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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 02:39   #251
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...

PS. My sympathies. It must be annoying to have that illiterate lamebrain crawl out of the undergrowth with his inane comments in your support whenever we get into one of these wrangles. [And how's that for a fine array of "pejoratives" in a single not very long sentence. ]
Ahhh....keep trying, Fugs.
Your antagonism is always badge of honor and brings a smile to my face.
Trying to juxtapose your 'moron, lamebrain' comments here about me verses what I actually share here, it's laughable. I have much to learn, but I am an educated man.
It is one thing to disagree, but the constant berating is exactly what elkcub alluded to. You having nothing else but ad hom attacks.

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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 02:48   #252
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Nah, let me break the logjam. The only melanin reference litebeam made is HERE.

Referring to Obama he said:


I don't agree with him, for the most part, but have no objection to Obama being referred to as an eloquent black man, keeping in mind that his mother was white so he might have turned out to be an eloquent white man. If so, would he still have been elected as the first half-black white man? Maybe so, maybe not. Melanin probably helped. I never did ask him what "un-American radical past" Obama had, — 'cause that would really have been informative.

Sorry, in context I don't see a problem, and on reflection I interpreted it that way at the time. In fact, I think he put it in a very literate way.

Ed
One shouldn't see a problem. I've said it in the past with complete honesty...the best part of Obama was his blackness! It brought hope and vision to our country. Unfortunately he was a huge disappointment in race relations, BLM et al. and that 'failed' sentiment is shared by a large consensus of Black Americans. Many feel betrayed by the man.
The last resort of the coward is to paint a man as a racist. I rest my case.

And...Un-American past? Obama's mentors were Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. Research the men and get back to me sometime.

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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 02:48   #253
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Ahhh....keep trying, Fugs.
Your antagonism is always badge of honor and brings a smile to my face.
Trying to juxatpose your 'moron, lamebrain' comments here about me verses what I actually share here, it's laughable. I have much to learn, but I am an educated man.
It is one thing to disagree, but the constant berating is exactly what elkcub alluded to. You having nothing else but ad hom attacks.
Verses? You mean like "I think I shall never see a poem lovely as a tree"? "Educated man", hmmm. . ..
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 03:05   #254
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Verses? You mean like "I think I shall never see a poem lovely as a tree"? "Educated man", hmmm. . ..
Picking nits, avoiding the real substance....as usual.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 04:06   #255
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One shouldn't see a problem. I've said it in the past with complete honesty...the best part of Obama was his blackness! It brought hope and vision to our country. Unfortunately he was a huge disappointment in race relations, BLM et al. and that 'failed' sentiment is shared by a large consensus of Black Americans. Many feel betrayed by the man.
The last resort of the coward is to paint a man as a racist. I rest my case.

And...Un-American past? Obama's mentors were Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. Research the men and get back to me sometime.
Really, Obama's "blackness. . .brought hope and vision" to you personally? Somehow, I don't think so, particularly in view of those alleged evil "mentors" that you're so exercised about (you can't even keep your story straight from one paragraph to the next, can you?). Denial of racism is both the first and last resort of the hypocrite.

The Obama administration poisoned race relations? How exactly, by cracking down on police brutality and fighting against voter suppression laws? And the BLM? What happened there, the Feds interfered with your "ranching" operations in some way, did they? It's all personal with you it seems. Like small-minded bigots everywhere, you've no conception at all of a greater good.

Oh, and a "large consensus of black Americans" feel betrayed by Obama. Where on earth did you come up with that phony statistic, Breitbart News, Daily Stormer?
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 05:16   #256
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To me, personally? To everyone.
I know I don't fit into your little 'racist' box, too bad. But I think all men truly are created equal.
One can be a conservative and love all men of any color. Sick and tired of creeps from the left, the party of the KKK and Jim Crow, claiming moral superiority as it relates to race. Democrats are the party of racism.

Unfortunately spineless Republicans have allowed the media to distort that without a fight, and they have ceded ground to Democrats who strive to keep minorities right where they want them for voting purposes.

And if you aren't aware of the dissatisfaction of Black Americans overall with Obama's performance, you are blind to reality.

Black Lives Matter....not the Bureau of Land Management.
Your conjured "cattle ranching" conspiracy theories have clearly gone to your head.

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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 05:20   #257
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One shouldn't see a problem. I've said it in the past with complete honesty...the best part of Obama was his blackness! It brought hope and vision to our country. Unfortunately he was a huge disappointment in race relations, BLM et al. and that 'failed' sentiment is shared by a large consensus of Black Americans. Many feel betrayed by the man.
The last resort of the coward is to paint a man as a racist. I rest my case.

