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Vortex Viper UHD beats Zeiss SF and Leica Noctivid!

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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 17:06   #76
giosblue
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Thanks for your reply, indicating no history of warranty with any of the recognised Alpha brands meaning your post # 65 has little or no merit in relation to comparisson with other makes. Really no need for your unnecessary sarcasm in the last paragraph of your post - I was and am still being civil.

P

I'm sorry but you seem to have some difficulty with my posts.

Just to be clear.
Let me try again post 65 made crystal clear that I have no history of warranty with ANY OPTICS manufacture. Alpha or otherwise.

This is what I said and I stand by what I said 100%

"I think it's fair to say whatever the Vortex warranty, it's as good, or better than anything else on the market"


Who has a better warranty than this.

UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
FULLY TRANSFERABLE
NO RECEIPT NEEDED

Please enlighten me me. I must be missing something.
I usually am

Oh and I know the end caps only cost pennies and that they are cosmetic, I don't need you to tell me that. Nevertheless, I wanted them and Vortex provided them, quickly and free of charge.

I don't normally get involved in online spats, I don't have the time.
But There seems to be a real snobbery element from some members who look down on anything they perceive in not to be "Alpha"
I read the post from the guy who sent his new Swarovski bins back to Swarovski and what a disaster that was.
So although I have no personal history a "alpha brand warranty" I have read a post on these forums from someone who has and that was nothing short off appalling service. And this was a pair of brand new bins.

Last edited by giosblue : Sunday 26th January 2020 at 17:34.
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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 17:20   #77
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In my experience Vortex does have some of the best Customer Service around. They are very personal and responsive when you need something or have problems. I must say I can't complain about Swarovski either though! I bought a Vortex Razor HD 10x42 and the diopter was funky and I returned it too the dealer and got a refund but I emailed Vortex and told them about it and they sent me a free pair of Vortex Razor HD 10x42 binoculars no charge. No I wonder who else would do that! Not even Swarovski would!
I’m impressed by Vortex’s service. I bought a used Razor 65 scope (old model) which had a ratchets focus wheel. Vortex arranged for me to send it to them (at no cost to me) and pick up a brand new version (still old model) from my local dealer.

So I got a new scope for old.

Couldn’t reasonably ask for more.
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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 17:25   #78
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OK, let's tune in on this one.
By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.
Let's take the current situation with Leathermen Tools. Always sold with 25 years warranty conditions like Vortex but since 2019 the replacement parts have stopped. If you break a part of the tool, buy a new one. Breaking is suddenly no longer a warranty. The reason behind it (so I was told by the Leathermen rep) is that the costs for replacements have become to high and Leathermen USA has stopped delivering spare parts to their reps worldwide.

Who gets the shit? The dealer that sold the tools under that warranty and has to refund the complainer. The rep points at the manufacturer., so a civil persuit is the only way left.........Yeah sure.

Let's face it. It is commercially impossible to give a unlimited lifetime warranty and survive on the long run and raving talks like we read here don't help.
Just my 2c

Jan
By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.

Not strictly correct, the consumers first port of call and should be only port of call is with the retailer who sold the goods. That is correct, the consumer should have no need to contact the manufacturer, ever.

The manufacturer warranties the goods and it is the manufacturer of the goods that warranties them to the retailer.
Ultimately the manufacturer must take responsibility because they are the ones who are in a position to rectify any problems.
If there are any problems the retailer should take it up with their supplier.

UK law is, up six months, you are entitled to a replacement after that there is provision for them to be sent away for inspection.

Nothing to with my posts, but there you go,

Last edited by giosblue : Sunday 26th January 2020 at 17:35.
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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 18:30   #79
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By EU law, the seller is responsible for the warranty. NOT THE MANUFACTURER.

Not strictly correct, the consumers first port of call and should be only port of call is with the retailer who sold the goods. That is correct, the consumer should have no need to contact the manufacturer, ever.

The manufacturer warranties the goods and it is the manufacturer of the goods that warranties them to the retailer.
Ultimately the manufacturer must take responsibility because they are the ones who are in a position to rectify any problems.
If there are any problems the retailer should take it up with their supplier.

UK law is, up six months, you are entitled to a replacement after that there is provision for them to be sent away for inspection.

Nothing to with my posts, but there you go,
I think we mean the same thing.
The customer deals with the retailer and the retailer deals with the customer.
The retailer deals with the manufacturer or its representative.
The customer has no dealing with the manufacturer but when the manufacturer does not follows its warranty obligations because on the long run the costs are getting to high....
That's my point.

