Recommendations for small alpha 10x32 (1 Viewer)

Patriot222 · May 23, 2019

SeldomPerched said:
I'm looking for a 10x32.
This purchase would be specifically for reading signposts at a distance, looking for stiles etc while out on self-navigating multi-terrain long distance runs. But I'm after alpha not just because they give me more pleasure but also as the glass would soon enough get bird & wildlife use too.

I realize 10x32 is not the finest spec for a bright view. Also that Leica are among the dinkiest / most compact which matters to me when out running, with the limited storage capacity that entails.

What do you think? (10x25 or smaller is not a route I want to take.)

Hi Tom, I'm a short distance runner and a long distance hiker out here in the desert Southwest of the US. I did, in the past carry 8x32FL or 10x32BN on some longer distance trails, depending on where I was going. If I was going to the top of a plateau to spend the day or an overnight, sometimes they were worth the extra bulk and weight because I might sit down at an observation point or move from point to point within the same general area. These days, I carry a Canon 10x30IS II because I find that the benefit of a relatively good but still image, is more valuable to me than a near perfect image that's shaking around, made more difficult by elevated respiratory and heart rate as I'm hiking high altitude peaks or just moving briskly on flat ground.

In the case of same day, mileage hikes, were I may still want an optic to see trail signs, marker cairns, or to ID man-made structures or areas containing water, I found that my 10x25LX or 8x25CL made a huge difference in my willingness to pull out the optic and use it for brief looks. See, I used to keep the 32mm glass inside of the main body of a lightweight hydration pack because I couldn't comfortably carry them over distance any other way. With the 25mm glass, I can keep them in a front strap pocket or on the stretchy side pockets of my pack. I use them for those quick, specific looks and if I do stop for an extended break or to have a lunch, the 25mm format doesn't detract for me at all unless it's early light or the sun is setting. I will however miss the stabilization of the 10x32IS II but the 25mm is half the weight and bulk and more accessible.

With weight being so critical to comfort and distance, going to the 25mm has been one of the most liberating equipment changes that I've made in the last few years along with going to a lighter day pack. The best part, I don't feel like I've had to give anything up. With the Zeiss Victory 25's coming it at under 11oz I'm probably going to replace my 8x25CL at some point.

In any case, I respect your desire for a 32mm for the purposes you described but since I've been down that road and it wasn't ideal for me, I wanted to share my experiences.

mwhogue · May 24, 2019

Patriot,
Nice post. I too sometimes prefer my Canon IS 12x36 III and sacrifice a little optical quality for a stabilized image. On other topics you mention, sounds like you pay a lot of attention to your gear and real world use. If you haven't already (but my guess is you have) a harness as opposed to a strap is a real plus for hiking even with 8x25 compacts - no swing or dangle, no fetching out of a pocket to look, etc. For heavier bins, the S4 Gear Lockdown X harness is the closest thing to an anti gravity device. Last year I used the Lockdown to carry Leica 10x50 UV+ up to the south rim of Big Bend NP and literally never noticed the weight. It may work better for certain body types though. Finally, while opinions/preferences differ, as you have discovered the benefits of a good 8x25, do try the Zeiss Pocket. I like the CL as well but much prefer the wider FOV and handling of the Zeiss.

Patriot222 · May 26, 2019

Thanks mw. I am a bit of a gear enthusiast and about the only thing that I don't weigh carefully, before it goes into my pack is water...haha. It's not uncommon that I'll do a day hike with 4-5lbs of gear & snacks but have 10-12lbs of water, simply because I don't have the choice but to carry it.

Great recommendations on the harnesses! I've been using the camo S4 Lockdown since sometime in 2016. I use it for archery hunting and 3D courses mostly. While hiking with the 25mm bins, I've been using the RYO Ultra-Light Bino Harness and it holds them in place really well. With that stated, I still usually keep them in my hydration pack but accessible, not putting on the harness until I'm at my stop, destination or area of exploration.

All of the Canon IS binoculars are unbelievable in actual use. Besides the 10x30II, I'm on my second 10x42WP, and recently purchased the new 12x32. Many binocular enthusiasts have little understanding of just how much detail can be seen while hand held. Standing on the porch, I can hand my brother a 10x42EL and my Uncle (with older eyes) the 10x30II and ask both of them to count the rivets on the upper left arm of a power line tower at 150 yards and my brother strains a guess while my Uncle calls out "eight!" My brother says, "let me try those" and within seconds says, "I can't believe the difference that makes!" For the folks who are proud of how "steady" they can hold, I just pick out a smaller target and run the same experiment. I've even done it with a table full of optics in our hunting camp and included a mix of 8x's, 10x's, 12x Ultravid and a 15X SLC HD. Most of these people also have their own, very good binoculars but no one ever sees more detail with non-stabilized optics, while going up against the 10x30II or 10x42WP. They start cheating by squatting down or leaning against things, which prompts a lot of crap talk and guy banter, haha! Next time we do this, hopefully this summer, I'll have to take a video of the challenge and post a link here. The 12x's Canons of course do even better at bringing out small details and your 12x36III is fantastic at its price point! I can see why you would choose carry it at times!

