Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
-
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The full name of "Charles M. N. White" (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Björn Bergenholtz
- Start date
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Miss Kathleen White
Short revisit to some of the birds of Mr. White ... with some tiny, minor additions.
If we´re to trust the last sentence of the Obituary of Charles White (here), I think we can expand the entry for his sister, commemorated in (as in today's HBW Alive Key) ...
I assume she was the one C. W. Benson were in contact with. As Mr. White was "seemingly content to live on his own" I doubt Benson was referring to a daughter (and, if so, a namesake).
The Eponym Dictionary of Birds (2014) makes the same conclusion (here).
For what it´s worth.
Björn
PS. Following a Google search for "Kathleen White" it looks like she was still around in 1986, at least she´s seems to have been mentioned in "The Year's Work Report of Council 1986", BOU, in The Ibis 1987, (as of here, unseen in full, and her name is not visible in this preview). Could be worth checking up. For anyone keen.
Short revisit to some of the birds of Mr. White ... with some tiny, minor additions.
If we´re to trust the last sentence of the Obituary of Charles White (here), I think we can expand the entry for his sister, commemorated in (as in today's HBW Alive Key) ...
... into; miss Kathleen A. A. White (fl. 1978), sister of ... and onwards.
I assume she was the one C. W. Benson were in contact with. As Mr. White was "seemingly content to live on his own" I doubt Benson was referring to a daughter (and, if so, a namesake).
The Eponym Dictionary of Birds (2014) makes the same conclusion (here).
For what it´s worth.
Björn
PS. Following a Google search for "Kathleen White" it looks like she was still around in 1986, at least she´s seems to have been mentioned in "The Year's Work Report of Council 1986", BOU, in The Ibis 1987, (as of here, unseen in full, and her name is not visible in this preview). Could be worth checking up. For anyone keen.
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
kathleenae
Wow! Thereby not only (as I wrote) "some tiny, minor additions" ...
Thanks to Mike and Paul, we now suddenly have her as: Kathleen Alicia A. White (1922–1987)
Well done! :t:
Wow! Thereby not only (as I wrote) "some tiny, minor additions" ...
Thanks to Mike and Paul, we now suddenly have her as: Kathleen Alicia A. White (1922–1987)
Well done! :t:
Taphrospilus
Well-known member
A general question on syn. Prodotiscus regulus described here as https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/00222935608655825 ''Prodotiscus whitei''. What is the first and middle name of R.B. Horniman? Actually it is to much for my intelect to understand the history of his publication here. Was that pamphlet published in 1940 or not? I would assume he is somehow related to Frederick John Horniman family.
As well I am wondering why IOC World bird list consider Apalis thoracica whitei instead of Apalis murina bensoni. Is it because of the logic described in OD here? It's about https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/125290#page/141/mode/1up and https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/125291#page/212/mode/1up .
As well I am wondering why IOC World bird list consider Apalis thoracica whitei instead of Apalis murina bensoni. Is it because of the logic described in OD here? It's about https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/125290#page/141/mode/1up and https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/125291#page/212/mode/1up .
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Although Grant says that R.B. Horniman died in WW2 I can find no casualty record for this name. The facts suggest to me that R.B. Horniman was actually a pseudonym of the aforementioned Capt C.H.B. Grant and this was some sort of elaborate game.
Captain C.H.B. Grant obviously did exist (although I wondered..) and "knocked about" in Tanzania between the wars...
P
Captain C.H.B. Grant obviously did exist (although I wondered..) and "knocked about" in Tanzania between the wars...
P
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The pamphlet was (re)published in 1956 at the behest of Capt. C. H. B. Grant who said in an appendix to the paper that Horniman died during the 1939–45 war.
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l_raty
laurent raty
Opinion 480: https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/34657374
The names as published in the 1940 work were all partially suppressed (suppressed for the purposes of the principle of priority but not for those of the principle of homonymy). This means these names they cannot become valid, and the same names (re)published in a later work are preoccupied by the original ones, hence cannot become valid either.
This also implicitly recognizes that the 1940 work was validly published and that the original names are all available.
The names as published in the 1940 work were all partially suppressed (suppressed for the purposes of the principle of priority but not for those of the principle of homonymy). This means these names they cannot become valid, and the same names (re)published in a later work are preoccupied by the original ones, hence cannot become valid either.
This also implicitly recognizes that the 1940 work was validly published and that the original names are all available.
Grant wrote "during", not "in" the war, though: technically, this does not imply more than temporal coincidence of the two events. Based on the documents published with Op. 480, CMN White would appear to have known Horniman too.
Grant, Claude Henry Baxter whose dates are generally given as 1878-1958
Henry Claude B Grant's birth was registered in the first quarter of 1879, Kensington London.
Death 9 JAN 1958 • Surrey, England
Quite a military career as a private in the Boer war where he was medalled - rising to the rank of Capt in the Great War.
As for the original question, the availability of Apalis thoracica whitei Grant & Mackworth-Praed, 1937?