Jan
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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 20:06   #80
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I think we mean the same thing.
The customer deals with the retailer and the retailer deals with the customer.
The retailer deals with the manufacturer or its representative.
The customer has no dealing with the manufacturer but when the manufacturer does not follows its warranty obligations because on the long run the costs are getting to high....
That's my point.

Jan

That's correct, your contract as a customer is with the retailer who sold you the product. no one else.
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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 23:36   #81
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That's correct, your contract as a customer is with the retailer who sold you the product. no one else.
Hi,

in europe there's two different things:

- legal warranty of two years, although after 6 months the customer has to prove that the item was faulty at the time of sale - which might prove difficult. This is indeed always a matter between the seller and the customer. The seller can later try to get reimbursed by the manufacturer...

- manufacturer warranty - this is always a voluntary thing offered by the manufacturer and he can set the rules - be it to talk only to the seller or not at all. Or only applicable if the item broke during full moon. Whatever...
The only thing that is not allowed is a lifetime warranty, as this was ruled to be misleading as a company cannot actually provide a warranty beyond its bankruptcy (or would have to actually buy insurance for each item under warranty).

Joachim
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Old Sunday 26th January 2020, 23:37   #82
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"Let's face it. It is commercially impossible to give a unlimited lifetime warranty and survive on the long run and raving talks like we read here don't help.
Just my 2c"

I don't know Vortex does pretty good in the US. I believe they are one of the top selling binoculars and partly because of their warranty and product value for the money.

Last edited by [email protected] : Monday 27th January 2020 at 00:41.
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 00:35   #83
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Yup, some optic companies have great warranties and customer service here in the USA. Votex and Leupold are but just two of them. I know a fellow who had his Vortex Viper become separated from his ATV at 25 mpg on a very rocky trail. He told me he thought the view through them wasn’t quite the same as before the mishap. Vortex sent him a new pair, free of charge.

Two months ago my “original” Leupold Deltapoint which was mounted on the frame of my 1911 for the past 4+ years, taking recoil abuse a couple times a week with between 150/250 rounds being fired per week became erratic relative to sight adjustment. Leupold sent me an upgraded Deltapoint Pro at no charge. My brother sent Leupold a 30 year old scope that wasn’t focusing correctly and they sent him a new model scope, free of charge stating they couldn’t repair his vintage scope.

Both Vortex and Leupold have lifetime warranties. Leupold has been around for a loooong time, Vortex is a new kid on the block, so we’ll see how long they will last but they have been true to their word and that’s saying something in my book.
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 03:36   #84
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JoeJ

As a heads up "recoil "... " 150/250 rounds being fired" ...Look out for the discussion of these, it does not offend me in the slightest, but it may others. Nice to hear that about Leopold scopes.

Regarding Warranties from Vortex, I have older glass and some recently archived models from Nikon in perfect shape, but at present Nikon will not service them if there are any problems with them, no parts available they say.
If this can occur under Nikon a large company, it could happen to Vortex a much smaller company.

Remember nothing is forever, even Warranties.

Andy W.
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 06:43   #85
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JoeJ

As a heads up "recoil "... " 150/250 rounds being fired" ...Look out for the discussion of these, it does not offend me in the slightest, but it may others. Nice to hear that about Leopold scopes.

Regarding Warranties from Vortex, I have older glass and some recently archived models from Nikon in perfect shape, but at present Nikon will not service them if there are any problems with them, no parts available they say.
If this can occur under Nikon a large company, it could happen to Vortex a much smaller company.

Remember nothing is forever, even Warranties.

Andy W.
I think if Nikon runs out of parts they should still honor the warranty by replacing your binoculars with a new one and if that model is no longer made they should replace it with a newer model or give you a full refund on the purchase price of the binocular. Nikon replaced my defective EDG I with an EDG II when it was defective and many other people had their EDG I's replaced under warranty with an EDG II. I also heard of a customer who had an EDG II that Nikon couldn't fix for lack of parts so Nikon refunded them the full retail price for the EDG II which was over $2K and they took it and bought a Zeiss SF. Vortex doesn't repair so much in my experience they replace. So I would bet if you had an older Vortex that needed repair and they didn't make that binocular anymore they would replace it with a newer comparable and probably better binocular.

