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AGW and rising sea levels

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Old Thursday 17th August 2017, 23:14   #226
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I don't know about the NYT, but it's easy enough to make a pdf file for WaPo articles, which is what I did on #222. Newspapers have the right to limit viewing online to those who pay for the privilege. IMO.

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Old Thursday 17th August 2017, 23:15   #227
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[quote=litebeam;3604039]Riiiiiight.
O had the majority for some time.

And Obama's brainchild was the trillion dollar stimulus monstrosity, but oh yeah, quoting the weakling..."I guess 'shovel-ready' wasn't as 'shovel-ready' as we expected"....er.....*chuckle*.

Pathetic....and his legacy.[/QUOTE

It is not good for the country when the Congress wastes its time shooting at each other rather than addressing the manifold problems we face.
Byzantium went down because its leaders were focused on getting their opponents rather than on saving the state. Hopefully we have learned from that experience.
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Old Thursday 17th August 2017, 23:32   #228
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I don't know about the NYT, but it's easy enough to make a pdf file for WaPo articles, which is what I did on #222. Newspapers have the right to limit viewing online to those who pay for the privilege. IMO.
Sure, but I'm a subscriber and you'd think they'd want me to share articles with non-subscribers for marketing reasons. Maybe there's an implementation problem of some sort?
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Old Thursday 17th August 2017, 23:51   #229
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Sure, but I'm a subscriber and you'd think they'd want me to share articles with non-subscribers for marketing reasons. Maybe there's an implementation problem of some sort?
That's my point. Being a subscriber (as I am with WaPo) shouldn't give us the right to link potentially dozens of people on BF to their website as non-paying visitors. WaPo allows downloading files in pdf form and distributing them. NYT may do the same. It only takes a little more work to do it.

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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 00:02   #230
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That's my point. Being a subscriber (as I am with WaPo) shouldn't give us the right to link potentially dozens of people on BF to their website as non-paying visitors. WaPo allows downloading files in pdf form and distributing them. NYT may do the same. It only takes a little more work to do it.
Not to the entire content, certainly, but to individual articles, why not, particularly in view of the pdf work-around you mention? As I've said, I would have thought small-scale sharing of this sort would be welcomed as a potential means of bringing new subscribers into the fold
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 02:11   #231
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Not to the entire content, certainly, but to individual articles, why not, particularly in view of the pdf work-around you mention? As I've said, I would have thought small-scale sharing of this sort would be welcomed as a potential means of bringing new subscribers into the fold
How would that be established? My suggestion works quite well and avoids wasting time challenging newspaper publication policies. Besides, there's a big advantage to downloading PDF files for future access.

For example, it's much easier to reconstruct historical events with PDF files than the old fashioned method of clipping newspaper articles see attachment, it's a humerus read.

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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 02:19   #232
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How would that be established?
The ability to post links to individual articles to non-subscribers would be one of the privileges of the paid subscription.

I take your point about the advantages of pdfs which would remain an option. A good analogy might be text messaging vs email. I was quite scornful of the former when first introduced but am now devoted to it as just that little bit more convenient which makes all the difference.
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Old Friday 18th August 2017, 04:12   #233
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It is not good for the country when the Congress wastes its time shooting at each other rather than addressing the manifold problems we face.
Byzantium went down because its leaders were focused on getting their opponents rather than on saving the state. Hopefully we have learned from that experience.
You won't get an argument from me on that. Both sides are absolute obstructionist snakes.

Although when the country votes a man in, they usually want his policies instituted--*usually.* O'care was loathed by most all on both sides.
Trump ran on many things and some of them, like staunch immigration enforcement, are still wildly popular across party lines.
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 03:59   #234
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Trusting climate science--

http://flip.it/Mpsjtl
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 08:02   #235
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Trusting climate science--

http://flip.it/Mpsjtl
Mr. Gillis got it backwards. The great men of science that he mentions, Galileo, Einstein, etc. were the skeptics of their time. The reason they are now credited with scientific revolutions is exactly because the experts of the day had reached an incorrect consensus. Would you have been skeptical of geocentrism as Galileo was, or questioned the limits of Newtonian physics as Einstein did? I don't think so.