To me this name appears available as it has nothing to do with the subsequent suppression of the works of Horniman 1940 & Grant 1956.
Henry Claude B Grant's birth was registered in the first quarter of 1879, Kensington London.
Death 9 JAN 1958 • Surrey, England
Quite a military career as a private in the Boer war where he was medalled - rising to the rank of Capt in the Great War.
As for the original question, the availability of Apalis thoracica whitei Grant & Mackworth-Praed, 1937?
To me this name appears available as it has nothing to do with the subsequent suppression of the works of Horniman 1940 & Grant 1956.
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l_raty
laurent raty
Apalis murina whitei Grant & Mackworth-Praed 1937 (now Apalis thoracica whitei) is a nomen novum for Apalis murina bensoni Grant & Mackworth-Praed 1937, which is a junior secondary homonym of Artisornis metopias bensoni Vincent 1935, which is regarded as a synonym of Apalis bamendae strausae Boulton 1931 (now Apalis chapini strausae).
Because we have two 'bensoni' placed in the genus Apalis, the younger one cannot be used.
Moreover: If a name got replaced due to secondary homonymy after 1960, the replacement name must be used only as long as the two homonymous names remain treated as congeneric; if this cease to be the case, the secondary homonymy disappears, and the original name must be reinstated. But if the replacement occurred before 1961 and the substitute is in use, as is the case here, the original name is thereby made permanently invalid and cannot be reinstated -- whitei is now deemed to have permanently replaced bensoni; bensoni would remain invalid even if Apalis thoracica (and with it the bensoni of Grant & Mackworth-Praed) and A. chapini (and with it the bensoni of Vincent) were to become allogeneric.
Because we have two 'bensoni' placed in the genus Apalis, the younger one cannot be used.
Moreover: If a name got replaced due to secondary homonymy after 1960, the replacement name must be used only as long as the two homonymous names remain treated as congeneric; if this cease to be the case, the secondary homonymy disappears, and the original name must be reinstated. But if the replacement occurred before 1961 and the substitute is in use, as is the case here, the original name is thereby made permanently invalid and cannot be reinstated -- whitei is now deemed to have permanently replaced bensoni; bensoni would remain invalid even if Apalis thoracica (and with it the bensoni of Grant & Mackworth-Praed) and A. chapini (and with it the bensoni of Vincent) were to become allogeneric.
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
OK supported by the footnote here https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/107766#page/499/mode/1up .
But why should he have used a pen name? He published several papers under his proper name e.g. Apalis thoracica whitei here.
But note Whites comment here:
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
Am I right if Guttera edouardi chapini was not described by White 1943 as claimed in Avibase but by FRADE, 1924, Bul. Soc. Port. Sci. Nat., Lisbonne, 9: 129 ? Surely dedicated to James Paul Chapin (without having seen the OD). I think Avibase is with his reference partially wrong.
l_raty
laurent raty
Frade F. 1924. Notes d'ornithologie africaine. Bulletin de la Société Portugaise des Sciences Naturelles, 9: 136-140.
...with the name on p. 139: https://books.google.com/books?id=mTJMAAAAYAAJ&q=chapini
The author and date on Avibase ("White, 1943") seem to be those of Guttera edouardi kathleenae. (White CMN. 1943. Three new races from northern Rhodesia. Bull. Brit. Ornithol. Cl., 64: 19-22. https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/page/40587457)
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Martin, OD unseen by me (in full), but Peters' Check-list of birds of the world, vol. 2 (1934), list it as: "Guttera edouardi chapini Frade ... 1926" ... (here)!?
Maybe Avibase confused it with "G. e. kathleenae" White, 1943?
It ought to be found in Fernando Frade's paper Notes d'Ornithologie Africaine, published in Boletim da Sociedade Portuguesa de Ciências Naturais, vol. IX/9 (on p.139), as of here, or here (though don't trust Google's alleged year), alt. here. And here it's again "1924" ... ?
Also; note that volume 9 seems to have been published in several different issues/No.s/numbers (apparently at least 24!).
Good luck finding the proper one.
/B
PS. Oups, while I was typing away, back and forth, inserting links ... Laurent was quicker.
Thus, take my post for whatever it's worth.
--
Maybe Avibase confused it with "G. e. kathleenae" White, 1943?
It ought to be found in Fernando Frade's paper Notes d'Ornithologie Africaine, published in Boletim da Sociedade Portuguesa de Ciências Naturais, vol. IX/9 (on p.139), as of here, or here (though don't trust Google's alleged year), alt. here. And here it's again "1924" ... ?
Also; note that volume 9 seems to have been published in several different issues/No.s/numbers (apparently at least 24!).
Good luck finding the proper one.
/B
PS. Oups, while I was typing away, back and forth, inserting links ... Laurent was quicker.
Thus, take my post for whatever it's worth.
--
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
According http://www.ukbmdcertificateordering...EST/5A/49|W|137883|lancashire|PN|NEWTON&lang= Reference PWEST/5A/49
Kathleen Alicia Annette White
Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Some additional info on a certain: Kathleen (Alicia Annette) White, (1922–1987), here, with a Photo of the lady herself (and her 'Artwork').
