Trinovid bn 8x32, are they still worthy? (2 Viewers)

John M Robinson · Aug 12, 2018

In answer to those pointing out they are older technology and there are better binos out there, I agree, but if you look at the total package, fit, durability, Leica no-fault lifetime warranty and the fact the optics gap is very small, I think it's a no-brainer to buy them.

If you're a regular on this forum, you are probably an optics nut, looking for the most minute improvement as each new model. Some of us find a model that just suits us and our purpose, and use it happily the rest of our life. I got caught up in the obsession when I first joined, and before I knew it I owned the latest 8x42 Ultravid, 8x32 and 10x42 Nikon SEs, Pentax DCF, Swaro 8.5x42 ELs and others, and I wasn't happy with any of them knowing there was an even better bino out there. After a while I kind of settled into just using my binos and I found contentment.

I believe I could live happily ever after with a new set of 8x32 BNs.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 12, 2018

I have had two 8x32 BN's and one 8x32 BA and one 7x42 BN. I think if you want an older classic binocular they are fine but my point is for $700.00 you can get a better view of the bird with newer glass. The big difference is brightness and contrast with the newer binoculars being much better because of the HD glass and coating improvements. They have more pop. IMO the optics gap is large. It depends on what you want. Also, I would be concerned about a binocular that has possibly sat around in the box somewhere for 10 to 15 years also because of rubber seals and parts deteriorating. I actually preferred the BA over the BN because I found it sharper even though the focus wasn't as close. The Jaguar XKE is "Legendary" also but it doesn't compare with the latest Corvettes.

ceasar · Aug 12, 2018

[email protected] said:
I would wait for the new Tract Toric UHD 8x42 with Schott Glass. It has an unconditional lifetime warranty which does not even require registration. It will outperform the BN for about the same price especially in transmission and CA control because of the higher quality glass. The BN is a like an old classic car. It is cool looking and built well but it will not perform like the newer binoculars with HD glass. You are buying an old classic and that is fine if you are into classics but if you want the best optical performance for your money get something newer. If you like Leica have you considered the new Trinovid? One can be had for almost the same as what you are paying for an 18 year old binocular. As the other poster said I would seriously worry about the seals on a binocular that has been sitting around in a box possibly at high temperatures for that long. Rubber gets old and loses it's flexibility. Here is a brand new Leica Trinovid with HD glass for not much more than you are paying for the old one. Offer him $800.00. They ship to Canada. Allbinos has the Leica 10x42 BN's ranked 23rd place so they think there are a lot of binoculars that are superior.

https://www.allbinos.com/allbinos_ranking-binoculars_ranking-10x42.html

https://www.allbinos.com/148-binoculars_review-Leica_Trinovid_10x42_BN.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Leica-8x32...id+8x32+hd&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=m570.l1313

Dennis,

Regarding your comments on the Allbinos ranking of the Leica 10x42 BN:

To be fair, Allbinos reviewed the Leica 10x42 BN in 2010, 6 years after they were discontinued; and in the summary of the review they ranked them 9th in the OVERALL ranking of 10x42 binoculars but 44th in the ECONO ranking.

In the Pros and Cons, Allbinos only complaint about them was that their "whiteness rendition could be better" and they stated that it was "virtually without faults."

https://www.allbinos.com/148-binoculars_review-Leica_Trinovid_10x42_BN.html

Here is a thread you started about the Leica 7x42 BN in 2007 saying "Leica 7x42 Bn's Best Binoculars I Have Ever Used!"

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=84073

In Post #4 I agreed with you!

The Leica BNs have aged gracefully, like a fine wine!B

Bob

jgraider · Aug 12, 2018

For over 15 years I had a 10x42 BN around my neck. It performed exceptionally well. Since then I've had numerous glass that is better optically than those, including the Toric UHD. I had the chance to view the current Toric's at the TTHA show this weekend, as well as the new HT's in 8x and 10x42 configs. I only got to see them indoors, but tried to test them as best I could by viewing cobwebs in unlit corners, etc. The new HT's are superb.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 12, 2018

ceasar said:
Dennis,

Regarding your comments on the Allbinos ranking of the Leica 10x42 BN:

To be fair, Allbinos reviewed the Leica 10x42 BN in 2010, 6 years after they were discontinued; and in the summary of the review they ranked them 9th in the OVERALL ranking of 10x42 binoculars but 44th in the ECONO ranking.

