Eye relief? (1 Viewer)

black crow · Apr 30, 2018

What goes into the decision making process for a binoculars eye relief? I see that the Leica 10x32 Ultravids have a 13.5mm eye relief. That would be restrictive for eyeglass users. Why would they do that knowing it would cut into the number of people who would feel comfortable using them?

Troubador · Apr 30, 2018

One reason would be weight and bulk. If you increase the eye relief and do nothing else, the fov gets smaller. if you want to increase the eye relief and maintain or increase the field of view you need a bigger diameter eyepiece. Bigger lenses = more cost + more bulk + more weight = higher retail price. This brief explanation comes direct from a product developer at a major optics company. It is probably simplistic and avoids other complications.

Also, no binos and their ER and eyecups will suit every person on earth and their eyeglasses. Optics companies need to decide what sort of percentage of people to aim for. In your example, I think for most company's 10x32 models probably fight with their 7x binos (if they have any) for the position of 'slowest sellers'. Perhaps Leica don't have big sales ambitions/expectations for this model and therefore didn't want to invest much in it.

Lee

Pinewood · Apr 30, 2018

Hello Black Crow,

I chose the 10x32 Zeiss FL over the then current Leica 10x32 for its longer eye relief, 15.2 mm, wide field and small package see Zeiss specs.
Yes, the 10x32 is not a great seller but it suits my needs, a little extra reach when I need in a fairly compact size.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

Lightbender · Apr 30, 2018

Troubador said:
Also, no binos and their ER and eyecups will suit every person on earth and their eyeglasses. Optics companies need to decide what sort of percentage of people to aim for.

Lee

[FONT="Verdana",sans-serif]I’m obviously not within the target group of binocular buyers: I wear glasses, and eye relief of both my SV 8x32 and SF 8x42 is 1 or 2 mm too short. I cannot see the whole frame. Too sad.[/FONT]

oldfortyfive · Apr 30, 2018

Lightbender said:
[FONT="Verdana",sans-serif]I’m obviously not within the target group of binocular buyers: I wear glasses, and eye relief of both my SV 8x32 and SF 8x42 is 1 or 2 mm too short. I cannot see the whole frame. Too sad.[/FONT]

Considering the newer SV 8x32's have 20mm relief you must have some pretty hefty glasses.

Lightbender · Apr 30, 2018

oldfortyfive said:
Considering the newer SV 8x32's have 20mm relief you must have some pretty hefty glasses.

Those 20mm are existing only on paper. Usable eye relief is shorter. I suspect that a real ER of 20mm would be just perfect for me. Does anybody know from own experience whether the Noctivid 8x42 would give me these additional one or two millimetres (compared to my current SV 8x32 or SF 8x42)? Your help is appreciated.

wdc · Apr 30, 2018

Lightbender said:
[FONT="Verdana",sans-serif]I’m obviously not within the target group of binocular buyers: I wear glasses, and eye relief of both my SV 8x32 and SF 8x42 is 1 or 2 mm too short. I cannot see the whole frame. Too sad.[/FONT]

That is frustrating. I am lucky that both of those pairs fit me, but there are plenty that don't. I'm aware that I need more eye relief than some others on the forum who also wear glasses, but you've got me beat.

I am curious, have you found any bins that will show the entire field?

-Bill

tenex · Apr 30, 2018

Troubador said:
I think for most companies 10x32 models probably fight with their 7x binos (if they have any) for the position of 'slowest sellers'. Perhaps Leica don't have big sales ambitions/expectations for this model and therefore didn't want to invest much in it.

Actually, the 8x32 UV has no more eye relief than the 10. Neither does the 12x50, and the other UVs have only slightly more, and this has been true for a long time at Leica. The Noctivid is now the first to offer more than 16mm.

I used to think this represented a choice to maintain FOV for the rest of us, but it seems that Swaro and Zeiss can offer the same FOV with more ER, so it really must just be cost-cutting, or possibly a size/weight issue. The 32/42 Leicas do tend to be the smallest, especially with eyecups extended. I guess according to their math, this approach works. I've used one for years now...

wdc · Apr 30, 2018

tenex said:
Actually, the 8x32 UV has no more eye relief than the 10. Neither does the 12x50, and the other UVs have only slightly more, and this has been true for a long time at Leica. The Noctivid is now the first to offer more than 16mm.

The original Ultravid 7x42 has 17mm, and so does the Trinovid HD 8x32. I did try out the Ultravid HD+ 8x32 in a shop, and it was like looking through a blurry keyhole with my glasses on. Impossible! I envy folks that can use a bin that small. An ideal travel bin.

-Bill

jring · Apr 30, 2018

Hi,

has anybody with the not enough ER problem tried a pair of Conquest HD 8x42? Those are infamous for offering too much ER for normal sighted people (and Zeiss delivers longer eyecups on request).

Joachim

wdc · Apr 30, 2018

Lightbender said:
Those 20mm are existing only on paper. Usable eye relief is shorter. I suspect that a real ER of 20mm would be just perfect for me. Does anybody know from own experience whether the Noctivid 8x42 would give me these additional one or two millimetres (compared to my current SV 8x32 or SF 8x42)? Your help is appreciated.

For what its worth, I find that Leica, at 17mm works for me with glasses. Zeiss at 18mm.

Noctivid is 19, so might work for you, as that is 2mm more than I need. There's the possibility it will fit. Get yourself to the nearest dealer and try one. Easiest way to find out.

-Bill

wdc · May 1, 2018

jring said:
Hi,

has anybody with the not enough ER problem tried a pair of Conquest HD 8x42? Those are infamous for offering too much ER for normal sighted people (and Zeiss delivers longer eyecups on request).

Joachim

The Conquest HD 8x42 work fine for me.
-Bill

chill6x6 · May 1, 2018

Lightbender said:
Those 20mm are existing only on paper. Usable eye relief is shorter. I suspect that a real ER of 20mm would be just perfect for me. Does anybody know from own experience whether the Noctivid 8x42 would give me these additional one or two millimetres (compared to my current SV 8x32 or SF 8x42)? Your help is appreciated.

The Noctivid 8X42 has the most ER of any 8X42 I have...certainly more than the SV 8X32 and the SF 8X42 though those ARE good ones. The Noctivid is probably your best option.

black crow · May 1, 2018

Troubador said:
One reason would be weight and bulk. If you increase the eye relief and do nothing else, the fov gets smaller. if you want to increase the eye relief and maintain or increase the field of view you need a bigger diameter eyepiece. Bigger lenses = more cost + more bulk + more weight = higher retail price. This brief explanation comes direct from a product developer at a major optics company. It is probably simplistic and avoids other complications.

Also, no binos and their ER and eyecups will suit every person on earth and their eyeglasses. Optics companies need to decide what sort of percentage of people to aim for. In your example, I think for most companies 10x32 models probably fight with their 7x binos (if they have any) for the position of 'slowest sellers'. Perhaps Leica don't have big sales ambitions/expectations for this model and therefore didn't want to invest much in it.

Lee

Maybe you're right. They are going for the small and lightweight niche. Still it seems like a lot of people wear glasses and that would remove that choice for a lot of people. My eyes will likely be loving it. Let's hope so, they get there in two days. It certainly got some nice reviews by hunters.

Kevin Conville · May 1, 2018

There's BIG glasses and small glasses.
How many of you using glasses consider getting a pair to help fit between your eyes and the binoculars?

Though I don't like to wear glasses when using binoculars as I prefer contacts, I can see the full field in my Leicas with my glasses on. 8x32 and 12x50 Trinovids BTW, and we all know what miserable specs for eye relief they have!

So much talk about what manufacturers must be thinking and what they haven't accomplished and so little talk about getting a pair of glasses for birding B

black crow · May 1, 2018

I like the look of those little guys. Great idea. Maybe the shape of your face might be a factor.

elkcub · May 1, 2018

As well as your eyeglass prescription. :brains:

Swarovski's 8x42 SLC is another one to consider, having 18.5mm eye relief and somewhat lighter weight than the Leica Noctivid. SONA warranty service is also superb.

Ed

Boogieshrew · May 1, 2018

Kevin Conville said:
There's BIG glasses and small glasses.
How many of you using glasses consider getting a pair to help fit between your eyes and the binoculars?

Though I don't like to wear glasses when using binoculars as I prefer contacts, I can see the full field in my Leicas with my glasses on. 8x32 and 12x50 Trinovids BTW, and we all know what miserable specs for eye relief they have!

So much talk about what manufacturers must be thinking and what they haven't accomplished and so little talk about getting a pair of glasses for birding B

You are right Kevin. Thought should be given to our glasses.
I usually take a pair of bins to the opticians when choosing my glasses (I have a single vision pair specifically for birding as well as my everyday varifocals).
My glasses are expensive and I don’t want to spend all that cash only to find that my bins aren’t suited to them.
I also get the best glasses I can. Why have great quality bins if you’re going to put poor quality eye glass lenses behind them?

Troubador · May 1, 2018

I have frameless spectacles fitted with Zeiss Drivesafe Lenses. These must be thinner than previous Zeiss lenses I have had because I now need to unscrew the eyecups up a notch or if there is no convenient clicks-stop I put a 3.5mm rubber o-ring under it. BTW I don't unscew the eyecups and put the o-ring literally underneath I just stretch it over the eyecup and push it down to sit on top of the optical tube under the side-rim of the eyecup. So these lenses have allowed me to access more of the available eye relief. Undoubtedly there must be similarly thin lenses available from other brands.

Lee

Kevin Conville · May 1, 2018

Boogieshrew said:
I also get the best glasses I can. Why have great quality bins if you’re going to put poor quality eye glass lenses behind them?

Indeed. And how many of you have anti reflective coatings on your glasses?

When people review binoculars and write about things like glare and critical positioning of the eye, I wonder if they wear glasses and how they hold the bins.
As has been written about on these pages before, a thumbs up grip will help mask light from entering the oculars from the side. Few use a thumbs up hold, and adding a pair of glasses, often w/o AR coatings, and it gets worse.

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