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Question for all artist? (1 Viewer)

matt green

Norfolkman gone walkabout
OK, so I have absolutely no artistic aspirations myself but I've just been ''trying'' to draw/sketch a Common Lizard from a photo I took at Cley a few weeks back ~ and it's just not happening!! ..this was followed by an attempt at a Kingfisher and Little Egret ..still laughable but nothing like as bad as the Lizard! insects I also find are next to impossible to put down on paper.

Are there any artists out there who find non-avian wildlife subjects next to impossible to draw/paint? Maybe I'm wrong but I'm thinking that these subjects are harder to draw because they have so many more irregularities compared to birds?..maybe it has something to do with the natural flowing lines of birds that make them easier to work with ..I dunno?

Your thoughts welcomed

Matt
 
I'd always found birds easier to draw because that's what I know. As for other things I've tried to draw: people - my mother slapped me for a portrait I did of her, lol. Butterflies, always end up looking like paper planes. Cows, like a pile of cardboard boxes taped together. Weasel, like a christmas stocking etc etc. I do try to draw other things, but I think it comes down to lack of practice. For mammals, I don't see them often enough to draw them, though a couple of hours with squirrels this spring paid off eventually, so I think it is down to the fact it's easier to draw what you're familiar with.
 
Could be that most of us are more familiar with the birds because we spend more time looking at them? Most UK wildlife, particularly mammals, is pretty tricky to get close to. I do paint other subjects too but rarely post them on here as it's birdforum, and my main subject matter is birds. Just don't ask me to draw a car or an airplane convincingly!

I was lucky enough to have a very close encounter with some european wolves a little while back. What struck me was the way the alpha female approached us by using literally any cover available. This painting was the result.

Woody
 

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Thanks Nick and Woody

Familiarity with the subject does make a big difference, and agree most mammels are very secretive and sketching them from life is extremely limited, if not impossible.

Here is the Lizard I was trying to draw, it dawned on me that the apparent edges and lines of such a beast (not being covered in fur or feathers) are not defined by light, shade and shadow as in birds but hard lines and angles? ...hence making an accurate depiction of perspective quite difficult (even though the head in particular is basically a tapered box shape!)

Am I making sense LOL?

Matt
 

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maybe it has something to do with the natural flowing lines of birds that make them easier to work with ..I dunno?

Your thoughts welcomed

Matt

I certainly wouldn't say birds are ''easier'' - In fact, although I just started very recently with birds, I'd say I am struggling enormously especially with painting them! However, all higher vertebrates have a basic anatomy/structure (in fact all 3d objects do!) - I tend to ignore the fur, skin, feathers, scales, etc etc and go for the basic 'form' first, they can be 'clothed' afterwards - you may not have a ''perfectly'' plumaged/furred result immediately, but eventually (I'm hoping) the basic shapes/structure get easier to see and get down then there's more time for details later/at the time - for me, this gives a more convincing form rather than 'attacking' from the surface which can give a rather flat outcome. Other people have different methods but this has always been the way I draw. OK - it's the long road in terms of producing results people ''admire'' ie. accuracy/detailed plumage pattern but I'm beginning to find now with my field sketching that all birds have a common structure which I can get down a bit quicker, thus allowing for more details to be picked up in the field instead of relying on photos/guides to 'finish' drawing which again, can result in flattening the form.
 
I certainly wouldn't say birds are ''easier'' - In fact, although I just started very recently with birds, I'd say I am struggling enormously especially with painting them! However, all higher vertebrates have a basic anatomy/structure (in fact all 3d objects do!) - I tend to ignore the fur, skin, feathers, scales, etc etc and go for the basic 'form' first, they can be 'clothed' afterwards - you may not have a ''perfectly'' plumaged/furred result immediately, but eventually (I'm hoping) the basic shapes/structure get easier to see and get down then there's more time for details later/at the time

This makes perfect sense, and to be honest I'm probably getting ahead of myself with such a relatively difficult subject. As you say I really need to get those ''lines'' down first!