In the Pros and Cons, Allbinos only complaint about them was that their "whiteness rendition could be better and they stated that it was "virtually without faults."

https://www.allbinos.com/148-binoculars_review-Leica_Trinovid_10x42_BN.html

Here is a thread you started about the Leica 7x42 BN in 2007 saying "Leica 7x42 Bn's Best Binoculars I Have Ever Used!"

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=84073

In Post #4 I agreed with you!

The Leica BNs have aged gracefully, like a fine wine!B

Bob

Bob. That is exactly my point. The BN's might have been 9th place 7 years ago but ranked with the newer binoculars they dropped to 23rd place. The thread on the Leica 7x42 BN was 11 YEARS OLD. That was before all the new binoculars came out like the Swarovision's and Nikon HG's. My point is the newer binoculars will simply outperform the BN's for about the same price. If you compare a BN side by side with a new Nikon HG you will see a big difference. Way more pop and contrast in the HG and the BN will seem dull in comparison much like a Canon 10x30 ISII. Glass and coatings have made huge strides in the last 18 years since the BN was introduced. Wine get's better with age binoculars just get older and fall behind in technology. The BN is an example. The Nikon HG or even a Vanguard Endeavor EDII will give you a better view of the bird than the BN.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 12, 2018

jgraider said:
For over 15 years I had a 10x42 BN around my neck. It performed exceptionally well. Since then I've had numerous glass that is better optically than those, including the Toric UHD. I had the chance to view the current Toric's at the TTHA show this weekend, as well as the new HT's in 8x and 10x42 configs. I only got to see them indoors, but tried to test them as best I could by viewing cobwebs in unlit corners, etc. The new HT's are superb.

Were the new HT's better than the BN's optically?

ceasar · Aug 12, 2018

[email protected] said:
Bob. That is exactly my point. The BN's might have been 9th place 7 years ago but ranked with the newer binoculars they dropped to 23rd place. The thread on the Leica 7x42 BN was 11 YEARS OLD. That was before all the new binoculars came out like the Swarovision's and Nikon HG's. My point is the newer binoculars will simply outperform the BN's for about the same price. If you compare a BN side by side with a new Nikon HG you will see a big difference. Way more pop and contrast in the HG and the BN will seem dull in comparison much like a Canon 10x30 ISII. Glass and coatings have made huge strides in the last 18 years since the BN was introduced. Wine get's better with age binoculars just get older and fall behind in technology. The BN is an example. The Nikon HG or even a Vanguard Endeavor EDII will give you a better view of the bird than the BN.

Dennis,

They were ranked 23rd based on an average between being ranked 9th optically and 44th economically.

They were still optically the 9th best 10x42s 12 years after they were introduced in 1998 and 4 years after they were discontinued in 2006 and today they cost even less than they did in 2010. And Allbinos also noted that mechanically they were nearly flawless.

How high will the new Tract Torics be rated next year let alone 12 years from now compared to other binoculars of similar quality?

Bob

denco@comcast.n · Aug 13, 2018

The fact is the Nikon HG 10x42(144.7) and the Vanguard Endeavor II 10x42(144.8) out performed the Leica BN 10x42(139) in Allbino's review. The trouble with the BN is it is an old discontinued binocular that Leica has never made any major improvements to since production stopped 10 years ago. It is dead. It has been replaced by the new Trinovid HD and Ultravid HD. The Tract Toric HT is a new current binocular and Tract will probably continue to make improvements to it so it should compete very well in the future. The BN is an old ,discontinued binocular that was cutting edge 15 years ago but not anymore. It will continue to fall further and further behind the newer binoculars.

jgraider · Aug 13, 2018

[email protected] said:
Were the new HT's better than the BN's optically?

Mr. Magoo could even see it.......

Yuk · Aug 13, 2018

I feel reluctant to get in between Dennis and Bob, they both obviously speak with way more authority than I will ever have. But... I do want to remind those who are interested, that the $700.00 binoculars Dennis keeps talking about don't exist in Canada. For example, Nikon HGs sell for approximately $1200.00 CDN. That's 30% more than what I would be paying for the BNs. I haven't looked through HGs, but I have spent a good amount of time looking through new Swarovski EL 8.5x42s. To my eyes, the Swaros don't look 30% better than the Trinovid BNs, so I find the modern technology argument slightly underwhelming.
Now, having said all this, I reserve the right to change my mind.

Yuk · Aug 13, 2018

Correction... The Nikon HGs are way more expensive in Canada, they average around $1450.00 here. That's more than 60% higher than what I'd be paying for the BNs. As much as I'd like them to be, I really doubt the HGs are 60% better than the BNs.