SeldomPerched · May 28, 2019

Patriot222 said:
Hi Tom, I'm a short distance runner and a long distance hiker out here in the desert Southwest of the US. I did, in the past carry 8x32FL or 10x32BN on some longer distance trails, depending on where I was going. If I was going to the top of a plateau to spend the day or an overnight, sometimes they were worth the extra bulk and weight because I might sit down at an observation point or move from point to point within the same general area. These days, I carry a Canon 10x30IS II because I find that the benefit of a relatively good but still image, is more valuable to me than a near perfect image that's shaking around, made more difficult by elevated respiratory and heart rate as I'm hiking high altitude peaks or just moving briskly on flat ground.

In the case of same day, mileage hikes, were I may still want an optic to see trail signs, marker cairns, or to ID man-made structures or areas containing water, I found that my 10x25LX or 8x25CL made a huge difference in my willingness to pull out the optic and use it for brief looks. See, I used to keep the 32mm glass inside of the main body of a lightweight hydration pack because I couldn't comfortably carry them over distance any other way. With the 25mm glass, I can keep them in a front strap pocket or on the stretchy side pockets of my pack. I use them for those quick, specific looks and if I do stop for an extended break or to have a lunch, the 25mm format doesn't detract for me at all unless it's early light or the sun is setting. I will however miss the stabilization of the 10x32IS II but the 25mm is half the weight and bulk and more accessible.

With weight being so critical to comfort and distance, going to the 25mm has been one of the most liberating equipment changes that I've made in the last few years along with going to a lighter day pack. The best part, I don't feel like I've had to give anything up. With the Zeiss Victory 25's coming it at under 11oz I'm probably going to replace my 8x25CL at some point.

In any case, I respect your desire for a 32mm for the purposes you described but since I've been down that road and it wasn't ideal for me, I wanted to share my experiences.

Hi Patriot,

What you say makes good sense and I find myself veering away from the 10x32 idea now. By the way, sorry it's taken me a while to catch up on the latest posts and write a reply. The other day I was on the hoof myself on a 20+ mile hike rather than running and quite a few times I thought how if I had binos with me they would have to be my old compact Trinovid 8x20 (away for a service after a pretty sheltered life since bought new in 1993). This for the same reasons you give - anything bigger wdn't fit in the front of my UD (Ultimate Direction) light-weight harness / day pack, and I hate having to come to a standstill to adjust kit, take out from the back, reclose etc unless it's strictly needed. So better to have something small that will at least get some use rather than something I decide to leave behind, which is exactly what I did on my recent hike - I decided even my 8x32 FL were too big to be suitable.

The idea of lower optical quality with IS is a great one too. I think for now as there have been a lot of binocular purchases recently - bigger glass unsuitable for this purpose but great for nature observation I will stick with what I have and put that Trinny to use. I had thought for a time it was just now what I used to think because I had got used to big glass quality; then I realized the collimation was out - no idea how it came about - and a £40 service by a Leica and Zeiss-trained technician has put it right, so when I collect they should be just great. An 8x25 wd probably be better or a 10x25 but first I'll see if I do OK with the 8x20BCA I have, now that the optics are back in order.

Thanks for your ideas; they get my vote!

Tom

SeldomPerched · May 28, 2019

Patriot222 said:
Thanks mw. I am a bit of a gear enthusiast and about the only thing that I don't weigh carefully, before it goes into my pack is water...haha. It's not uncommon that I'll do a day hike with 4-5lbs of gear & snacks but have 10-12lbs of water, simply because I don't have the choice but to carry it.

Great recommendations on the harnesses! I've been using the camo S4 Lockdown since sometime in 2016. I use it for archery hunting and 3D courses mostly. While hiking with the 25mm bins, I've been using the RYO Ultra-Light Bino Harness and it holds them in place really well. With that stated, I still usually keep them in my hydration pack but accessible, not putting on the harness until I'm at my stop, destination or area of exploration.

