Top Bins v the mid range (1 Viewer)

pduxon · Aug 10, 2004

If you read BF and you are on a limited budget you would get the feeling that unless you are in the market for Zeiss FLs (let all genuflect), Leica Ultravids (I am not worthy), Swaro ELs and Nikon HGs you shouldn't bother because these are SSSSSOOOOO far better than anything else (ok Nikon SE fans be quiet!!) its not worth bothering buying.

Indeed ask for a recommendation and your thread will get one or two replies. Ask for a top end bin and the world and his dog jumps in

I thought Captain Viallo's comment was interesting when he said that if it wasn't for snob value he would sell his Leica Trinovids and buy the Helios AM6's and pocket £400.

Would it be fair to say the that the differences you lot are discussing on that Zeiss FL are at best fairly small ? I suspect most folks wouldn't notice them in the field.

Would it also be fair that if we are talking pure value for money here Bins like the Opticron Verano's, RSPB, Bushnell Legends, etc and the in-store brands from in-focus and Ace represent much better value for money. Unless you really really want that extra fraction of performance or you are a snob or have more money than sense (looks down at feet and whistles knowingly

) the above are really the sensible choices.

Ok as someone who uses "top" equipment I know that in really bad light they do help. But the point I'm making in a long winded round about sort of way is that if you can't afford the "top" bins don't worry about it. The quality in the £200-£400 market is now so good that in 95% of situations you won't notice any difference.

Anyone care to tell me I'm barking mad?

devon.birder · Aug 10, 2004

I think you could be right Pete. I bought my wife a pair of In Focus Delta bins for her birthday a couple of years ago at a cost of £400 and they are excellent. They are light, the image is bright and they focus much closer than my Zeiss 8x56. I often use them to look at Butterflies. I changed my Swaro scope a few months ago and bought the new Swaro and I will change my bins next year. Will I buy a pair of Deltas?. No I will probably buy a pair of Swaro ELs.

Andrew Whitehouse · Aug 10, 2004

Well said Pete. I don't have much opportunity to try others bins, leading a lonely sheltered life as I do, but I've compared my Opticron 8x42 BGAs against Leicas (older ones, not the Ultravids) and haven't felt I was missing out. I've one or two minor grumbles about the design but these are very minor. Otherwise they are clear, bright, detailed, wide field of view, close focusing, waterproof. They really aren't lacking in anything practical that a birder could want. And just 300 notes from Warehouse Express too (at least for the old models).

digi-birder · Aug 10, 2004

pduxon said:
Anyone care to tell me I'm barking mad?

Oh! Go on then - you're barking mad!

digi-birder · Aug 10, 2004

But, on a serious note, in some respects you're correct.

As you know, I changed from Opticron bins to Nikon HGs not so long ago. Not for the snob value (if Nikons have one!), but because my eyesight has deteriorated slightly and I was finding that the Opticrons were not giving me a clear image. Whether that was due to a fault with the bins, I don't know.

When I bought the Opticrons, though, I tested them alongside Swarovskis and Leicas and at the time I could not see that paying the extra was worth it. When I was buying the Nikons, I tried some Swarovskis again, and still couldn't justify paying the extra.

I think that whatever budget you have, you need to try a few and see which suit your eyes, as we have said here many time before. Then get the best you can afford.

hornet · Aug 10, 2004

I recently checked out the high-end RSPB 8x32s for my girlfriend, and to be honest they left me wondering why I'd shelled out so much for my Leicas.

They were clear, sharp, lightweight and felt good in the hand. I can't speak for other mid-range bins, but IMHO there is no doubt the RSPB ones make the latest Zeiss, Leica or Swarovski look horribly overpriced.

Sadly, I'm a serious sufferer of BTS (Boy's Toys Syndrome). Which means I'll be heading straight for the 8x32 Leica Ultravids at Birdfair. :bounce:

digi-birder · Aug 10, 2004

hornet said:
Sadly, I'm a serious sufferer of BTS (Boy's Toys Syndrome). Which means I'll be heading straight for the 8x32 Leica Ultravids at Birdfair. :bounce:

Well make sure you test them first. My other half was keen to get the Ultravids, but when he finally tried them, he preferred the Leica BNs. They suited his eyes better and felt more comfortable to hold.

hornet · Aug 10, 2004

digi-birder said:
Well make sure you test them first. My other half was keen to get the Ultravids, but when he finally tried them, he preferred the Leica BNs. They suited his eyes better and felt more comfortable to hold.

