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Canon vs Nikon - entry level. (1 Viewer)

Andrew Whitehouse said:
The DSLR/70-300 combinations mentioned on this thread are well under a kilo in weight combined, so not that much more than most superzooms (and less than some). About as much as a 42mm pair of binoculars, in fact. The 70-300 mentioned also has pretty much silent focusing so is a relatively quiet set up, even with some shutter noise from the camera. [...] Maybe not such real trade offs?
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I had already agreed in an earlier post that the Nikkor 70-300 AF-P DX lens is a very nice, sharp and cheap lens. In particular as it works on the FT1 with a V2.

It is not only about reach and IQ, also about money and preferences. I've had two repairs of broken shutters (á Euro 150). It can save money to use an electronic shutter. You are right about the weight of the 70-300 set-up. I meant the 150-600 teles, none of which is significantly below 2kg.
 
So, after loads of advice and on-line research I’ve discovered that trying to get a used d7200 is akin to finding rocking-horse dung, nigh on impossible, and anyway it looks to be out of my budget range. The latest idea is a d5600 and a 70-300mm DX VR ED from a really good camera shop in Chester (or from Amazon).

Anyone with anything positive/negative to say about the d5600 please feel free. The argument about 300mm for birding is about played out and I’m with Andrew Whitehouse in that respect. Nothing to stop me going for a long Tamron lens at a future date.
 
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Thanks everyone for your input. I’ve placed an order for a D5600 with an 18-55 kit lens and a 70-300 DX VR ED lens. Both are new and costing me a few quid less than the John Lewis kit at £799 which included the same 2 lenses but with a D5300 body. I’m pleased with the price and also with the amount of advice I’ve been given on the forum. I could have probably got the same kit with a used D7200 for around another 50-60 quid but getting hold of a used D7200 isn’t that easy.

I intend to get the latest SanDisk Extreme UHC SD card that boasts 300mb transfer speed just to keep the outfit motoring along nicely.

I’ll be back when I need advice about how to use the flipping things properly!
 
Apodidae49 said:
I intend to get the latest SanDisk Extreme UHC SD card that boasts 300mb transfer speed just to keep the outfit motoring along nicely.
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I hope you'll enjoy your camera. But I believe the D5600 uses UHS-I cards. While faster cards are downwards compatible, an UHS-I card like the Sandisk Extreme Pro with a write speed of 90MB/s or so should suffice.
 
HermitIbis said:
I hope you'll enjoy your camera. But I believe the D5600 uses UHS-I cards. While faster cards are downwards compatible, an UHS-I card like the Sandisk Extreme Pro with a write speed of 90MB/s or so should suffice.
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Thanks, that’s saved me around £40. It’s twice as fast as the current one I have in my LUMIX.
 
You should get great autofocus performance with the newest d5600 plus those AF-P lenses. These newer cameras also let you shoot at pretty high ISO with ok results. I'm sure you'll get a lot of great results!

You will want to google the settings to use for wildlife or bird photography. Thinks like autofocus mode, spot vs area selection, picture control, sharpening, etc. The main downside w/ the 5000 series vs the 7000 series is the lack of the U1+U2 preset control, so on the d5600 you'll need to go into the menus to change things. You could maybe try the "sports" scene mode to get started for birds (I don't use these scene modes much except the "lo key" one like twice a year).

Post some images in the gallery or a new post when you get the chance, I'm sure we'd like to know how it works out for you.
 
Camera and lens on their way, ordered lens hoods for each lens and a UV filter for both and got the SanDisk Extreme 95mb card for it. Currently watching a crop of Lowepro Slingshot AW 202’s on eBay to keep everything in one place. In the interest of general photography, I’m thinking of getting a spare battery and the DX 10-20 VR lens.

I have a future eye on the Tamron 150-600. I presume that Tamron have built some kind of image stabilisation/vibration reduction into a lens that long?
 
Also, as DX means that zooms have a +X crop factor I suppose this also applies to the bottom end of the zoom and a 10-20 DX becomes, say, a 15-30 on the camera?
 