All of the Canon IS binoculars are unbelievable in actual use. Besides the 10x30II, I'm on my second 10x42WP, and recently purchased the new 12x32. Many binocular enthusiasts have little understanding of just how much detail can be seen while hand held. Standing on the porch, I can hand my brother a 10x42EL and my Uncle (with older eyes) the 10x30II and ask both of them to count the rivets on the upper left arm of a power line tower at 150 yards and my brother strains a guess while my Uncle calls out "eight!" My brother says, "let me try those" and within seconds says, "I can't believe the difference that makes!" For the folks who are proud of how "steady" they can hold, I just pick out a smaller target and run the same experiment. I've even done it with a table full of optics in our hunting camp and included a mix of 8x's, 10x's, 12x Ultravid and a 15X SLC HD. Most of these people also have their own, very good binoculars but no one ever sees more detail with non-stabilized optics, while going up against the 10x30II or 10x42WP. They start cheating by squatting down or leaning against things, which prompts a lot of crap talk and guy banter, haha! Next time we do this, hopefully this summer, I'll have to take a video of the challenge and post a link here. The 12x's Canons of course do even better at bringing out small details and your 12x36III is fantastic at its price point! I can see why you would choose carry it at times!

Following this with great interest....
Tom

SeldomPerched · May 28, 2019

tenex said:
You may notice in the passage you just quoted that I said more to do, not all. Obviously there is some sort of practical limit to magnification at some point. But an amazing amount of what we call vision actually happens in the brain, and I do tire of pontification on what magnification can possibly be handheld, without taking learning into account or allowing time for it.

...Back to the topic at hand, if wider use than signpost-reading is eventually anticipated, a fuller-sized 32mm glass will be much more pleasant for use without eyeglasses than a compact.

Thank you.

Tom

John A Roberts · May 29, 2019

Patriot, MW and Seldom

A couple of suggestions for keeping binos readily accessible, while minimising the perceived weight . . .

A) For x20’s and x25’s, a pouch attached to the shoulder strap of a lightweight hydration or day pack is a possibility
(for safety if dropped, I combine it with a very thin strap long enough to wear around the neck, while the bino is in the pouch)

B) For the larger and heavier x30/x32’s, the Crooked Horn Bino Shield may be an option (see my recent post here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3849976&postcount=10 )

I usually adjust a neck strap so that it is not much longer than necessary to place over my head
This places the bino (and the Bino Shield) at chest level verses the lower level in the Crooked Horn image
And this enables adjusting the Bino Shield so that it’s strap supports most of the weight

The Bino Shield avoids the complication and inconvenience of an X harness (either attached to a bino or a chest carrier), especially when used in conjunction with a pack and it’s harness
It also avoids the inconvenience of an X harness where the weather is such that you have to add/remove clothing

For the FL x32 or the Canon IS x30, you really need the small version of the Bino Shield, which is now a scarce item
Googling around, one possible source is Schnee’s (see: https://schnees.com/bino-shield/ )

For the Canon IS x32 or x36, the medium size is probably going to be necessary to accomodate their additional length
(the medium size is particularly adaptable, working well for both x40/42 roofs and Porros, and also my EL 12x50’s)

. . . a lot of these sort of choices come down to personal preference, but hopefully some food for thought

John

mwhogue · May 29, 2019

John A Roberts said:
Patriot, MW and Seldom

A couple of suggestions for keeping binos readily accessible, while minimising the perceived weight . . .

B) For the larger and heavier x30/x32’s, the Crooked Horn Bino Shield may be an option (see my recent post here: https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3849976&postcount=10 )

I usually adjust a neck strap so that it is not much longer than necessary to place over my head
This places the bino (and the Bino Shield) at chest level verses the lower level in the Crooked Horn image
And this enables adjusting the Bino Shield so that it’s strap supports most of the weight

The Bino Shield avoids the complication and inconvenience of an X harness (either attached to a bino or a chest carrier), especially when used in conjunction with a pack and it’s harness
It also avoids the inconvenience of an X harness where the weather is such that you have to add/remove clothing

For the FL x32 or the Canon IS x30, you really need the small version of the Bino Shield, which is now a scarce item
Googling around, one possible source is Schnee’s (see: https://schnees.com/bino-shield/

. . . a lot of these sort of choices come down to personal preference, but hopefully some food for thought

John

John,

Great information as always. The Bino Shield looks like good, versatile kit. Like you I prefer to carry high whether strap or harness. I'll start experimenting with shortening straps even more in accordance with your suggestions. On a related note, I did ask for you opinion on what size Bino Shield to best fit the Nikon E II 8x30 on the other recent post of yours referred to above. Thanks.

