Common re-branded Kamakura's? (1 Viewer)

justabirdwatcher · May 3, 2019

I'm a confessed binocular junkie and bargain-hunter. That's an awful combination!

Through the dozens, if not now hundreds of pairs of binoculars I've used, one of my all time favorites is a pair of Cabelas-branded Outfitter HD's that were made by the Kamakura factory. I've owned two of them now - a 10x42 and the 8x42s' I currently use. Both were fantastic. Since learning more about Kamakura, I realize they make a lot of well known binoculars for other brands.

Japanese optics have always worked very well for my eyes - in many cases better than many European glass and definitely better than almost any MIC glass I've seen to date. Not sure what it is about MIJ optics, but my eyes like them.

What I'm wondering are what are some other common re-branded Kamakura binoculars that I can keep an eye out for? I've read rumors that even the Zeiss Conquest HD - a binocular I hold in very high regard after owning 2 pairs - are made by Kamakura. That wouldn't surprise me considering how close they are to my Outfitter HD's and how well my eyes get along with them.

So who else did Kamakura make binoculars for and what are your favorite ones they made?

typo · May 3, 2019

Kamakura Koki, Light Optical and Kenko are probably the best known of the Japanese OEMs but there are others and it's rarely possible to be sure who makes which MIJ model, or indeed if just one company is responsible. Zeiss originally acknowledged that Kamakura played a major part in the manufacture of the Conquest HD, even though it carries the made in Germany label. It has been claimed that Kamakura have made models for the likes of Opticron, Kite, Minox, Bushnell, Leupold, Vortex, and Maven to name just a few from the west. However, I've also been assured that they make models for the likes of Nikon, Kowa and Fujinon as well, but perhaps they other OEMs do too? I might hazard a guess who made some of my favorite binoculars, but I rarely know for sure.

David

justabirdwatcher · May 3, 2019

It's kind of a shame we don't have a working list of who made what, since a lot of great binoculars die a lowly death in poorly marketed packaging despite being as good as optics people are willing to pay 5x as much for.

In some cases, you can see so many similarities that there is no question it's the same binocular in different armoring. Our Sightron Blue Sky II's are an example of this. There are no less than 2 other brands that sell the same binocular only with different armoring.

typo · May 3, 2019

We are pretty confident that both Pentax and Fujinon source similar models to the Sightron from the same Kenko factory in Cebu Philippines. Their Japanese factory is supposed to make a couple of well known high end models.

David

Bob A (SD) · May 12, 2019

For what its worth my 1st generation Leupold Gold Ring 9x35 IF porros (Model #52277 '83-'87) 5 element 3 group ep 2 element achromatic, MgFl coatings, were made by Kamakura Koki.

eronald · May 12, 2019

Leica Trinovid?

Edmund

ceasar · May 12, 2019

eronald said:
Leica Trinovid?

Edmund

I doubt it. Leica also has a plant in Portugal where my 8x42 Ultravid Blackline was made.

Bob

WJC · May 16, 2019

justabirdwatcher said:
I'm a confessed binocular junkie and bargain-hunter. That's an awful combination!

Through the dozens, if not now hundreds of pairs of binoculars I've used, one of my all time favorites is a pair of Cabelas-branded Outfitter HD's that were made by the Kamakura factory. I've owned two of them now - a 10x42 and the 8x42s' I currently use. Both were fantastic. Since learning more about Kamakura, I realize they make a lot of well known binoculars for other brands.

Japanese optics have always worked very well for my eyes - in many cases better than many European glass and definitely better than almost any MIC glass I've seen to date. Not sure what it is about MIJ optics, but my eyes like them.

What I'm wondering are what are some other common re-branded Kamakura binoculars that I can keep an eye out for? I've read rumors that even the Zeiss Conquest HD - a binocular I hold in very high regard after owning 2 pairs - are made by Kamakura. That wouldn't surprise me considering how close they are to my Outfitter HD's and how well my eyes get along with them.

So who else did Kamakura make binoculars for and what are your favorite ones they made?

190515

I would try to help. However, the list would take half a ream of paper. To get you started with some from my day: Some Swift’s, Some Fujinon’s, Some Minolta’s, Some Celestron’s, Some Meade’s, Some Konica’s, Some Alpen’s, Some Captain’s, Some Pentax, Some Bushnell’s, Some Kahles, Some TASCO’s ...