I'm actually in the process of attempting this, I should run out of note pad by late afternoon current rate! (may have to resort to loo roll;))

Matt
 
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Mammals are sooo hard to draw

- partly lack of knowledge in my case (no idea how their legs are structured etc.)

- but also I think they do present inherently more difficult shapes, as Matt suggested in his opening post.

Take a horse's head (not in a Godfather sort of way of course) - it is utterly distinctive, but unless you are a horsey person, near impossible to draw.

I get on a bit better with ultra furry animals as most of the hard bits are hidden and had planned a Musk ox trip this August until other things got in the way. Might happen next year, so if you see something posted on here looking like Dougal off magic roundabout, you will know where I have been.
 
Mammals are sooo hard to draw

- partly lack of knowledge in my case (no idea how their legs are structured etc.)

- but also I think they do present inherently more difficult shapes, as Matt suggested in his opening post.

Take a horse's head (not in a Godfather sort of way of course) - it is utterly distinctive, but unless you are a horsey person, near impossible to draw.

Funny you mention horses!, was looking over some pics of paintings by the 18th century horse painter George Stubbs recently and was overwelmed at the accuracy of his work ~ I believe he made an indepth study of horse anatomy and I think he even dissected animals himself? (often victims of the race tracks of the time)

Having a knowledge of an animals internal structure as regards to bone, muscle etc undoubtedly gives some advantage where structure is concerned.

Will be keeping an eye out for Dougal!

Matt
 
I used to draw horses in great detail as a kid - worked for several years at a riding stables and rode a lot too - much much later, when I started doing sculpture on my Foundation year at Art College (didn't go any further I might add!!), I began to reduce all my forms down to basic circles (for mass) and lines (for movement) when I began to get a bit more ''creative'', but the same approach I think can apply to ''looking'' at the subject regardless of how you want to paint or draw it

An example of what I mean

eg. A very very basic Horse

Btw: Personally I'm not overly impressed with simple accuracy/life like reproductions Matt, if that is all ''art'' is about, we might as well stick to photography but of course it's always a matter of personal taste I suppose - my favorite artists are Post-Impressionists/cubists as well as Leonardo, Raphael and Micheangelo (the latter excelling at accuracy and creativity)
 

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I went to a Holman Hunt exhibition a few years ago and remember being blown away by his studies of dissected animals.

Woody
 
Hi Matt see you put a photo on couldn't resist the temptation to have a go.
If I went for detail I would use pen & ink but to many scales but would make a good picture.
 

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I used to draw horses in great detail as a kid - worked for several years at a riding stables and rode a lot too - much much later, when I started doing sculpture on my Foundation year at Art College (didn't go any further I might add!!), I began to reduce all my forms down to basic circles (for mass) and lines (for movement)

I tried something similar myself earlier, instead of trying to get the correct line I composed a Lizard made up of many cubes of varying sizes and angles, each drawn in the correct perspective, then I tried to merge them into a singuler shape that would hopefully represent a Lizard!

It kinda worked too, made for an interesting expriment.

But your horse works very well, the mood and pose is immediately evident and quite reminiscent of celtic art work (particularly found on coins and brooches of the period) which I know you are familiar with.

Arthur

That Lizard is fantastic! ~ love it

Something to aspire to!

Matt
 
I used to draw horses in great detail as a kid - worked for several years at a riding stables and rode a lot too - much much later, when I started doing sculpture on my Foundation year at Art College (didn't go any further I might add!!), I began to reduce all my forms down to basic circles (for mass) and lines (for movement) when I began to get a bit more ''creative'', but the same approach I think can apply to ''looking'' at the subject regardless of how you want to paint or draw it

An example of what I mean

eg. A very very basic Horse

Btw: Personally I'm not overly impressed with simple accuracy/life like reproductions Matt, if that is all ''art'' is about, we might as well stick to photography but of course it's always a matter of personal taste I suppose - my favorite artists are Post-Impressionists/cubists as well as Leonardo, Raphael and Micheangelo (the latter excelling at accuracy and creativity)

Hi matt

I think to ever draw a lizard on a rock, would be bit adventurous to begin with. I think I would struggle with that myself. Super picture by the way.