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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 14:40   #236
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Mr. Gillis got it backwards. The great men of science that he mentions, Galileo, Einstein, etc. were the skeptics of their time. The reason they are now credited with scientific revolutions is exactly because the experts of the day had reached an incorrect consensus. Would you have been skeptical of geocentrism as Galileo was, or questioned the limits of Newtonian physics as Einstein did? I don't think so.
Actually, it's you who have got it backwards. It's the AGW deniers who are the reactionary stick-in-the-muds here, the supporters who are the forward thinkers.

How would I have reacted to Galileo's and Einstein's discoveries had I been contemporary with them? I don't know. Probably, since I'm no physicist, with skepticism in Galileo's case (though I would have enjoyed the church's discomfiture), bemusement in Einstein's. I suspect your reaction, and that of most of the other posters to this thread, would have been similar, at least initially. It's very difficult to shake oneself free of prevailing prejudices in the kinds of fundamental questions dealt with by these 2 great scientists, particularly when the proffered alternatives are so counter-intuitive. In any case, the analogy with the current climate science "debate", involving as it does the patient collection and analysis of empirical data with no questioning of basic principles, is comically overblown,
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 20:17   #237
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Actually, it's you who have got it backwards. It's the AGW deniers who are the reactionary stick-in-the-muds here, the supporters [of AGW] who are the forward thinkers.

How would I have reacted to Galileo's and Einstein's discoveries had I been contemporary with them? I don't know. Probably, since I'm no physicist or scientist, with skepticism in Galileo's case (though I would have enjoyed the church's discomfiture), bemusement in Einstein's. I suspect your reaction, and that of most of the other posters to this thread, would have been similar, at least initially. It's very difficult to shake oneself free of prevailing prejudices in the kinds of fundamental questions dealt with by these 2 great scientists, particularly when the proffered alternatives are so counter-intuitive. In any case, the analogy with the current climate science "debate", involving as it does the patient collection and analysis of empirical data with no questioning of basic principles, is comically overblown,
It is apparent that you have neither listened to nor thought about what legitimate, skeptical scientists have been saying about various AGW hypotheses, e.g., that man is responsible for most of the global warming during the 20th Century, back radiation warms the earth, etc. It's been pointed out by many qualified physicists that these statements violate the basic principles of thermodynamics and gas chemistry. It's been pointed out by qualified applied statisticians (including me) that climate science data are often fictitious, e.g., reconstructions, and that analyses often use misrepresentations known as "lying with statistics." Critical tests are hard to come by (primarily because AGW predictions are imprecise) but a few have been performed on empirical data that clearly do not support assertions made by the IPCC and others who rely on circulation models.

BTW, your incessant use of pejoratives, as highlighted above, reflects the underlying contempt you obviously have for anyone with a different opinion. That terminology is appropriate for Holocaust "deniers," perhaps, but despicable when applied to sincere people whose only sin is to question the scientific basis for AGW. That, and being called a conspiracy theorist, is very hard to overlook.

Ed
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 20:39   #238
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It is apparent that you have neither listened to nor thought about what legitimate, skeptical scientists have been saying about various AGW hypotheses, e.g., that man is responsible for most of the global warming during the 20th Century, back radiation warms the earth, etc. It's been pointed out by many qualified physicists that these statements violate the basic principles of thermodynamics and gas chemistry. It's been pointed out by qualified applied statisticians (including me) that climate science data are often fictitious, e.g., reconstructions, and that analyses often use misrepresentations known as "lying with statistics." Critical tests are hard to come by (primarily because AGW predictions are imprecise) but a few have been performed on empirical data that clearly do not support assertions made by the IPCC and others who rely on circulation models.