Mike

John A Roberts · May 29, 2019

Hi Mike

The problem is that the listed sizings on the Crooked Horn page (see the image) are not at all clear when in comes to actual use

For instance, the Medium is listed as 7" h x 6" w - but it actually measures 8" h x 8" w across the front panel
(I’ve measured 2, and the dimensions are the same)
The Medium:
- will easily accommodate the width of a Nikon E 12x40 Porro - 5 1/2” h x 7” wide;
- but is nearly at it's height limit with an EL 12x50 roof prism - 7 1/4" h x 5 1/4" w (the added depth of the x50 body is taking up extra volume)

The Nikon EII 8x30 measures around 4 1/4" h x 6 1/2" w
So it will easily fit in the Medium, but that leaves a 3” gap at the top, which is . . . ‘inelegant’
(and although there’s a draw string/ lock on the rear, it doesn’t make any difference to the unused top section)

- - -
So the question is: ‘Will the Small - listed at 5” x 5” - be big enough for the EII?’ 
The only image I’ve seen is one from the Crooked Horn catalogue with a x32 Leica BA/BN
Since the Leica is around 4 1/2” wide, it looks like the 6 1/2” w EII will fit - but I’m not certain
If it does, it would be a far neater solution for the 8x30 EII than the Medium

John

p.s. in contrast to the possibility that the Small may not be wide enough for the EII, excess width is not a problem
- the strap around the body holds any unused material flat against the torso
so the Medium works well with the different shapes of the Nikon 12x40 Porro and the EL 12x50 roof (along with x40/42 roof prisms)

mwhogue · May 30, 2019

John A Roberts said:
Hi Mike

The Nikon EII 8x30 measures around 4 1/4" h x 6 1/2" w
So it will easily fit in the Medium, but that leaves a 3” gap at the top, which is . . . ‘inelegant’
(and although there’s a draw string/ lock on the rear, it doesn’t make any difference to the unused top section)

- - -
So the question is: ‘Will the Small - listed at 5” x 5” - be big enough for the EII?’ 
The only image I’ve seen is one from the Crooked Horn catalogue with a x32 Leica BA/BN
Since the Leica is around 4 1/2” wide, it looks like the 6 1/2” w EII will fit - but I’m not certain
If it does, it would be a far neater solution for the 8x30 EII than the Medium

John

p.s. in contrast to the possibility that the Small may not be wide enough for the EII, excess width is not a problem
- the strap around the body holds any unused material flat against the torso
so the Medium works well with the different shapes of the Nikon 12x40 Porro and the EL 12x50 roof (along with x40/42 roof prisms)

John

Thanks for the detailed follow up. My small Bino Shield is on the way. I will test it with the E II and various other smaller 32 bins with both straps and harnesses and report.

Mike

John A Roberts · Jun 4, 2019

Small size Bino Shield for x30 Porros

Mike replied on another thread as to his success with the Small size:

mwhogue said:
. . . The small size fits both the E II 8x30 and the Habicht 6x30 very well. The slack in height is neither an inconvenience nor inelegant . . .

As it fits the EII 8x30, it will also fit among others:
- both Nikon's earlier E 8x30 and E 7x35
- and also Nikon's SE 8x32

John

mwhogue · Jun 16, 2019

John,

Thanks again for rec on this excellent versatile accessory.

As the Bino Shield is primarily designed for roofs, the small size fits the 10x32 roof in Zeiss, SV, UV, and EDG very well. If accessorizing the EDG specifically, the medium would also work as EDG is the largest of the 4 and it would be more versatile for use with larger binoculars as well.

Mike

Grando · Jun 16, 2019

I don't suppose anyone has any experience of the Leica 10x32 Trinovid HDs, as their close focus is something that would tempt me for insect watching too...

Troubador · Jun 17, 2019

Grando
We do not have experience of the 10x32 but both me and my Mrs bought Trinovid HD 8x32s precisely because of their ultra-close focus. We use them for all kinds of nature viewing: rock pools next to the sea (where we are right now), surveying sensitive habitat for flowers, and of course insects and many other purposes. When we head out intending to do any of these kinds of observing we grab the Trinnies.

Lee

Grando · Jun 17, 2019

Thanks Lee. I am going to have to go and look through a pair when I get the chance!

eronald · Jun 17, 2019

My advice to the OP nowadays would be to get a Nikon Mikron 6x or 7xx15 - the smallest decent binocular available

Edmund

Recommendations for small alpha 10x32 (1 Viewer)

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