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Does EMR harm living organisms?

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Old Wednesday 8th May 2019, 16:18   #1601
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Of course the recent Intergovernmental Science-Policy Platform on Biodiversity and Ecosystem Services report squarely laid the blame for the declines in biodiversity on EMR.

Oh wait no it didn't

https://www.ipbes.net/sites/default/...osting_htn.pdf
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 06:52   #1602
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My God, as I write this there’s an ad for “EMF radiation shields” at the bottom of the screen. No place nowadays is safe from the con man, it seems. . ..
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 07:18   #1603
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My God, as I write this there’s an ad for “EMF radiation shields” at the bottom of the screen. No place nowadays is safe from the con man, it seems. . ..
It's like putting a cactus on your desk. It warps space and sucks EMR
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 10:57   #1604
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My God, as I write this there’s an ad for “EMF radiation shields” at the bottom of the screen. No place nowadays is safe from the con man, it seems. . ..
Ha ha, the ad at the bottom of my page is for an online bank ...I am sure our resident fruitcake would approve of that :)
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 13:49   #1605
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Has PH ever listed a source/study/etc. where EMR was on the list of possible or synergistic causes, but wasn't the primary or only source of wildlife or environmental destruction?
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 15:48   #1606
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Has PH ever listed a source/study/etc. where EMR was on the list of possible or synergistic causes, but wasn't the primary or only source of wildlife or environmental destruction?
Good question. My guess is that few if any such sources exist. I’ve certainly never encountered one (not, admittedly, that I’ve delved all that deeply into the literature).
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 16:12   #1607
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...nd-of-the-wild

This is an interesting programme. Doesn't mention EMR but goes into the use of Pesticides; the change in farming practices; habitat encroachment etc. as the probable reason for some of our species declines. Not sure if individuals outside of the U.K. can access Iplayer??
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 17:07   #1608
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Originally Posted by ClarkWGriswold View Post
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episod...nd-of-the-wild

This is an interesting programme. Doesn't mention EMR but goes into the use of Pesticides; the change in farming practices; habitat encroachment etc. as the probable reason for some of our species declines. Not sure if individuals outside of the U.K. can access Iplayer??
This sort of synergistic, sweeping causes is what I'm more familiar with as the cause for species decline, for both animals and insects. Bees in particular are essentially suffering from "death by a thousand cuts."
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Old Thursday 9th May 2019, 17:18   #1609
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Originally Posted by CalvinFold
Has PH ever listed a source/study/etc. where EMR was on the list of possible or synergistic causes, but wasn't the primary or only source of wildlife or environmental destruction?
Good question. My guess is that few if any such sources exist. I’ve certainly never encountered one (not, admittedly, that I’ve delved all that deeply into the litersature).
Too foxy?

But seriously, I'm not a big believer anymore that "one cause destroys them all" ever quite explains the over-time decline of species. It generally turns out to be alot more complicated.

I mean unless it's something obvious like massive poaching (think: pangolins). Okay, and I admit smaller species/sub-species fall to "habitat loss" quickly at times. Just saying things like bees took a long time (relatively) before it hit a critical mass and they started suffering from CCD. The idea being they could handle one problem, then another, and maybe another, but eventually you get "the straw that broke the camel's back."

I haven't seen birds dropping out of the sky near towers, nor declining at a rate that was sudden (slow, subtle decline at best).

EMR does not seem like a "poaching" level problem, at best I can't imagine it as more than one of multiple causes, at worst the straw that broke the camel's back. "The environment" is obnoxiously complicated that way. Not saying EMR is even on this list, just that I would consider that at least much more probable.