BTW, your incessant use of pejoratives, as highlighted above, reflects the underlying contempt you obviously have for anyone with a different opinion. That terminology is appropriate for Holocaust "deniers," perhaps, but despicable when applied to sincere people whose only sin is to question the scientific basis for AGW. That, and being called a conspiracy theorist, is very hard to overlook.

Ed

Brav---freaking--O...

And frankly I mentioned those same scientists here a year ago for the same reasons.
Hilarity ensued by the 'open minded'....
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 20:59   #239
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Brav---freaking--O...

And frankly I mentioned those same scientists here a year ago for the same reasons.
Hilarity ensued by the 'open minded'....
There is a high probability that will recur.
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 21:28   #240
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It is apparent that you have neither listened to nor thought about what legitimate, skeptical scientists have been saying about various AGW hypotheses, e.g., that man is responsible for most of the global warming during the 20th Century, back radiation warms the earth, etc. It's been pointed out by many qualified physicists that these statements violate the basic principles of thermodynamics and gas chemistry. It's been pointed out by qualified applied statisticians (including me) that climate science data are often fictitious, e.g., reconstructions, and that analyses often use misrepresentations known as "lying with statistics." Critical tests are hard to come by (primarily because AGW predictions are imprecise) but a few have been performed on empirical data that clearly do not support assertions made by the IPCC and others who rely on circulation models.

BTW, your incessant use of pejoratives, as highlighted above, reflects the underlying contempt you obviously have for anyone with a different opinion. That terminology is appropriate for Holocaust "deniers," perhaps, but despicable when applied to sincere people whose only sin is to question the scientific basis for AGW. That, and being called a conspiracy theorist, is very hard to overlook.
C'mon, Ed, calm down. You consider yourself an AGW "denier", do you then, not a "skeptic"? If so, I was mistaken in giving you the benefit of the doubt, the "sin" to my mind being not in the "questioning" of AGW but in its blanket rejection. With regard to disrespectful language ("pejoratives", etc.), pot calling the kettle black: you're the one after all who described a whole highly credentialed profession as "not true scientists".

Anyway, we've danced this dance many times before--too many--so I won't go on.

PS. My sympathies. It must be annoying to have that illiterate lamebrain crawl out of the undergrowth with his inane comments in your support whenever we get into one of these wrangles. [And how's that for a fine array of "pejoratives" in a single not very long sentence. ]
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 22:06   #241
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AGW deniers to a man, I would guess--

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/m...jpg?1502975148

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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 22:49   #242
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...
PS. My sympathies. It must be annoying to have that illiterate moron crawl out of the undergrowth with his inane comments in your support whenever we get into one of these wrangles. [And how's that for a fine array of "pejoratives" in a single not very long sentence. ]
No need, I'm actually most appreciative of being supported by someone of a different political view who's clearly literate enough to comprehend both of us.

BTW, The term "illiterate moron" is closely tied with the American eugenics movement, of which I hope you're not a member. Absent that, it really serves no useful purpose to insult someone, and it's certainly not a basis for pride or admiration.

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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 23:24   #243
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AGW deniers to a man, I would guess--

https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/m...jpg?1502975148

And if they were, so what?
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 23:40   #244
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No need, I'm actually most appreciative of being supported by someone of a different political view who's clearly literate enough to comprehend both of us.
Nonsense, he comprehends nothing, he's just a mouth spouting far-right gibberish.

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BTW, The term "illiterate moron" is closely tied with the American eugenics movement, of which I hope you're not a member. Absent that, it really serves no useful purpose to insult someone, and is certainly not a basis for pride or admiration.
Yes, yes, I'm well aware of the old "mental defective" typology, parts of which, as you surely know, passed into the common speech long ago as generalized insults. As it happens, I substituted "lamebrain" for "moron" prior to reading your post, not for reasons of political correctness, but as more accurately descriptive of our friend's cognitive abilities.

