conclude, that Leica did improve the 8x42 but not that we could find the 8x32 and the 7x42 is just as good as other 7x42's we measured and some perform even better.
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