In the meantime, if 5G is as deadly as PH says, the US will likely be fielding 5G-based weapons against the world over the next few years (months?).
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Old Monday 13th May 2019, 06:52   #1610
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“Firehouse of falsity”: 5G and Russian propaganda—

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/12/s...core-ios-share
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Old Monday 13th May 2019, 14:17   #1611
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@ Kevin Of course EMR is synergistic--anything else that is destroying wildlife it will of course make worse. And for the record, I did post a paper by Dr. Ronald Kostoff saying that the effects of EMR are synergistic, ages ago. So if pesticides are bad, EMR plus pesticides is obviously worse. Think of it this way: EMR is like AIDS in that it destroys the immune system. Obviously, anything that destroys the immune system will make other things worse, perhaps deadly when on their own they would not have been.

Or think of EMR as habitat destruction. The thing is, EMR has also got other effects besides destroying the immune system--sterility and disorienting migrating species for starters. So what do you think the effects of millions of 5G cell towers will be? Or the effects of 5G ( plus 3G, 4G, LTE and Wi-Fi) from 20,000 satellites in space?

Do you really want to wait and see what happens? Because once all that infrastructure is up there, the chances of stopping the destruction are nil. Zip, zero, nada. Which is why I started this thread. There is no way we can afford to take the risk that the scientists who are saying EMR is really, really dangerous to us and nature are right. The only thing we can do is demand a moratorium on 5G, for starters, and then you just might buy 5 years before we totally destroy the insects to do the studies that will persuade the nay-sayers like fugl that wireless technology is really bloody dangerous. And the reason 5G especially must be prevented is that the insect life cycle is so short. If 5G from space comes in, and it targets insects as some scientists have predicted, and if they are right, by the time everyone gets their act together to protest, there won't be any insects. No insects, no birds, no anything.

So yeah, there is always a chance I (and all the scientists who are warning about wireless technologies) am wrong about this. But there is also a chance I'm right. Do you want to take the risk? I don't.

@ all Has anyone else noticed anything peculiar about the spring migration this year? I made some comments on my previous post about birds avoiding the south side of the island and turning up on the north side. Also in the past few days we have had a black-headed bunting and a flock of Spanish sparrows, neither of which we have seen here before.
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 06:54   #1612
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A self-helper weighs in—

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/24/w...core-ios-share
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 14:55   #1613
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Purple Heron

How about shooting and trapping as being responsible for some of your missing birds?

Lee
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 17:39   #1614
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Purple Heron

How about shooting and trapping as being responsible for some of your missing birds?

Lee
Or just bias-induced blindness?
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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 19:26   #1615
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Migrants don't always ground at the first opportunity (often don't if the weather is OK). How about birds coming in over the South coast in the morning without landing, building up towards the North coast as the day progresses, and migrating on overnight, just like on other Mediterranean islands? Sounds like a completely familiar pattern of behaviour to me.

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Old Tuesday 14th May 2019, 21:57   #1616
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Hi Diana,

Just thought I'd attach a recent Panagopoulos paper that addresses shielding methods and products currently being marketed to protect against anthropogenic electromagnetic fields (AEMF). Apparently, there is already enough concern among the public to support a growing market. However, he's skeptical in that several products may actually exacerbate the problem due to the automatic gain control system built into all cell phones. I was also able to find a recent research paper that he discusses regarding the effectiveness of an aftermarket chip, which apparently does attenuate altered brain wave activity using cell phones.

As he suggests, however, I'd avoid such AEMF products until more independent research is done to clarify what actually happens when in use.

Ed

PS. I've added a recent online report. Distance seems to be the safest form of protection.
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Old Wednesday 15th May 2019, 14:22   #1617
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@ Lee I don't think so. In our area, there is no hunting. Anyway, no one is hunting chaffinches and some of the other small birds that have gone missing. Partridges, maybe, it being a so-called game bird, but I know many areas where no one is hunting and where we used to see maybe 100 on a walk and now you might see one if you're lucky. So while there is hunting and it might account for some bird losses generally, I don't think it's thye main culprit by any means, certainly not now during the migration season--hunting ended at the end of January.