I do not know if this may help for a suggestion here, but how about simply trying some still life pictures, to sketch and paint.

Either it be fruit in a bowl, shape, or a vase as this would give you the feel for tone and reflection of the light of the objects you are looking at. Changing tones, and moods come into it. It gives you a feel for your subject.

Details as bird feathers, lizards bodies etc.. will be the next step up as animals are so complex with their body parts

A confession here, I painted a Blue Tit a while ago and made him look too fat. It went with is my tummy to big in this LOL :-C
I tried to cover up my error, and it has never been cured so it is not visible to the eye. A mark still exists where I tried to change his body, but it never worked. This was with water colours. The painting was taken of a photograph I had on me. Never mind. :-C

Like with all art it is getting the basic shapes correct, and in proportion to one another. That is half the battle.

Another thing is getting to grips with your subject in the near and far poses. The further away the subject you have to think of size, proportions and dimensions in relation to the subject. Does that make sense LOL.

Of course field sketches/sketches in general are great too for you to try and get the hang off. Pencil sketches are ideal to start with too. Free flowing art, is great to start with, and it is an expressive thing to do.

Hope this helps. Let us know what you do ;)

Arthur

Lovely drawing of the Lizard by the way :-O

Hi deborah

What you have done with the horse picture is good for a beginner to work off - very old world charm.

I love horses too so it is a small world here. Love drawing them too. ;)

Regards
Kathy
 
Hi Matt, I couldn't resist either!

Actually I think it would be more fun to paint with those glorious colours - got bored with sketching it halfway through (as usual!) but made a start - head was bl*ody hard for some reason

Didn't scan very well think my scanner's on the blink but an idea anyway

Kathy: Cheers (it actually works everytime in almost any position, just have to join the circles up with the legs and spine) - use circles too for fetlocks and elbows etc)
 
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Hi Matt, I couldn't resist either!

Actually I think it would be more fun to paint with those glorious colours -

I agree about the colours, I would love to be able to paint something like this in oils in very minute detail.

Your lizard is great too, you've given it a real sense of ''body'' and movement ..looks about ready to dart off (which it eventually did!)

Matt
 
Hi Matt, I couldn't resist either!

Actually I think it would be more fun to paint with those glorious colours - got bored with sketching it halfway through (as usual!) but made a start - head was bl*ody hard for some reason
Kathy: Cheers (it actually works everytime in almost any position, just have to join the circles up with the legs and spine) - use circles too for fetlocks and elbows etc)

Your lizard is great too, you've given it a real sense of ''body'' and movement ..looks about ready to dart off (which it eventually did!)
Matt

Hi Deborah

Thanks for your comments about the horses.

I think it would be too. At least the lizard will stay still for a period of time, to get a good sketch. Yes, add a bit of paint whenever you feel like it.

Deborah, I agree with Matt the sketch of your Lizard is super. Matt, another way here. If you are going to throw yourself in here with your lizard, I would feel inclined to have a detailed sketch, and an outline of the same sketch to work of with the paints. It is like painting with numbers here. Just gives you options too. A bit of paint, and self-expression is not a bad thing either.
It is a super shot you have to work off, and I would give it a try, and see how you get along here. Love to see the results

There are so many ways you could do this. ;)

I am quite old fashioned in my painting, and stick to the rules a bit here. ;)

Regards
Kathy
 
Hi Matt:
Every one had to start some where. Take a look at my first effort at painting at the bottom of this page http://www.stephenpowell.com.au/Students.htm. I've come a long way with determination to get better. I don't believe in an artistic gift, all the best artists I know worked hard and got gifted. Do another 50 drawings you will be surprised by the results.
 
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