Do you see a pattern forming?

Also, as for Japanese binos working best for you, the country of origin matters not one whit. In general, Japanese instruments are—across the board—of higher quality. But the gap is closing, fast, and in some price ranges doesn’t exist. If you have the money, the Chinese have the product. Production is an Asian shell game—who’s making what ... this week?

The Fujinon AR, Swift Seahawk, and Bushnell Navigator are all the same—inside. Just as the Swift Storm King, Celestron Waterproof, and the Tamaya BIFR are all the same. And although today’s big sellers sport NEW names that cause people to swoon and make up stories about per-formance—the Asians love that—the same rules apply, as they have for decades.

Attached is a screenshot of a TINY, TINY portion of the binos for sale on the “Eagle Bait” auction site. Is there a pattern forming here? Five binos are listed, ALL of which just happen to be, drum roll, please ... VINTAGE!

Yes, vintage binoculars exit. But as used by MOST people on such sites, VINTAGE should be more appropriately used to mean OLD, JUNK, or OLD JUNK!

But as long as gullible people exist, there will always be integrity-challenged people, who are not conversant with the English language, around to relieve them of their surplus money.

Sa-cuse me, Lee, that one does really get me spun up. I’m going to take a cold shower, seek a local shrink, drown myself in a strawberry milkshake, and watch an uplifting movie.

And as Johnny Storm would say ... “flame off!” :cat:

Bill

justabirdwatcher · May 16, 2019

WJC said:
190515

I would try to help. However, the list would take half a ream of paper. To get you started with some from my day: Some Swift’s, Some Fujinon’s, Some Minolta’s, Some Celestron’s, Some Meade’s, Some Konica’s, Some Alpen’s, Some Captain’s, Some Pentax, Some Bushnell’s, Some Kahles, Some TASCO’s ...

Do you see a pattern forming?

Also, as for Japanese binos working best for you, the country of origin matters not one whit. In general, Japanese instruments are—across the board—of higher quality. But the gap is closing, fast, and in some price ranges doesn’t exist. If you have the money, the Chinese have the product. Production is an Asian shell game—who’s making what ... this week?

The Fujinon AR, Swift Seahawk, and Bushnell Navigator are all the same—inside. Just as the Swift Storm King, Celestron Waterproof, and the Tamaya BIFR are all the same. And although today’s big sellers sport NEW names that cause people to swoon and make up stories about per-formance—the Asians love that—the same rules apply, as they have for decades.

Attached is a screenshot of a TINY, TINY portion of the binos for sale on the “Eagle Bait” auction site. Is there a pattern forming here? Five binos are listed, ALL of which just happen to be, drum roll, please ... VINTAGE!

Yes, vintage binoculars exit. But as used by MOST people on such sites, VINTAGE should be more appropriately used to mean OLD, JUNK, or OLD JUNK!

But as long as gullible people exist, there will always be integrity-challenged people, who are not conversant with the English language, around to relieve them of their surplus money.

Sa-cuse me, Lee, that one does really get me spun up. I’m going to take a cold shower, seek a local shrink, drown myself in a strawberry milkshake, and watch an uplifting movie.

And as Johnny Storm would say ... “flame off!” :cat:

Bill

uuhhh

eronald · May 16, 2019

ceasar said:
I doubt it. Leica also has a plant in Portugal where my 8x42 Ultravid Blackline was made.

Bob

I hve no doubt you are stating the truth about your UV, I have one marked "made in Germany".

The current Trinovid 8x42 and 10x42 line is made in Japan, the product is so marked, and AFAIK it is Kamakura. Nice products btw, probably intentionally specced below the UV.

Edmund

ceasar · May 16, 2019

eronald said:
I hve no doubt you are stating the truth about your UV, I have one marked "made in Germany".

The current Trinovid 8x42 and 10x42 line is made in Japan, the product is so marked, and AFAIK it is Kamakura. Nice products btw, probably intentionally specced below the UV.

Edmund

Yes. That is correct. I believe Leica had 2 versions of their current Trinovid line.

My guess is that even Nikon's Monarch HG line is made by Kamakura.

Bob

Foss · May 16, 2019

Just to add a tidbit of information, I talked with a Kamakura assembly line worker (US plant in San Diego) recently who said they are only currently making Vortex spotting scopes, no binoculars.