Apodidae49 said:
Also, as DX means that zooms have a +X crop factor I suppose this also applies to the bottom end of the zoom and a 10-20 DX becomes, say, a 15-30 on the camera?
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Yes, that is correct. It's a 1.5x crop factor for the Nikon APS-C sensor, so 10-20 becomes 15-30.

My 24MP D7200 also has a 1.3 in-camera crop factor mode as well @15.4MP ..... that's why I recommended it - you are right though - rare as rocking horse p**p 2nd hand - must be lots of happy users :)

I have the Tokina 12-28 f4 DX PRO, and so it becomes an 18-42, but I can extend that at the top end with the 1.3x in-camera crop to make ~55mm. That way I've got 18-55. With it's 2.33x range, I'm pretty sure the Tokina is the largest multiplication range wide angle zoom on the market, most are around 2x. I always want more though, so I really wish my lens was a bit wider and went from 10-30 f3.5, that would be super cool getting me from 15-58.

So yeah, getting a 10 to whatever is a good move.

I use the extra 1.3x crop all the time, particularly for birding with the 600 Tammy.

Ultimately it really makes no difference to the view whether you crop in-camera or in post processing. It just gives me a better idea of framing with the wide angle, and with the Tammy it's good because I can get an extra fps, and reduced file size.




Chosun :gh:
 
There will be a drop off in image quality, drop off in focus speed/accuracy in lower light, and I believe that the Tamron TC reports back at f8 in order to work at all, so you are limited to your camera's f8 focus spots - you'd have to check if this is just the centre one or even if the D5600 can do it at all ..... otherwise it's manual focus.




Chosun :gh:.
 
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Chosun Juan said:
There will be a drop off in image quality, drop off in focus speed/accuracy in lower light, and I believe that the Tamron TC reports back at f8 in order to work at all, so you are limited to your camera's f8 focus spots - you'd have to check if this is just the centre one or even if the D5600 can do it at all ..... otherwise it's manual focus.




Chosun :gh:.
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Thanks again for that Chosun, probably give that a swerve then. I think I am in a position to acquire a Tamron 150-600 G2 shortly after my camera arrives. Seen them as low as £835 new from a photographic eBay retailer. Presumably these are grey imports? Anyway the retailer has a physical outlet in Derbyshire that I could get to when making an important purchase like this.
 
Apodidae49 said:
Thanks again for that Chosun, probably give that a swerve then. I think I am in a position to acquire a Tamron 150-600 G2 shortly after my camera arrives. Seen them as low as £835 new from a photographic eBay retailer. Presumably these are grey imports? Anyway the retailer has a physical outlet in Derbyshire that I could get to when making an important purchase like this.
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I'm not saying that the Tamron 1.4xTC is no good on the G2, only stating the obvious - ie. that to start with the 150-600 G2 is not up to the same high levels of MTF of Nikon's 600 f4 FL or Canon's 600 f4L (both with fluorite elements) and so, relatively, takes a bit more of an IQ hit than do these two uber $$$ lenses once you put a 1.4xTC on it (they both function well without any 'practical' loss of IQ).

[EDIT] [If you do decide you want the extra reach of the Tamron 1.4xTC, then make sure to get the Tamron branded one as it is purpose designed and matched to work with Tamron lenses including the 150-600 G2. You would mostly want to shoot static subjects off a tripod or super steady rest such as a large beanbag and use remote or timed release (perhaps with mirror up too) - you will need every bit of help when pushing gear this far, and you will need ultra clear and still atmosphere too. Even with all the focal length and TC you will want to get as close as possible to retain some semblance of detail].

As you would expect, AF wouldn't be fast at f(8) on the Tammy + TC anyway. What you should do is follow up with the compatability of the combination with the D5600 to see if AF is enabled, and if so, with which points and mode.

When it comes down to it, the question is - do you get better results with the TC or by cropping the picture from the bare lens down to the same image size ....... ?? :cat:

The other thing to note is that there is a lot of unit to unit variability in quality with these consumer super telephoto zooms, so if possible try the exact unit you will be buying and compare a few copies if you can.