Last edited by [email protected] : Monday 27th January 2020 at 06:48.
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 12:54   #86
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In my experience Vortex does have some of the best Customer Service around. They are very personal and responsive when you need something or have problems. I must say I can't complain about Swarovski either though! I bought a Vortex Razor HD 10x42 and the diopter was funky and I returned it too the dealer and got a refund but I emailed Vortex and told them about it and they sent me a free pair of Vortex Razor HD 10x42 binoculars no charge. I wonder who else would do that! Not even Swarovski would!
Dennis,

Do I understand this correctly?
You bought a Vortex from a dealer, weren't happy about it, brought it back and received your money back.
After that, you emailed Vortex some Emo and received a brand new bin for free.
A: Is there no shame in you? and
B: How long do you think a company can last.

Jan
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 13:17   #87
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I'm sorry but you seem to have some difficulty with my posts.

Just to be clear.
Let me try again post 65 made crystal clear that I have no history of warranty with ANY OPTICS manufacture. Alpha or otherwise.

This is what I said and I stand by what I said 100%

"I think it's fair to say whatever the Vortex warranty, it's as good, or better than anything else on the market"


Who has a better warranty than this.

UNLIMITED LIFETIME WARRANTY
FULLY TRANSFERABLE
NO RECEIPT NEEDED

Please enlighten me me. I must be missing something.
I usually am

Oh and I know the end caps only cost pennies and that they are cosmetic, I don't need you to tell me that. Nevertheless, I wanted them and Vortex provided them, quickly and free of charge.

I don't normally get involved in online spats, I don't have the time.
But There seems to be a real snobbery element from some members who look down on anything they perceive in not to be "Alpha"
I read the post from the guy who sent his new Swarovski bins back to Swarovski and what a disaster that was.
So although I have no personal history a "alpha brand warranty" I have read a post on these forums from someone who has and that was nothing short off appalling service. And this was a pair of brand new bins.
It is not fair to say so, because:
According to EU Law Lifetime warranty is seen as misleading marketing, is not allowed and has no legal meaning. AFAIK Britain is still a EU member.
No dealer will except a warranty claim without a receipt that is his.
Reality shows that importers (once stopped with that brand) refuse warranty claims and point at their successor who will reject the claim on the ground: "we did not sell you this bin so go to the one who did". I'm in this business for years and have seen many importers changes and cases like these.

What we can say is, that Vortex stands for their warranty and because of their excessive warranty policy sells very good but their warranty handling is in no way any better than Bushnell, Opticron, Kite and Bynolyt to name a few and single out Swarovski to prove your point(?).

Jan

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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 18:16   #88
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It is not fair to say so, because:
According to EU Law Lifetime warranty is seen as misleading marketing, is not allowed and has no legal meaning. AFAIK Britain is still a EU member.
No dealer will except a warranty claim without a receipt that is his.
Reality shows that importers (once stopped with that brand) refuse warranty claims and point at their successor who will reject the claim on the ground: "we did not sell you this bin so go to the one who did". I'm in this business for years and have seen many importers changes and cases like these.

What we can say is, that Vortex stands for their warranty and because of their excessive warranty policy sells very good but their warranty handling is in no way any better than Bushnell, Opticron, Kite and Bynolyt to name a few and single out Swarovski to prove your point(?).

Jan
What a load of rubbish.
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 18:24   #89
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What a load of rubbish.
OK, let us agree that we disagree

Jan
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 18:56   #90
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https://www.binomania.it/vortex-razor-uhd-8x42/

Binomania review
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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 21:17   #91
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Nice Review. Binomania liked it as well. Thanks for that ZZZZZZ. Surprised me the UHD is not any bigger than the SF or EL but has the advantage of the AK prism for higher transmission. If they thought the UHD was sharper on-axis than the SF that is SHARP! The SF is one of the sharpest binoculars I have ever seen on-axis.

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Old Monday 27th January 2020, 21:30   #92
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Dennis,

Do I understand this correctly?
You bought a Vortex from a dealer, weren't happy about it, brought it back and received your money back.
After that, you emailed Vortex some Emo and received a brand new bin for free.
A: Is there no shame in you? and
B: How long do you think a company can last.

Jan
The first Vortex Razor HD 10x42 was MIC and I told them I was disappointed that they moved their manufacturing to China and that had something to do with the quality of it. So they sent me a MIJ Vortex Razor HD 10x42 and it was perfect. That is how Vortex is. It is a small cost to pay to keep customers satisfied and it works for them because they do quite well. Because of their excellent customer service in that case I bought another Vortex Razor UHD 8x42. I might not have had they not responded in that fashion.
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Old Tuesday 28th January 2020, 16:58   #93
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It would be nice see that pic of the four binoculars with all eye cups fully extended, to get the full view of the length and size of them, also for those who will not wear glasses and use them fully extended.
Everytime I look at the Vortex UHD 8X42, I see the Maven 9X45.