The TORIC 8x42 SCHOTT HT are $684.00 USD. I'd be paying $900.00 CDN + duty and shipping handling. By my math, I'd be lucky to land the Torics in Canada for less than $1000.00. Like I've said, "The idea of having Leica binoculars is very intriguing... but not at any price and not if there is a substantially better option out there."

ceasar · Aug 13, 2018

[email protected] said:
The fact is the Nikon HG 10x42(144.7) and the Vanguard Endeavor II 10x42(144.8) out performed the Leica BN 10x42(139) in Allbino's review. The trouble with the BN is it is an old discontinued binocular that Leica has never made any major improvements to since production stopped 10 years ago. It is dead. It has been replaced by the new Trinovid HD and Ultravid HD. The Tract Toric HT is a new current binocular and Tract will probably continue to make improvements to it so it should compete very well in the future. The BN is an old ,disconA ontinue to fall further and further behind the newer binoculars.

Those are interesting observations.

How often do you think the average person should change binoculars considering all the changes that have been made in them since 1990 up to the present and the changes that will be made in the future?

Is a person foolish to purchase a 10 year old famous name "Alpha" binocular in new condition for a low price when he or she can get a brand new binocular for a similar price which has all the newest bells and whistles from a company that has them made under contract by a Japanese or Chinese optical company?

denco@comcast.n · Aug 13, 2018

Mr Magoo would!:-O. The Tract's are made in Japan and in my experience they are just as high quality as anything out there. I have purchased some binoculars from Canada and I never paid duties like you are talking about. That is surprising to me. My point is in the US you can get an optically superior binocular to the BN by buying the newer technology like the Tract HT or Nikon HG. I would worry about the seals leaking on a fifteen year old binocular. There have been a couple of reviews where Leica's have leaked. But it sounds like you are sold on the BN so perhaps that is your best option. If you don't think the Swarovski SV 8.5x42 is that much better than the BN that tells me you are either not very critical or you like the view through the BN. One thing though to remember is the improvement in optics is not directly proportional to the price. So in the HG's you are not going to get a 60% improvement in performance because they are 60% more expensive. The improvements are incremental and decrease as the price goes up. You really have to be a perfectionist to appreciate the view through an alpha level binocular. It takes a lot of viewing and comparing binoculars over time.

etudiant · Aug 13, 2018

ceasar said:
Those are interesting observations.

How often do you think the average person should change binoculars considering all the changes that have been made in them since 1990 up to the present and the changes that will be made in the future?

Is a person foolish to purchase a 10 year old famous name "Alpha" binocular in new condition for a low price when he or she can get a brand new binocular for a similar price which has all the newest bells and whistles from a company that has them made under contract by a Japanese or Chinese optical company?

The actual improvements in binocular performance since 1990 are minuscule, a few percent higher light transmission is the main element. The only large innovation has been image stabilization, which remains a niche business.
Given that, it is difficult to justify frequent changes in binoculars, one spends more to get essentially the same result. Buy what pleases, one can be confident that not much will be missed.

Yuk · Aug 13, 2018

[email protected] said:
...I have purchased some binoculars from Canada and I never paid duties like you are talking about.

The North American Free Trade Agreement exempts products made in North America from duties. Items made outside of the U.S. and Mexico will have duties assessed against them, when shipped to Canada, unless some other individual exemption was negotiated. Often the most substantial expenses are the brokerage fees charged by the shipper. Those fees are charged even if no duty is paid.

[email protected] said:
My point is in the US you can get an optically superior binocular to the BN by buying the newer technology like the Tract HT or Nikon HG.

I have always understood your point and 100% agree, but at what cost? A 10 or 20% improvement does not justify, in my mind, a 30 to 60% increase in cost.

[email protected] said:
I would worry about the seals leaking on a fifteen year old binocular. There have been a couple of reviews where Leica's have leaked.

At this time, I am not concerned. There is no statistical evidence to show that the leaking incidents were anything more than rare anomalies. Leica has assured me that their Passport warranty will cover any problem that might occur.

[email protected] said:
But it sounds like you are sold on the BN so perhaps that is your best option.

Perhaps, it just might be. I hate buyers remorse though, and want to make the best, most educated choice I can. I am in no hurry and will continue to get as many opinions as I can.

[email protected] said:
If you don't think the Swarovski SV 8.5x42 is that much better than the BN that tells me you are either not very critical or you like the view through the BN.