Thanks for the tip. I should be in a good position to compare - my current bins are the 8x32 BNs.

That's how bad my BTS is - I'm actually considering spending the best part of £1,000 to change a nearly new pair of Leica 8x32s for a new pair of Leica 8x32s (albeit a different model)! :h?:

I know what you mean about comfort on the larger Ultravids though - I can't get on with the side ridges. I'm hoping they'll have done away with them on the 8x32s. Or maybe, to get back on thread, I should just kick the habit and take another look at those RSPB bins...

digi-birder · Aug 10, 2004

Well, whatever you decide, don't forget to pop along to the BF stand and show us your new toy!

gusford · Aug 10, 2004

hornet said:
Thanks for the tip. I should be in a good position to compare - my current bins are the 8x32 BNs.

That's how bad my BTS is - I'm actually considering spending the best part of £1,000 to change a nearly new pair of Leica 8x32s for a new pair of Leica 8x32s (albeit a different model)! :h?:

I know what you mean about comfort on the larger Ultravids though - I can't get on with the side ridges. I'm hoping they'll have done away with them on the 8x32s. Or maybe, to get back on thread, I should just kick the habit and take another look at those RSPB bins...

I'd never spend anywhere near a grand on binocs - I'm with my 5 year old Minoltas (about £190) - a bit grubby, a bit scratched etc but OK for me. I would spend top end money on a scope though - eg I have a Zeiss 65 but will upgrade in about 3 years to an 85mm (or similar).

hornet · Aug 10, 2004

digi-birder said:
Well, whatever you decide, don't forget to pop along to the BF stand and show us your new toy!

I'll certainly pop by - with so many members now, it should be one of the busiest at the fair.

If the therapy works out, I'll be sans-Ultravid. If you see a bloke with 8x32BNs, and a hungry, haunted look, you'll know I'm still fighting those inner demons! :eek!:

Pinewood · Aug 10, 2004

What about spending the same money, that a mid range would cost, on a used binocular? I often step out, on a clear day, with an old Leitz 8x30 Binuxit. It cost me US$165, about 92 quid, and did not require any work. It has a wide, sharp FOV and an acceptably bright image. It does not match the light transmission of a Nikon SE, as it lacks multicoating, but it works very well indeed. On the other hand, it has no blackout problems and enough diopter range, so I can take my specs off. It certainly lacks eye relief!
However, regarding BTS and snob appeal, when I met a group of bird watchers, packing Swarovskis and Leicas,I got the feeling that they regarded me as beyond the pale, using a fifty year old Porro glass. I thought that I was superiour in that I had classical panache.
At work, I met an electrician, who liked to watch birds, who used a Pentax glass. For some reason, I had one of those Swarovski Optik patches, with a raptor embroidered on it. I gave it to her, with the advice that after she sewed it to her cap or jacket, if other bird watchers looked with disdain at her Pentax, she should just say that her Swarovski was in the shop for repairs.
There is no doubt that a waterproof binocular with a 42mm objective from Zeiss, Leica or Nikon is superiour to my old Leitz, but is it worth it for everyone, on all occasions?

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood

Buster · Aug 10, 2004

I agree with Pinewood. I don't see any reason for person to spend $1000.00 or more on binoculars when there are so many deals to be had in the used and refurbished markets. The trick to buying used binoculars is to have cash on hand so you can act quickly when the deals come up.

If anyone is in the market, www.Ewins.com is selling "refurbished" Nikon (HG) Venturer/LX's and SE's at less than half of retail. I recently purchased a 10x42 Venturer/LX for $450.00 USD shipped. They carry a 90 warranty, afterwhich they are backed by Nikon's "No fault forever" warranty, which allows to you to return them to Nikon for repair or replacement, no questions asked, at a cost of $10.00 plus return shipping.

postcardcv · Aug 10, 2004

Personally I agree that for value the mid price bins win out - I have always been a big fan of Opticron kit and my wife 8X32 RSPB's are excellent - until about a year ago I was using RSPB 8x42 HG and was very happy with them. Then I got the chance to upgrade as part payment for some work I'd done, so started looking through all the top end bins - I ended up going for a used duovids and am delighted with them. I'd certainly recommend looking at secondhand optics whatever price range you are looking at.