Andy W.

Last edited by dries1 : Wednesday 29th January 2020 at 14:42.
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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 02:25   #94
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...I also heard of a customer who had an EDG II that Nikon couldn't fix for lack of parts so Nikon refunded them the full retail price for the EDG II which was over $2K and they took it and bought a Zeiss SF....

We had that happen for two customers here at Optics4Birding. Both had EDG II 10x42s and Nikon gave them each a full refund. Both bought SF 10x42s.



Since then, Nikon has revised their warranty. It is no longer No Fault. Their announcement of a No Fault warranty is no longer on their website nor on their warranty cards. We pulled our Nikon counter mats that had their No Fault logo on them.
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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 02:35   #95
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I agree with Steve C that the Razor UHD is a hunting binocular, and not really intended for birders. We hear from birders all the time that the Swarovski EL focuses too slowly. 900° of turn from close to infinity makes focusing down to 5' excruciating. The butterfly, dragonfly, or bird at your feet is gone before you can achieve focus. That is why Gerry Dobler didn't make the same mistake with the Victory SF (smart focus). The UHD takes nearly 1080° to accomplish the task. When you combine that with a 32+ oz. body, it's going to be a hard sell for birders. We brought this up in our meeting with Vortex at SHOT last week, and they agreed. As Dennis says, this is good for long range hunters, but I agree with Steve C that the vast majority of birders won't accept it.
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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 03:56   #96
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The vast majority of hunters won't accept a $1500 Vortex either.
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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 05:41   #97
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We had that happen for two customers here at Optics4Birding. Both had EDG II 10x42s and Nikon gave them each a full refund. Both bought SF 10x42s.



Since then, Nikon has revised their warranty. It is no longer No Fault. Their announcement of a No Fault warranty is no longer on their website nor on their warranty cards. We pulled our Nikon counter mats that had their No Fault logo on them.
It was your post I read! Thanks, for jogging my memory. That was a good deal for those customers!
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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 05:57   #98
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I agree with Steve C that the Razor UHD is a hunting binocular, and not really intended for birders. We hear from birders all the time that the Swarovski EL focuses too slowly. 900° of turn from close to infinity makes focusing down to 5' excruciating. The butterfly, dragonfly, or bird at your feet is gone before you can achieve focus. That is why Gerry Dobler didn't make the same mistake with the Victory SF (smart focus). The UHD takes nearly 1080° to accomplish the task. When you combine that with a 32+ oz. body, it's going to be a hard sell for birders. We brought this up in our meeting with Vortex at SHOT last week, and they agreed. As Dennis says, this is good for long range hunters, but I agree with Steve C that the vast majority of birders won't accept it.
In the Binomania review it says to go from minimum focus to long distance it takes 2 1/2 turns anti-clockwise but at 3 meters it only takes 1 turn of the knob to infinity. The focus doesn't bother me since I am used to an EL and I generally don't look at dragonflies and birds at my feet. The 32 oz. doesn't bother me either if that is what it takes to get this kind of brightness and on-axis resolution with the AK prism requiring a bigger binocular. This thing is SHARP and BRIGHT on-axis. After all some people are willing to carry an 8x56 to get better on-axis resolution and less aberration's. I like my 8x56 Zeiss Conquest HD for that reason. I like the Razor UHD 8x42 so much I bought a Razor UHD 18x56 for long range viewing. I am thinking it could replace a spotter in a lot of situations. I will review it when I get it. More to come.

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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 13:21   #99
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I like the Razor UHD 8x42 so much I bought a Razor UHD 18x56 for long range viewing. I am thinking it could replace a spotter in a lot of situations. I will review it when I get it. More to come.
It's a good service your doing Dennis, providing first hand experience of these new bins - much appreciated!

I use a 15x56 as a spotter and it works great. I imagine the Razor UHD 18x56 will also do a fine job. Looking forward to your review.
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Old Wednesday 29th January 2020, 15:03   #100
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It's a good service your doing Dennis, providing first hand experience of these new bins - much appreciated!

I use a 15x56 as a spotter and it works great. I imagine the Razor UHD 18x56 will also do a fine job. Looking forward to your review.
That is what I like to do. Try new binoculars. I find it interesting when a new binocular comes on the market to test it out.
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