• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Birding by car - a fundamental question about petrol-saving switch-off systems (1 Viewer)

Nutcracker said:
Never even heard of this sort of car before (non-driver here) - but I'd think in most major cities around the world, a car has to be able to cope with several hours of stop-start-stop-start slow crawl.
Click to expand...

Not on your own there Nutty, my wife gets a new car every 2 years and we've never had this feature, plus we hire regularly abroad and never had it there either?

We've had a RAV4 for a couple of years and still don't know what some of the annoying alarms and noises are for, it even sets off an alarm if it loses connection with your key fob.
 
Last edited:
wolfbirder said:
Ah, thank you, I did find that after a few anxious minutes leaving the car to cool down, it did restart.

I suspect this might be what happened.
Click to expand...

I think this is confusing two very different issues.

Stop/Start technology is factory set and as already said, in most including my Audi, will only kick in if the battery is healthy enough to restart and the electrical demand is within parameters - it tends to deactivate if the A/C is on, or the car is yet to have warmed up. You can turn it off manually and if there are issues with car temp etc it will not turn off, or will restart the car automatically. It therefore "fails" with allowing the engine to run.

In Israel, the key pad is a locally fitted security device and only runs on the ignition circuit. Like all immobilisers, it also has a temper detection. Therefore it "fails" with the engine failing to start. The immobiliser works over the top of existing circuits as factory standard. I have hired many cars of many different manufacturers in Israel over the years and some seem to be OK and others seem to be fickle. Multiple stop starts do seem to be viewed tampering and stop the car starting. All seem to have a delay reset rather than a total fail. So waiting should work.

It is still scary when it happens and always when you are somewhere dodgy.
 
andyadcock said:
Not on your own there Nutty, my wife gets a new car every 2 years and we've never had this feature, plus we hire regularly abroad and never had it there either?

We've had a RAV4 for a couple of years and still don't know what some of the annoying alarms and noises are for, it even sets off an alarm if it loses connection with your key fob.
Click to expand...

Perhaps the feature is disabled for the Russian (and Nordic?) market as I guess in winter re-starting could be a challenge. Surprised you haven't come across it in hire cars though- I rented an Octavia in Slovenia in 2010 and wondered the whole trip why I kept stalling it, never having come across stop-start before. It could be your driving style, if you habitually leave the car in gear when stopping in traffic with your foot on the clutch it won't cut in. With automatics though it happens anyway when you come to a halt, provided as others have said that there isn't too much drain on the electrics.

Getting back to birding, I used to have a hybrid car, and thought it would be good for goose watching. Directly comparing with a friends diesel, it was actually no better - the act of stopping started to spook the geese, not engine noise or vehicles moving past without stopping. I've also had similar experiences to Paul with a stop-start car, where my engine restarting spooked birds we'd been able to approach with the engine on.
 
Muppit17 said:
I think this is confusing two very different issues.

Stop/Start technology is factory set and as already said, in most including my Audi, will only kick in if the battery is healthy enough to restart and the electrical demand is within parameters - it tends to deactivate if the A/C is on, or the car is yet to have warmed up. You can turn it off manually and if there are issues with car temp etc it will not turn off, or will restart the car automatically. It therefore "fails" with allowing the engine to run.

In Israel, the key pad is a locally fitted security device and only runs on the ignition circuit. Like all immobilisers, it also has a temper detection. Therefore it "fails" with the engine failing to start. The immobiliser works over the top of existing circuits as factory standard. I have hired many cars of many different manufacturers in Israel over the years and some seem to be OK and others seem to be fickle. Multiple stop starts do seem to be viewed tampering and stop the car starting. All seem to have a delay reset rather than a total fail. So waiting should work.

It is still scary when it happens and always when you are somewhere dodgy.
Click to expand...

Cor blimey it gets more complicated. I do appreciate the code security system is different again, but it just adds to the woes. Sometimes it would be dead too. Had to leave it for 2-3 minutes before it would make any sound punching in the code- it would be dead as a door mouse too so that makes sense what you say.

I think the moral of the story is not to stop-start too often, such as when edging round km20 pools. Is there any way you can switch off the fuel saving system on a car through it’s settings?

Thanks very much for your detailed post. I’d imagine in some cities multiple stop starting or edging in traffic queues would have created the system stopping for a few minutes, potentially creating all sorts of traffic problems.

But on the other hand it obviously hasn’t done.
 
Last edited:
As others have said, you should be able to turn off the stop-start system. So far found it handy when waiting at lights, or when the traffic comes to a stand still etc.
 
Getzonica said:
As others have said, you should be able to turn off the stop-start system. So far found it handy when waiting at lights, or when the traffic comes to a stand still etc.
Click to expand...

Hopefully in the cars settings, I can turn it off.
Just hope the instruction manual explains how to do that (in English).