@ Farnboro John Possible, but I don't think so. As I said, the south coast has the wetlands, so traditionally this is where the waders head for--except this year, when every time we have gone there has been virtually nothing. If what you suggest were happening on a regular basis, people on the north coast would not be reporting birds they have never seen before, but would have seen them on occasion, if not every year. But it is unusual to see the wetlands of the south coast empty while the north coast is getting birds that do not normally appear there.

@ Ed Many thanks for these, and I will enjoy reading them. As for whether shielding helps, there is an interesting little Japanese study that has just been done that might interest you regarding sperm motility and Wi-Fi. It's a very small study, and it's not published yet, but it is the first one to be done concerning Wi-Fi and fertility, and it definitely suggests that spending your life in Wi-Fi is a very bad idea if you ever want to have children. Some of the subjects carries shielded phones, and it seems they provided some, but not total, protection. Here's the link: https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/ea...ew-study-shows

The thing that Martin Pall says very strongly in his 90-page book, which I posted a little while ago, is that infertility (male and female) is already reaching epidemic proportions, and it is irreversible. People treat the suggestion that mobile phones, Wi-Fi etc. are dangerous as a joke, but of course they won't think so when they want children and can't have them, as is increasingly happening.
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Old Thursday 16th May 2019, 01:34   #1618
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... The thing that Martin Pall says very strongly in his 90-page book, which I posted a little while ago, is that infertility (male and female) is already reaching epidemic proportions, and it is irreversible. People treat the suggestion that mobile phones, Wi-Fi etc. are dangerous as a joke, but of course they won't think so when they want children and can't have them, as is increasingly happening.
Yeah, it's a real side-splitter as shown in the attached review of 179 published articles about radiations and male fertility.
Maybe it's the ultimate answer to overpopulation now that I think about it.
Ed
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Radiations and male fertility.pdf (898.2 KB, 9 views)
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Old Monday 20th May 2019, 12:21   #1619
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@ Ed Too bad we can't end the overpopulation of humans without affecting all other creatures. Panagopoulos' paper on shielding was excellent, and as usual he lays it out very clearly. I'd forgotten about the Wever experiments, which I recall learning about at school--anyone who wants to know about Schumann resonances really should read this paper. As you say, the only safety lies in distance; unfortunately that gets harder and harder with so many cell towers and Wi-Fi installations everywhere, and if you go anywhere near people most of them are engaged with some smart device or other. These days, I find going to town vaguely nightmarish. You meet friends, and they spend more time looking at their smartphones than talking to you--what's the point?

As for the chips and decals and other stick-ons that are supposed to make cell and smart phones "safe"...my friend with cancer has a decal, which doesn't seem to have done her any good. The lymph glands in her neck are now causing her great pain--and of course the smartphone has an antenna pointed directly at these glands and the thyroid. As for these chips, how are they supposed to work? I read the paper but this crucial point is not explained. The thing is, if people are sufficiently aware that wireless technology is dangerous, why do they think they can be protected by a sticker, a bracelet, a chip or anything else? Is this magical thinking?

And yet--they still want to make everything "smart". The products for babies really make me angry--smart cradles, smart diapers, baby monitors and then there are these tampon-like devices that irradiate the foetus while blasting music at it--I kid you not. See the following: https://www.insider.com/babypod-spea...s-music-2019-4

@ all A new Swiss study says that 5G will cause insect antennae to overheat: see https://www.androidpit.com/5g-overheats-insect-antennas
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Old Monday 20th May 2019, 14:35   #1620
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and if you go anywhere near people most of them are engaged with some smart device or other. These days, I find going to town vaguely nightmarish. You meet friends, and they spend more time looking at their smartphones than talking to you--what's the point?
I agree with you in this particular aspect. It's a disgrace. Soon we will be chatting through the phone instead to actually speaking to the person next to us.