Though, note; her alleged/supposed brother Charles (Matthew Newton) White isn't/wasn't mentioned ... ?
Paul (and Martin), how sure are you, regarding her years (as in #4), and the connection to "our" Mr C. M. N. White?
Are you/we dead-certain she is the lady we're looking for ... or?
/B
Though, note; her alleged/supposed brother Charles (Matthew Newton) White isn't/wasn't mentioned ... ?
Paul (and Martin), how sure are you, regarding her years (as in #4), and the connection to "our" Mr C. M. N. White?
Are you/we dead-certain she is the lady we're looking for ... or?
/B
Taphrospilus
Well-known member
Many facts would count for her as I do not think there are many Kathleen A. A. Whites around this time.
Charles White (Father) might point as well to Charles Matthew Newton White. Maybe it is worth to check if his mother was Louise White, nee Newton but I am pretty sure it is her. After thinking again about the case even his third name would point to his mothers maiden name.
And note both are born in Preston.
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Björn Bergenholtz
(former alias "Calalp")
Kathleen's Batis ssp. and her invalid (Crested/Western/Kenyan) Guineafowl
To me, there are still some pieces missing in this puzzle ...
I guess the main thing to find would be; if Charles (Matthew Newton) White had a Brother (or half-brother?) by the name "Geoffrey Noel Platts White". If so we would have a connection to this "Kathleen Alicia Annette White".
This far I haven't seen C. M. N. White's Parents mentioned anywhere.
But, of course, I agree, many bits and pieces, several coincidences and compliances ('facts' is, to me, a somewhat strong word in this case) do talk in her favour. However, at this point we've got nothing but circumstantial evidence.
I also note that Kathleen's Mother's name seems to have been "Louise, nee Newton", in line with the name of Charles Matthew Newton White (maybe indicating that "Geoffrey Noel Platts White", in his turn, had a different Mother? To me "Platts" doesn't sound/look like a given name, or does/is it?)
Either way, I find it a bit odd that the Artist account (in #17) for this certain Kathleen A. A. White only mentions her brother Geoffrey ..., a solicitor (even if he was the owner of the picture Wyre Dock). Surely Veronica McDonnell & Marjorie Gregson (who researched and wrote the piece) would have found, and noted "our guy", a far more spectacular person than his supposed siblings (as in him being; Colonial administrator, Africa explorer/traveller, etc., etc.). If Kathleen's picture was donated to the Lytham St Annes Art Society, in 2017, wouldn't his (supposed) brother Geoffrey have been mentioned in the Obituary of C.M.N. White (from 1979, in #2)?
Just observations ...
This far, in my notes (she's not included in my MS) I'll keep her as: "Miss Kathleen A. A. White (fl. 1978), sister of ... and onwards [possibly/probably: Kathleen Alicia Annette White (1922–1987)]".
Though, I would naturally, gladly delete that 'possibly/probably' part!
Keep digging!
Björn
--
To me, there are still some pieces missing in this puzzle ...
I guess the main thing to find would be; if Charles (Matthew Newton) White had a Brother (or half-brother?) by the name "Geoffrey Noel Platts White". If so we would have a connection to this "Kathleen Alicia Annette White".
This far I haven't seen C. M. N. White's Parents mentioned anywhere.
But, of course, I agree, many bits and pieces, several coincidences and compliances ('facts' is, to me, a somewhat strong word in this case) do talk in her favour. However, at this point we've got nothing but circumstantial evidence.
I also note that Kathleen's Mother's name seems to have been "Louise, nee Newton", in line with the name of Charles Matthew Newton White (maybe indicating that "Geoffrey Noel Platts White", in his turn, had a different Mother? To me "Platts" doesn't sound/look like a given name, or does/is it?)
Either way, I find it a bit odd that the Artist account (in #17) for this certain Kathleen A. A. White only mentions her brother Geoffrey ..., a solicitor (even if he was the owner of the picture Wyre Dock). Surely Veronica McDonnell & Marjorie Gregson (who researched and wrote the piece) would have found, and noted "our guy", a far more spectacular person than his supposed siblings (as in him being; Colonial administrator, Africa explorer/traveller, etc., etc.). If Kathleen's picture was donated to the Lytham St Annes Art Society, in 2017, wouldn't his (supposed) brother Geoffrey have been mentioned in the Obituary of C.M.N. White (from 1979, in #2)?
Just observations ...
This far, in my notes (she's not included in my MS) I'll keep her as: "Miss Kathleen A. A. White (fl. 1978), sister of ... and onwards [possibly/probably: Kathleen Alicia Annette White (1922–1987)]".
Though, I would naturally, gladly delete that 'possibly/probably' part!
Keep digging!
Björn
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Taphrospilus
Well-known member
Could it be that Veronica McDonnell & Marjorie Gregson focus is on arts and not in ornithology? So why mentioning an ornithologist if there is no relationship to arts? He may not that famous at all for them.
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