I'm humble enough to know that I am far from being a binocular expert. That said, I have been a successful, professional photographer for more than 30 years and rely heavily on my eyes and brain to satisfy customers around the world. I used Canon products professionally for 20 years and switched to Nikon, because I could see an improvement in the final product. So, I think I'm reasonably critical, when necessary. I think your second statement is probably most accurate, "... you like the view through the BN". It could be just that simple.

[email protected] said:
The improvements are incremental and decrease as the price goes up. You really have to be a perfectionist to appreciate the view through an alpha level binocular. It takes a lot of viewing and comparing binoculars over time.

So far, I think the incremental improvements that modern technology have brought, are too minimal to justify the cost in this comparison. I can see most of the improvements, I just haven't been convinced... yet... that they are worth the expense.

Thank you for your time, I really do value everyone's input!

denco@comcast.n · Aug 13, 2018

etudiant said:
The actual improvements in binocular performance since 1990 are minuscule, a few percent higher light transmission is the main element. The only large innovation has been image stabilization, which remains a niche business.
Given that, it is difficult to justify frequent changes in binoculars, one spends more to get essentially the same result. Buy what pleases, one can be confident that not much will be missed.

That may be true for somebody that can't tell the difference between a Tasco and a Swarovski but for us binomaniacs on Bird Forum the changes have been HUGE! What about all the new technology like the Swarovision's with absolute edge sharpness and a perfectly flat field. What about the new Zeiss SF's with their exceptional balance and huge FOV. What about the new Swarovski CL 8x30's with their optical box technology that makes eye placement so much easier. What about dielectric coated prism and Lotutec and other special coatings to make lens cleaning easier. What about HD glass that virtually eliminates CA and improves the view in many other ways. What about the Field Pro strap attachment system that makes attaching straps a snap. What about improved coating technologies that have improved transmission and contrast tremendously in the last 10 years. What about improved more comfortable armour and better smoother, faster focusers. What about integrated diopter controls and coatings that make your lenses more scratch resistant. What about improved baffling to make binoculars more glare resistant. There has been big improvements in binoculars even in the last five years. Compare an old binocular to the latest alpha and will see a big difference. If there was no difference they wouldn't sell any alpha binoculars. Everybody would buy Tasco's.

denco@comcast.n · Aug 13, 2018

"So far, I think the incremental improvements that modern technology have brought, are too minimal to justify the cost in this comparison. I can see most of the improvements, I just haven't been convinced... yet... that they are worth the expense."

That tells me you would be happy with the BN. You can see the improvements in optics but you don't feel YET they are worth the extra expense. You are lucky! Buy the BN. You haven't been bitten by the "Binocular Bug" YET. For me I will pay $2500.00 to get perfectly sharp edges as in the Swarovision. The bug bit me a long time ago.:-O

John M Robinson · Aug 13, 2018

I think we are drilling down to the crux of the issue: at what point is good enough? Denco is obviously a very critical viewer, whereas purely based on view I'm very satisfied with my 90s and 2000s technology Nicon SEs and Ultravid BRs. After trying a lot of alpha binos, I found view was just one of many points I considered important. Size, weight, feel in the hand, fit to my face, eye relief, ease of view, build quality, warrantee, strap and case.

Number one on my list is ease of view, I don't care how optically perfect a bino is, if I can't just pop it up and get the whole picture window view without blackouts, it won't work for me. At one time I owned a Swaro 8.5x42 EL, 8x42 Ultravid BR, 8x32 BN, Nikon 8x32 and 10x42 SEs. They were all very satisfying, and I really didn't see much difference between the little BNs and my Ultravids. I could easily tell they were the same family. So now with the latest TOTL from Leica, Swaro and Zeiss well over $2,000, I am quite happy with my older "obsolete " binoculars.

Yuk · Aug 13, 2018

The word "Yet" made me cringe when I wrote it!

I own the latest, insanely expensive, Swiss, Broncolor flashes, when Chinese lights, costing 1/10th the price would work almost as well. I love the Rolex Explorer "tool watch", when a Seiko SARB 033 is "just as good". I fear I'm not that far behind you, when it comes to binoculars. I pray "yet" lasts a long time!

18000bph · Aug 13, 2018

For someone who is 5ft with small hands I caution you to measure your IPD or try them in person before ordering the 8x32 Trinovid. The 58mm minimum IPD on this model excludes many potential owners. They are too wide for my face and I am of otherwise average proportions.

Trinovid bn 8x32, are they still worthy? (2 Viewers)

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