Chosun :gh:
 
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Thanks again Chosun, you are obviously more knowledgeable on photographic matters than I am. In the past I have owned film SLRs (Zenith, Olympus OM10, Canon Eos) but probably never pushed them to the limit of their capabilities. There are some excellent tutorial videos on YouTube about the camera (one is 1hr24min) and the Tamron lens, which I will watch as they may tell me more, initially, than the manual. At least you get a manual with this camera and not a disk or online link.

UPDATE: The camera just arrived so the odyssey starts here!
 
Apodidae49 said:
Thanks again Chosun, you are obviously more knowledgeable on photographic matters than I am. In the past I have owned film SLRs (Zenith, Olympus OM10, Canon Eos) but probably never pushed them to the limit of their capabilities. There are some excellent tutorial videos on YouTube about the camera (one is 1hr24min) and the Tamron lens, which I will watch as they may tell me more, initially, than the manual. At least you get a manual with this camera and not a disk or online link.

UPDATE: The camera just arrived so the odyssey starts here!
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Coming from film gives you all you need to know - just sub ISO for film ASA and away you go. You still want to factor in the reciprocal rule for shutter speed. So with your 70-300 lens, you will want at least 1/500th second (300x1.5) even with VR on. Of course this is really too slow to isolate breeze ruffled feathers, or a quick head twitch, and you're better off with higher shutter speeds, especially for BIF.

For some reason the sensor in the D5600 is about a third of a stop behind my D7200 in DR even though both are 24MP. I try and keep my ISO at or below 400 for good results, and below 200 they are really nice. Still, a lot of other cameras are just waking up at around 2-400 ISO compared to the Nikon, and I've had pretty good results up to ISO 3200. Beyond that I think you're better off going for the 'arty' noisy look.

Just as a quick heads up, when I'm mostly shooting birds with the big Tammy it is hand held, and I use "Auto ISO" mode. I will set a minimum shutter speed of 1/2000th sec and depending on the light at the time, an ISO range of 100-1600 usually up to a max of 3200. This lets you snap away without worrying about each individual setting. I probably do 80% of my shooting like this, and just adjust exposure compensation for each shot or series as necessary. Probably the hardest scenario is with a pied cormorant flying high speed circuits around you - into bright sunshine on one side and shadow on the other. If they come really close and you have to change zoom as well, then you will end up busier than a one arm bricklayer in Beirut !!! :-O

I suppose you are familiar with the concept of ETTR (expose to the right) ie. depending on the situation, lighting and ISO, mostly make sure that you get all the shadows on the histogram, and then it is possible to recover some highlights in post processing. This will keep the noise levels down as much as possible.

Enjoy your new toy ..... and get the Tammy G2 ASAP ! :)




Chosun :gh:
 
Andrew Whitehouse said:
Here are some reviews for the 70-300mm AF-P, which I mentioned earlier. It weighs 400 grams and is available at around £339. [snip]

I don't have a problem with the idea that a bigger and more expensive lens is going to give better results in most situations (though I wonder if all are as sharp or quick to focus as this lens). However, this is really a different type of lens that is so small it's almost imperceptible to carry. Even if one were to graduate to a big lens, I think you'd hang on to this lens for when you want something lighter and smaller that can still give very good results. In my experience it's a significant step up from other cheapish 300mm zoom lenses. The IQ, focus speed (it hardly hunts at all) and sharpness are much better than anything similar that I've ever used. It's also pretty much at its best wide open at 300mm.
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I agree. It's an amazing lens for the size and weight, not to mention the price. And with modern cameras you can crop quite a bit if the bird is too far away. In fact, unless you use good prime *and* a high quality converter the results from cropping are almost always better than when you use a converter.

BTW, the autofocus is *very* fast, even on an entry level camera like the D3300.

Hermann
 
70-300 DX VR ED lens arrived and duly had UV filter fitted.

Watched a couple of tutorials about the D5600, one with a shouty bloke who looked like he’d escaped from an episode of The Hair Bear Bunch and another of nearly an hour and a half that was really instructive on how to set the camera up, negotiate the menus and explain about the various modes of AF, etc.

Set up the Nikon SnapBridge app link which seems to be working okay.

On the major plus side an offer of £130 off the new Tamron 150-600 G2 with a high street camera retailer brings it down to £999 but it’s still going for £834 new on eBay. Decisions, decisions!
 
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