Gregorius · Aug 11, 2004

pduxon said:
Would it also be fair that if we are talking pure value for money here Bins like the Opticron Verano's, RSPB, Bushnell Legends, etc and the in-store brands from in-focus and Ace represent much better value for money. Unless you really really want that extra fraction of performance or you are a snob or have more money than sense (looks down at feet and whistles knowingly ) the above are really the sensible choices.

I finally replaced my Tasco kit :eek!: this year with pair of Opticron Veranos after having sampled all the price ranges. While I was trying things out, my mid-forties eyesight was able to tell that, for example, a pair of ELs was better than the Veranos but at around a third the price, value for money did kick in! However, having lived with the Veranos for a few months, the very fact that they are so good has made me use them more which has made me more aware of their limitations! (chromatic aberration, curvature of field...)

Thankfully, they've become so popular in the household that we "need" another pair! This time I will take a closer look at the value for money of the more expensive bins...

When I was buying the Veranos, I had a look at a pair of DBAs and liked them apart from the CA (which is why I didn't buy them). Opticron are now launching a new ("Oasis") version of the DBAs and I'm intrigued by a reviewer comment on their site that suggests that the CA problem has been dealt with. Any one had a chance to look down these new DBAs?

pduxon · Aug 11, 2004

Gregorius said:
I finally replaced my Tasco kit :eek!: this year with pair of Opticron Veranos after having sampled all the price ranges. While I was trying things out, my mid-forties eyesight was able to tell that, for example, a pair of ELs was better than the Veranos but at around a third the price, value for money did kick in! However, having lived with the Veranos for a few months, the very fact that they are so good has made me use them more which has made me more aware of their limitations! (chromatic aberration, curvature of field...)

Thankfully, they've become so popular in the household that we "need" another pair! This time I will take a closer look at the value for money of the more expensive bins...

When I was buying the Veranos, I had a look at a pair of DBAs and liked them apart from the CA (which is why I didn't buy them). Opticron are now launching a new ("Oasis") version of the DBAs and I'm intrigued by a reviewer comment on their site that suggests that the CA problem has been dealt with. Any one had a chance to look down these new DBAs?

welcome to the forum Gregorius.

Have to say I've never noticed CA when looking through the existing DBA's but then again I never try and look for it in any bin. If you go to birdfair they'll be there.

Gregorius · Aug 11, 2004

pduxon said:
welcome to the forum Gregorius.

Have to say I've never noticed CA when looking through the existing DBA's but then again I never try and look for it in any bin. If you go to birdfair they'll be there.

Ta! Well I've just moved to the North-East coast, so lots of the birds get seen against the sort of bright grey (and occasionally bright blue) background that shows up CA!

Dave B Smith · Aug 11, 2004

Boy, after reading the posts on this thread, I'm not sure I should even comment. My wife and I shared a $50 pair of Nikon Sprints (compacts) for about 8 years and just recently I got a pair of Bushnells as a gift ($80) and bought her a Nikon Monarch ($250). I'll have to admit that there is quite an improvement in the view from her Nikon than I get in my Bushnell and I'm planning to upgrade next year but it will be in the $300 range, not the £1,000 range. (and I'll spend the difference on a birding trip

)

pduxon · Aug 11, 2004

Dave B Smith said:
Boy, after reading the posts on this thread, I'm not sure I should even comment. My wife and I shared a $50 pair of Nikon Sprints (compacts) for about 8 years and just recently I got a pair of Bushnells as a gift ($80) and bought her a Nikon Monarch ($250). I'll have to admit that there is quite an improvement in the view from her Nikon than I get in my Bushnell and I'm planning to upgrade next year but it will be in the $300 range, not the £1,000 range. (and I'll spend the difference on a birding trip )

Dave

why shouldn't you comment ?? There are a lot of good $300 bins over there!!

to be honest spending the money on the trip will probably be the better option - with a report on BF of course!!

Andrew · Aug 11, 2004

I went for Bushnell Legends 8x32s and have had no qualms about it for two years. I like them very much. I must admit when I picked up some Swaros that I was amazed at the quality offered by top price bins but they were not enough to convince me that spending an extra £700 was worth it. After all I can see the bird just as much as the man with the Swaros.

I have a friend with Swaros and he often thanks me for finding birds with my Bushnells! So it's not the bins that make you a better birder!

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