Thanks everyone.
 
wolfbirder said:
Certainly is Jos, though I thought an immobiliser was to do with security so it can't be hotwired, not the petrol saving system where it cuts out?
Click to expand...


It is, two different things AFAIK?

The insurance company for our car, insist on having an imobiliser fitted.
 
andyadcock said:
It is, two different things AFAIK?

The insurance company for our car, insist on having an imobiliser fitted.
Click to expand...

I agree - two totally different things.

In principle the stop/start technology should help the sort of birding originally outlined. Put the car in neutral and the engine should stop. Re-engage gear and raise the clutch and the car will restart "automatically" reducing vibration and fuel use whilst stopped.

I have not driven a car with stop start tech in Israel with the immobiliser already fitted, but in principle it should work in the same way. The immobiliser should only work on the electrical circuits that are kept "live" whilst the car engine is stopped.

In theory this is also the answer to the original question. Normally turning off the car is a two step process on the key. Turning on turns on the electrics and then the second stage initiates the engine running. It should be possible to turn the key only to the first setting that turns off the engine but doesn't need the immobiliser to be reset. Most drivers don't realise and treat both as a single stage. It can also be fiddly in some makes. Others have a key for the electrics and then a stop/start dash button to start the car.

However a word of warning in Israel. If you do turn the engine off and keep the A/C running then expect the battery to be dead. You cannot switch off the immobiliser with a dead battery - a push start does not work as I have found to my cost (thankfully in Tel Aviv 100 m from a garage rather than in the middle of the Arava)
 
Muppit17 said:
I agree - two totally different things.

In principle the stop/start technology should help the sort of birding originally outlined. Put the car in neutral and the engine should stop. Re-engage gear and raise the clutch and the car will restart "automatically" reducing vibration and fuel use whilst stopped.
Click to expand...

Thank you Muppit17, appreciate your detailed reply. May I ask another rather silly question?

Do you think there is a time limit each time you stop and it cuts out? Perhaps I may stop 30 seconds only most times, but then would it still restart from neutral if I stopped to watch a bird for 5-10 minutes? Or do you think there is a time-out after which it requires you to turn everything off and start the engine again?

I have found this article about the "Stop-Start" system, apparently all cars have the option to turn the system off....................

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/stop-start-long-term-impact-your-car-s-engine

As you stated, these stop-start systems don't often work anyway if the car is cold, OR if the battery is running flat.
 
Last edited:
It should restart from neutral, based on my experience of using one, as you may be stopped at a traffic light/in a queue for a few seconds, or a few minutes. After a certain amount of time, the engine does restart itself even if you don't put the clutch down, so there is a time limit but can't remember how long it is. I don't think you'd need to turn the car off and on again though.
 
wolfbirder said:
Do you think there is a time limit each time you stop and it cuts out? Perhaps I may stop 30 seconds only most times, but then would it still restart from neutral if I stopped to watch a bird for 5-10 minutes? Or do you think there is a time-out after which it requires you to turn everything off and start the engine again?
Click to expand...

I am not sure that there is clarity and the issues are wrapped up in the two systems.

Please remember that on a start/stop system - if the system detects going out of operating parameters it will start the car engine. So the time is dependent upon the health of the battery or the over time that it detects there is no user input. In the first it depends what you have turned on in terms of electrical circuits - lights, radio, a/c etc will all impact the time that it will accept the engine off. I understand that most (all?) also have a final time that if nothing happens it will still turn on the engine.

The four digit code system is different. If the electrical circuits are turned off - you need to enter the PIN to turn them on again. The tamper settings are not disclosed (for obvious reasons). In all cases you need to turn the key (press the starter button) to start the engine.

All cars I have come across with start stop tech use depressing the clutch as the signal to start the car in Start/Stop mode. You also have to depress the clutch as part of the key starting procedure.
 
Thanks for clarifying.

I feel better informed and more relaxed now. As it should turn on automatically if the battery is low.
 
Warning! This thread is more than 6 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Similar threads

G
  • Article
2024: The Beginning
Replies
4
Views
532
Green Sandpiper
G
kb57
Is the future of birding electric?
3 4 5
Replies
98
Views
7K
ClarkWGriswold
ClarkWGriswold
wolfbirder
Ouarzazate area, Morocco - A brief report from a 3-night trip 22/4/23 - 25/4/23
2
Replies
31
Views
3K
Paul Chapman
Paul Chapman
G
Leica, Zeiss & Swarovski binoculars compared: A personal report
2 3
Replies
42
Views
4K
Paultricounty
P
yarrellii
Vixen @Six 6x18: quirky and surprising pocket binocular
2
Replies
25
Views
3K
has530
has530

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 2 (members: 0, guests: 2)
Back
Top