And of the 3 of us, the one most likely to subscribe to eugenics doctrine is neither you nor me. . .. See, for example, his views on "melanin" in another thread.

[But, now, I'm afraid, after your spirited defense of the poor little snowflake, you'll never get rid him, he'll be following you around like a puppy wherever you go.]
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Old Saturday 19th August 2017, 23:50   #245
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And if they were, so what?
Just making the point that the vast majority of anti-AGW sentiment comes not from the handful of maverick scientists you cite but from politically motivated right-wingers of various stripes and their dupes.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 00:57   #246
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Nonsense, he comprehends nothing, he's just a mouth spouting far-right gibberish.



Yes, yes, I'm well aware of the old "mental defective" typology, parts of which, as you surely know, passed into the common speech long ago as generalized insults. As it happens, I substituted "lamebrain" for "moron" prior to reading your post, not for reasons of political correctness, but as more accurately descriptive of our friend's cognitive abilities.

And of the 3 of us, the one most likely to subscribe to eugenics doctrine is neither you nor me. . .. See, for example, his views on "melanin" in another thread.

[But, now, I'm afraid, after your spirited defense of the little fellow, you'll never get rid him, he'll be following you around like a puppy wherever you go.]
As far a litebeam is concerned, I was pleasantly surprised sometime back that we could openly interact without the need for insult or innuendos. That's all I ask of any discussant, not that they share my views (if I could figure them out). In potentially contentious cases, such as his earlier reference to 'melanin,' clarifying what he may have meant would be far more productive than repeatedly pelting him with accusations. It's a fair question, I think, but none of us is entitled to be the grand inquisitor. Everyone (except Steve) is equal here.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 01:42   #247
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Republican congressmen starting to come round at last. Maybe there's hope yet for a sensible emissions policy?

http://politi.co/2v0Ai2M
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 02:00   #248
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Quote:
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No need, I'm actually most appreciative of being supported by someone of a different political view who's clearly literate enough to comprehend both of us.
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Nonsense, he comprehends nothing, he's just a mouth spouting far-right gibberish....
Litebeam has mentioned several times before that he runs a few head of cattle on his property .....

as such, he would be more than qualified to call out *BS* when he sees it




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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 02:02   #249
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As far a litebeam is concerned, I was pleasantly surprised sometime back that we could openly interact without the need for insult or innuendos. That's all I ask of any discussant, not that they share my views (if I could figure them out). In potentially contentious cases, such as his earlier reference to 'melanin,' clarifying what he may have meant would be far more productive than repeatedly pelting him with accusations. It's a fair question, I think, but none of us is entitled to be the grand inquisitor. Everyone (except Steve) is equal here.
Sorry, Ed, you're telling me I can't call somebody out for overt racism? Doing so isn't the act of a "grand inquisitor" but the normal reaction of decent people everywhere. And we well know what he meant by his melanin remark--no clarification necessary--in spite of his craven attempts to walk it back in later posts. Ditto for his hatred and fear of Muslims.

In matters of this kind, even Blue Steve, must abide our question. . ..
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 02:06   #250
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Nah, let me break the logjam. The only melanin reference litebeam made is HERE.

Referring to Obama he said:
Quote:
...The guy was a lightweight, ill-equipped for the job, He had eloquence and melanin, and a checkered past littered with un-American radicals.
I don't agree with him, for the most part, but have no objection to Obama being referred to as an eloquent black man, keeping in mind that his mother was white so he might have turned out to be an eloquent white man. If so, would he still have been elected as the first half-black white man? Maybe so, maybe not. Melanin probably helped. I never did ask him what "un-American radical past" Obama had, 'cause that would really have been informative.

Sorry, in context I don't see a problem, and on reflection I interpreted it that way at the time. In fact, I think he put it in a very literate way.

Ed
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