Quote:
As for the chips and decals and other stick-ons that are supposed to make cell and smart phones "safe"...my friend with cancer has a decal, which doesn't seem to have done her any good. The lymph glands in her neck are now causing her great pain--and of course the smartphone has an antenna pointed directly at these glands and the thyroid. As for these chips, how are they supposed to work? I read the paper but this crucial point is not explained. The thing is, if people are sufficiently aware that wireless technology is dangerous, why do they think they can be protected by a sticker, a bracelet, a chip or anything else? Is this magical thinking?
Indeed, it's magical thinking, like that old practice of putting cacti close to a computer monitor when people were scared of them. I do have a Haworthia on my desk but just because I like it and it has homeopathic care requirements of course.

Actually those stickers are a double scam. A non-solution to a non-problem. But, unlike linguistics, a double negation doesn't become an affirmation. In this case I dare to say it becomes a squared negation. Stupidity multiplies, doesn't just add.

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@ all A new Swiss study says that 5G will cause insect antennae to overheat: see https://www.androidpit.com/5g-overheats-insect-antennas
I haven't seen insect antennas vaporizing around radars, curious. (hint: frequency >= 10 GHz). At least where I live it's almost routine to see large cargo ships sailing along the estuary a mere 300 m away from residential buildings. Needless to say the ships have the radars turned on.

I still wonder what's so wrong with a non existant technology such as 5G. Must be that the previously announced electromagnetic genocides didn't actually materialize and, well, this time the Next Big One™*is truly coming. Sigh.

By the way, the Swiss study makes me wonder. Should I install some 60 GHz equipment in my bedroom to rid myself of midges and clothing moths? Sounds tempting! Sadly, from my experience a room where I have radiation on 2.4, 5.8, 6 and 10 GHz has still had a moth problem. And I couldn't use insecticides because I had an aquarium inside. I had to resort to pheromone traps which are at most a best effort measure.

Sorry for the repeated editing: @Purple Heron, you are overlooking an important aspect of the Swiss study. They say that the frequencies below 6 GHz are harmless. So how does that match your previous claims of every "wireless communication" EMR radiation being harmful?

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Old Monday 20th May 2019, 16:35   #1621
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@ all A new Swiss study says that 5G will cause insect antennae to overheat: see https://www.androidpit.com/5g-overheats-insect-antennas
All I can find is reports referring to this study. Please could you supply the link? (or are you just reporting reports again?)

Peter
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Old Monday 20th May 2019, 19:57   #1622
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The Androidpit article has a link to what they claim is the source. However the Pronatura page linked to has no mention of 5G, it states "The main causes of the disappearance of insects are intensive agriculture, the massive use of pesticides as well as the destruction of Habitat. Light pollution and climate change are also significantly involved" (translation from the French).
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Old Monday 20th May 2019, 21:27   #1623
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With all these anecdotal "the birds are vanishing in droves" has anyone looked to see if they have switched to nocturnal habits?

What I mean is, birds in urban/suburban areas switch to doing some activities, like singing, to the night hours. It is thought this behavior change was so they could be heard better because of the urban din during the day.

Also some birds take-on regional habits. Everyone seems confused when I observed that I rarely see Starlings despite others local to me see them all the time, and I see one type of Red-Winged Blackbird where others see a different type and we both see different behaviors. I suspect both are influence by micro-habitats (parking lots vs. forest edges, marshes vs. housing developments, etc.)

But it doesn't take very much to force birds to change their habits when survival is at stake and habitats where people live are extremely varied at the house-to-house and block-to-block level. Heck, just showing-up during certain times of day make my local marshes look overflowing with birds or look like there isn't a bird for miles in the same spot.
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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 00:50   #1624
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..... Should I install some 60 GHz equipment in my bedroom to rid myself of midges and clothing moths? Sounds tempting!
What frequency will vaporize silverfish ?!
I swear those things will outlive time itself !




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Old Tuesday 21st May 2019, 01:22   #1625
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. . .Heck, just showing-up during certain times of day make my local marshes look overflowing with birds or look like there isn't a bird for miles in the same spot.
Are the marshes tidal?
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