I once had a US Military M-22 binocular labeled Fujinon on the prism cover, Northrop Grumman on the IPD scale, and Kama-Tech on the hinge cap. I assume it was assembled in San Diego to achieve certain country of origin specifications required by the military.

WJC · May 16, 2019

Foss said:
Just to add a tidbit of information, I talked with a Kamakura assembly line worker (US plant in San Diego) recently who said they are only currently making Vortex spotting scopes, no binoculars.

I once had a US Military M-22 binocular labeled Fujinon on the prism cover, Northrop Grumman on the IPD scale, and Kama-Tech on the hinge cap. I assume it was assembled in San Diego to achieve certain country of origin specifications required by the military.

The Fujinon AR — the particular label it was. The ARMY went to the AR after the Steiner Commander (one time M-22) failed.
Kama Tech — on US soil to get US government contracts
Northrop Grumman — the company it was made for

Possibly, the worker meant they weren't assembling BINOS of Vortex. They assemble too many binos to give up the whole of bino production.

Talk to Mark (Masaki). He might give you the straight skinny. :cat:

Bill

Foss · May 16, 2019

He said they're not currently assembling any binoculars in the San Diego plant.

WJC · May 17, 2019

Foss said:
He said they're not currently assembling any binoculars in the San Diego plant.

And I just came from CN where Cory showed Fujinon is moving away from the more sturdy eccentric method of collimation! Will BLUNDERS never cease?:cat:

Bill

Sebzwo · May 18, 2019

The current Trinovid 8x42 and 10x42 line is made in Japan, the product is so marked, and AFAIK it is Kamakura. Nice products btw, probably intentionally specced below the UV.

This is the first time I hear that Leica is said to build Trinovids at Kamakura. Could this be just a mixup with Zeiss, who get their (very nice) Conquest HDs from Kamakura?

Leica owns some factory in Portugal since tens of years and AFAIK this is where they can built very good quality both in-house but below german labor costs.

eronald · May 18, 2019

Sebzwo said:
This is the first time I hear that Leica is said to build Trinovids at Kamakura. Could this be just a mixup with Zeiss, who get their (very nice) Conquest HDs from Kamakura?

Leica owns some factory in Portugal since tens of years and AFAIK this is where they can built very good quality both in-house but below german labor costs.

You are quite right, Leica have had a very nice factory in Portugal for many years, and I believe they can make and repair binoculars there, which does not prevent the current Trinovid HD from being a Kamakura product, possibly "reassembled" in Portugal nowadays. There are also many "Leica" cameras that are rebranded Panasonic products.

I am certainly not the first person to bring this up, in fact Kamakura seem to be present across the binocular industry. This thread is relevant:
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=331376&page=3

Edmund

Sebzwo · May 18, 2019

Thanks. Interesting link.

Bit of a shock I have to say.
Maybe this is one reason why their 7x35 retro style binos didn't materialize? Like all the knowledge Leica once had in-house needed to be re-invented outside?

eronald · May 20, 2019

Sebzwo said:
Thanks. Interesting link.

Bit of a shock I have to say.
Maybe this is one reason why their 7x35 retro style binos didn't materialize? Like all the knowledge Leica once had in-house needed to be re-invented outside?

Seeing the relative production volumes of Leica and Kamakura, I wouldn't expect that Leica can teach Kamakura much about binocular design or production. On the other hand, maybe as you surmise Leica has trouble finding a subcontractor for the optical formula they desire to use if it happens to be a historical one with parts that are not common in the industry.

Edmund

ceasar · May 20, 2019

Kamakura may have knowledge equal to Leica but they aren't going to use it to make Leica a better binocular than Leica can make unless they get paid for it.

Kamakura will build the binocular you have designed at the price contracted.

Look at Nikon's Monarch HG and compare it with Nikon's original HG. The new versions sell for about the same price that the old versions did when they came out 20 years ago or so.

Compare the diopter setting mechanism on the right eye piece of both of them. They both work the same way but the one on the Monarch HG is not as well built or reliable as the the ones on the old HG series.

I know. I have both versions. I had to return my first Monarch HG because of a faulty diopter. Nikon sent me a new binocular which is working fine. But I have 2 early version HGLs that have been working fine for over 10 years.

On other matters; the locking mechanism on the new versions is not as precise and must be checked to verify it is locked and time will tell if their bodies are as durable.

Bob

Common re-branded Kamakura's? (1 Viewer)

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Attachments

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread