Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

AGW and rising sea levels

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Sunday 13th November 2016, 15:49   #26
John Cantelo
Registered User
 
John Cantelo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canterbury, UK
Posts: 6,183
Thanks "fugl" for all of the interesting links. It's good of you to take the time. The trouble is that those with their heads in the sand won't notice until the tide comes in ....
__________________
John

Please support Andalucia Bird Society www.andalusiabirdsociety.org Visit my website & blog on birding in SW Spain at http://birdingcadizprovince.weebly.com/
John Cantelo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 13th November 2016, 18:52   #27
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by John Cantelo View Post
Thanks "fugl" for all of the interesting links. It's good of you to take the time. The trouble is that those with their heads in the sand won't notice until the tide comes in ....
You're welcome. All too true, I'm afraid, particularly in the US under the soon-to-be administration.
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 16th November 2016, 14:50   #28
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Fascinating article on combating GW by fertilizing the oceans with iron--

http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...te_change.html
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 16th November 2016, 14:57   #29
John Cantelo
Registered User
 
John Cantelo's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Canterbury, UK
Posts: 6,183
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
Fascinating article on combating GW by fertilizing the oceans with iron--

http://www.slate.com/articles/techno...te_change.html
Thanks again. Naturally, some will complain that it's a load of sh*t!
__________________
John

Please support Andalucia Bird Society www.andalusiabirdsociety.org Visit my website & blog on birding in SW Spain at http://birdingcadizprovince.weebly.com/
John Cantelo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 19:01   #30
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
AGW and a massive puffin die-off in the North Pacific--

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/...b099512f823237
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 22:10   #31
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 17,839
Not surprising, sadly - the whole Arctic has been crazy hot for the last 2-3 months.

The sea temperature off Svalbard was 18C at the end of August and 17C at the end of October; should be max 3C in the summer.

Just as bad in the Southern Hemisphere oceans too, with record low sea ice for the time of year.

Combined, the total sea ice is seriously frightening now - see last 3 months on the graphs below. This has never happened before. I suspect this means we've passed the tipping point.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Sea ice.jpg
Views:	92
Size:	215.6 KB
ID:	606036  Click image for larger version

Name:	Sea ice 2.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	81.3 KB
ID:	606037  
Nutcracker is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 22:14   #32
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Not surprising, sadly - the whole Arctic has been crazy hot for the last 2-3 months.

The sea temperature off Svalbard was 18C at the end of August and 17C at the end of October; should be max 3C in the summer.

Just as bad in the Southern Hemisphere oceans too, with record low sea ice for the time of year.

Combined, the total sea ice is seriously frightening now - see last 3 months on the graphs below. This has never happened before. I suspect this means we've passed the tipping point.
Oh my, hope you're wrong. . .
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 19th November 2016, 22:49   #33
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 17,839
Hope so. But I fear probably not.

Arctic sea ice is melting right nowin the middle of 24-hour night.

Today's temperature anomaly. Note the 20 degree (Celsius) excess
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Arctic 19 Nov 2016.jpg
Views:	81
Size:	177.5 KB
ID:	606039  
Nutcracker is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 20th November 2016, 06:11   #34
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
The Age of Ignorance--

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/op...ore-ipad-share
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Sunday 20th November 2016, 12:14   #35
locustella
Registered User
 
locustella's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Poland
Posts: 832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Note the 20 degree (Celsius) excess
This would be really significant, shocking difference, if not occurring sometimes in the past.
locustella is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Wednesday 8th March 2017, 20:37   #36
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
AGW strikes again--

https://nyti.ms/2m36XjG
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Wednesday 8th March 2017, 23:27   #37
elkcub
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019
 
elkcub's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 4,458
Quote:
...The study, by scientists working as part of a group called World Weather Attribution, looked at the influence of climate change on the temperatures, using models of the atmosphere as it exists and of a hypothetical atmosphere with no greenhouse gas emissions and thus no human-driven climate change. They found that a warm February like the one just experienced is about four times more likely in the current climate than it would have been in 1900, before significant emissions began to change the climate.
In other words, even using unsubstantiated climate models the probability is .25 (1 in 4) that it would have happened in pre-industrial times anyway. Sorry, this is pseudo-scientific alarmism.

We could go into the foolishness and misuse of statistics, but I'll restrain myself.

Ed
__________________
Understanding optics is child's play compared to understanding child's play.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." Richard Feynman
elkcub is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 00:03   #38
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
In other words, even using unsubstantiated climate models the probability is .25 (1 in 4) that it would have happened in pre-industrial times anyway. Sorry, this is pseudo-scientific alarmism.
Way too strong a condemnation. The probability cited, while certainly not in itself "proving" anything, is congruent with the masses of other evidence for AGW, and there's nothing in the article to suggest a stronger claim is being made for it.

The world is heating up, a phenomenon to which a growing consensus of scientists ascribes in part, at least, to human activities. A few skeptics dispute human involvement. So, given this state of affairs and what appears to be the extreme urgency of the problem, what do you suggest we do with respect to carbon emissions? Nothing at all, just merrily continue to pollute away in hopes that the mavericks are right and the scientific consensus is wrong? I recall asking this question of you in another thread long ago. You didn't answer it then but I'm hoping you will now.
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 16:25   #39
elkcub
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019
 
elkcub's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 4,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
... So, given this state of affairs and what appears to be the extreme urgency of the problem, what do you suggest we do with respect to carbon [dioxide] emissions? ...
Absolutely nothing at all! What appears be an urgent problem to you does not appear that way to me from a scientific perspective. I'm on the record for that.

An inconvenient truth, however, is that I've got to get on with my taxes.

Ed
__________________
Understanding optics is child's play compared to understanding child's play.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." Richard Feynman
elkcub is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 16:44   #40
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
Absolutely nothing at all! What appears be an urgent problem to you does not appear that way to me from a scientific perspective. I'm on the record for that.
I know your attitude toward AGW but are you saying that GW as such is not a serious problem? Surely, whatever the causes, ice is melting and sea levels are rising?
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 17:30   #41
elkcub
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019
 
elkcub's Avatar

 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Northern California
Posts: 4,458
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
I know your attitude toward AGW but are you saying that GW as such is not a serious problem? Surely, whatever the causes, ice is melting and sea levels are rising?
In my opinion GW has been taking place since the last ice age, which the earth will probably return to in only a few thousand years. In the meantime, it makes sense to plan ahead to avoid the impact of weather, volcanos, earthquakes, sea-level, etc. It also makes sense to eliminate/sequester man-made pollutants that are dangerous to human/animal health and to avoid destruction of the environment by unsafe drilling, fracking, and transport. But wasting money and other resources trying to control the earth's surface temperature is a massive exercise in futility, — and likely a dangerous one if we knew how to do it.

Take CO2 out of the political equation and I'm cool. We needlessly spend many billions of tax dollars on that stuff when it could be used for infrastructure repair and real environmental protection.

Gotta go. Uncle Sam is waiting.

Ed
__________________
Understanding optics is child's play compared to understanding child's play.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts." Richard Feynman
elkcub is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 17:54   #42
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
In my opinion GW has been taking place since the last ice age, which the earth will probably return to in only a few thousand years. In the meantime, it makes sense to plan ahead to avoid the impact of weather, volcanos, earthquakes, sea-level, etc. It also makes sense to eliminate/sequester man-made pollutants that are dangerous to human/animal health and to avoid destruction of the environment by unsafe drilling, fracking, and transport. But wasting money and other resources trying to control the earth's surface temperature is a massive exercise in futility, — and likely a dangerous one if we knew how to do it.

Take CO2 out of the political equation and I'm cool. We needlessly spend many billions of tax dollars on that stuff when it could be used for infrastructure repair and real environmental protection.

Gotta go. Uncle Sam is waiting.
Thanks for the clarification of your views. Personally, I find your "we're in an interglacial so naturally temperatures are rising" argument facile to say the least but neither of us it going to change his mind about any of this so there's no point in further wrangling.

Taxes, now. . .. I wouldn't dream of doing them myself. That's why God invented the CPA, to relieve us of that particular burden. Costs a few bucks but definitely worth it IMO.
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 17:54   #43
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Nottingham UK and St Petersburg, Russia
Posts: 14,270
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
In my opinion GW has been taking place since the last ice age, which the earth will probably return to in only a few thousand years. In the meantime, it makes sense to plan ahead to avoid the impact of weather, volcanos, earthquakes, sea-level, etc. It also makes sense to eliminate/sequester man-made pollutants that are dangerous to human/animal health and to avoid destruction of the environment by unsafe drilling, fracking, and transport. But wasting money and other resources trying to control the earth's surface temperature is a massive exercise in futility, — and likely a dangerous one if we knew how to do it.

Take CO2 out of the political equation and I'm cool. We needlessly spend many billions of tax dollars on that stuff when it could be used for infrastructure repair and real environmental protection.

Ed
Is it just a coincidence then that the curb on CFC use and burning of fossil fules has seen the hole in the ozone layer, largely repaired?

So much so that you never hear it mentioned these days?


A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 18:42   #44
MJB
Registered User
 
MJB's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Holt
Posts: 4,644
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
Is it just a coincidence then that the curb on CFC use and burning of fossil fuels has seen the hole in the ozone layer, largely repaired?

So much so that you never hear it mentioned these days?


A
The CFC ban did lead to the lessening of the hole in the ozone layer. The case against fossil fuels is the rate of change of CO2 levels correlating with fossil fuel consumption.
MJB
__________________
The fuzziness of all supposedly absolute taxonomic distinctions - Stephen Jay Gould (1977) "Ever Since Darwin: Reflections in Natural History".
Species and subspecies are but a convenient fiction - Kees van Deemter (2010), "In praise of vagueness". Biology is messy
MJB is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th March 2017, 21:11   #45
litebeam
Registered User
 
litebeam's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northwest U.S.
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
In my opinion GW has been taking place since the last ice age, which the earth will probably return to in only a few thousand years. In the meantime, it makes sense to plan ahead to avoid the impact of weather, volcanos, earthquakes, sea-level, etc. It also makes sense to eliminate/sequester man-made pollutants that are dangerous to human/animal health and to avoid destruction of the environment by unsafe drilling, fracking, and transport. But wasting money and other resources trying to control the earth's surface temperature is a massive exercise in futility, and likely a dangerous one if we knew how to do it.

Take CO2 out of the political equation and I'm cool. We needlessly spend many billions of tax dollars on that stuff when it could be used for infrastructure repair and real environmental protection.

Gotta go. Uncle Sam is waiting.

Ed
Great posting...
litebeam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 10th March 2017, 00:34   #46
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
Great posting...
But Trump is for all these things Ed mentions and you claim to deplore: fracking, unsafe transport of fossil fuels, deregulation of environmental pollution (lead shot, dumping of coal waste in streams, etc, etc). Yet you're one of Trump's most enthusiastic supporters. How does that not make you a hypocrite of the deepest dye?

Or maybe you don't really think Ed's post is all that "great" but are just playing the hypocrite again?
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 10th March 2017, 01:11   #47
litebeam
Registered User
 
litebeam's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northwest U.S.
Posts: 544
I agree with Ed on some things, I disagree on some things. Frankly it's the same way that I approach Trump.

But Ed comes at AGW with practicality and his postings are done with a measure of kindness even with those he disagrees. He has my respect.
litebeam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 10th March 2017, 02:16   #48
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
I agree with Ed on some things, I disagree on some things. Frankly it's the same way that I approach Trump.

But Ed comes at AGW with practicality and his postings are done with a measure of kindness even with those he disagrees. He has my respect.
My, my, look who's had a personality transplant. No grins or chortles or lols or yawns or dumb emojis or animal noises of any kind! Has to be a strain! Just a matter of time, I predict, before your outraged system rejects the new personality and you revert to type.

We shall see. . ..
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 10th March 2017, 03:38   #49
litebeam
Registered User
 
litebeam's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northwest U.S.
Posts: 544
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
My, my, look who's had a personality transplant. No grins or chortles or lols or yawns or dumb emojis or animal noises of any kind! Has to be a strain! Just a matter of time, I predict, before your outraged system rejects the new personality and you revert to type.

We shall see. . ..
No, quite simple really. Post and banter with respect, and respect is given.
I have none for you and my past postings reflect that.
Your MO here is obvious: you don't like when others have dialogue with me; you instantly interject with the "You need to understand that litebeam is this....or that.." It's tiresome.

I enjoy this forum and I like people here, even some that I disagree with. They know how to have an exchange of ideas without the constant disrespect.
With you that isn't possible.
litebeam is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 10th March 2017, 04:40   #50
fugl
Registered User
BF Supporter 2019

 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 14,845
Quote:
Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
No, quite simple really. Post and banter with respect, and respect is given.
I have none for you and my past postings reflect that.
Your MO here is obvious: you don't like when others have dialogue with me; you instantly interject with the "You need to understand that litebeam is this....or that.." It's tiresome.

I enjoy this forum and I like people here, even some that I disagree with. They know how to have an exchange of ideas without the constant disrespect.
With you that isn't possible.
Oh, you poor soul, sinned against but never sinning. What a lot you have to put up with!

Sharia law, still worried about us "progressives" imposing it on you good folk out there in "flyover country"? Or have you moved on to some other obsession?
__________________
Bird photos (Flickr): http://www.flickr.com/photos/fugl/
". . .Let them be left, O let them be left, wildness and wet;
Long live the weeds and the wilderness yet."

--Gerard Manley Hopkins
fugl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2011 2012 2013 2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Rising Sun Sets in the South Farnboro John Cetaceans & Marine Life 3 Wednesday 2nd April 2014 19:49
Rising to the challenge (RSPB) BF Newsroom Latest news from the RSPB 0 Thursday 29th March 2012 15:58
Camera Insurance/rising prices simon Equipment Insurance 0 Thursday 22nd January 2009 19:59
Rising sea could end bittern boom (BBC News) BF Newsroom Live Bird News from around the World 12 Saturday 8th March 2008 08:57
Cormorants rising from the ashes.... Jos Stratford Birds & Birding 9 Tuesday 30th November 2004 14:17

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.24293709 seconds with 40 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 08:51.