And...Un-American past? Obama's mentors were Bill Ayers and Jeremiah Wright. Research the men and get back to me sometime.
Well, I found this Wiki paragraph concerning Bill Ayers and Obama, which speaks for itself. I have no reason to question it since it was evidently a guilt-by-association tactic of the McCain campaign.:
Quote:
... Obama–Ayers Controversy[edit]
Main article: Bill Ayers 2008 presidential election controversy
During the 2008 U.S. presidential campaign, a controversy arose about Ayers' contacts with then-candidate Barack Obama, a matter that had been public knowledge in Chicago for years.[73] After being raised by the American and British press[73][74][75] the connection was picked up by conservative blogs and newspapers in the United States. The matter was raised in a campaign debate by moderator George Stephanopoulos, and later became an issue for the John McCain presidential campaign. Investigations by The New York Times, CNN, and other news organizations concluded that Obama does not have a close relationship with Ayers.[75][76][77][78]
In an op-ed piece after the election, Ayers denied any close association with Obama, and criticized the Republican campaign for its use of guilt by association tactics.[44]
Jeremiah Wright was a very unfortunate situation, again leading to blaming Obama for outrageous words spoken by someone else. Guilt by association. I don't believe either he or Ayers were Obama's "mentors" — but you may choose to believe otherwise. Melanin may well have played a role here too.

"Obamacare," i.e. the ACA, was fought tooth and nail by the Republicans during his first term, and that rose to blind fury after the first mid-term and throughout his entire second term. During that period not a single effort was made by Congress to find and fix problems with the initial ACA even though it was modeled after the Republican Massachusetts Health Care Reform under Gov. Geo. Romney, which he disavowed when he ran for President. My children happened to benefit from the ACA since it eliminated the scourge of "prior conditions.'

Such is the nature of vicious, hateful politics in the Unites States, which led to the election of a vicious, hateful President in 2016, — a man who really does have racist views and criminal connections dating back many decades. His criminally convicted father, who he revered, was his mentor. The results we see playing out in front of our eyes.

Ed
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 05:49   #258
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Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dorn were best friends with the Obamas, 'McCain' and his campaign notwithstanding.
That isn't even debatable. If you think you'll get any honesty from CNN or the NYT, think again. Ayers and Dorn were domestic terrorists and the last thing the media wanted was a solid link between them.
Ayers publicly stated he actually penned Obama's book, "Dreams of my Father"...
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...te_dreams.html

Way off topic and I've said enough on these people. G'night.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 06:15   #259
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
To me, personally? To everyone.
I know I don't fit into your little 'racist' box, too bad. But I think all men truly are created equal.
One can be a conservative and love all men of any color. Sick and tired of creeps from the left, the party of the KKK and Jim Crow, claiming moral superiority as it relates to race. Democrats are the party of racism.

Unfortunately spineless Republicans have allowed the media to distort that without a fight, and they have ceded ground to Democrats who strive to keep minorities right where they want them for voting purposes.

And if you aren't aware of the dissatisfaction of Black Americans overall with Obama's performance, you are blind to reality.

Black Lives Matter....not the Bureau of Land Management.


Your conjured "cattle ranching" conspiracy theories have clearly gone to your head.
So, you voted for Obama, did you, since you found him so inspirational? I thought not. How about our failing president, your boy Trump? Still see him as the Great White Hope? Yes, I thought so

The KKK migrated to the the Republican Party decades ago where they've found a congenial home ever since along with neo-nazis and most of the other far-right fringe groups in the country, or haven't you been keeping up with current events? Blacks, Hispanics and other racial minorities are as solidly in the Democratic camp as they ever were; thus the frantic Republican attempts to deny them the franchise by gerrymandering and voter suppression laws. You must know all this--everybody with an interest in politics does--but choose to deny it in the service of whatever discreditable motives drive your cultural and racial resentments.

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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
Ayers publicly stated he actually penned Obama's book, "Dreams of my Father"...
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...te_dreams.html.
Christ, that's your idea of evidence? Unsupported assertion published uncritically in a ludicrously misnamed rag like "American Thinker". "Educated man" my SFA!
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 07:38   #260
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Bill Ayers and his wife Bernadine Dorn were best friends with the Obamas, 'McCain' and his campaign notwithstanding.
That isn't even debatable. If you think you'll get any honesty from CNN or the NYT, think again. Ayers and Dorn were domestic terrorists and the last thing the media wanted was a solid link between them.
Ayers publicly stated he actually penned Obama's book, "Dreams of my Father"...
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/...te_dreams.html

Way off topic and I've said enough on these people. G'night.
Except for the laws of thermodynamics everything is debatable.

The only evidence you've presented seems to be Ayers' own statement, and that includes: "Now if you can help me prove that I wrote it, I’ll split the royalties with you.” Which means that he can't prove that he wrote the book. It sounds like a complete fabrication to me.

Here is Snopes' synopsis of The Ayer's relationship to the Obamas. The assertion that Ayers was Obama's close friend, and that he wrote the book (apparently out of whole cloth) again doesn't add up. The assertion don't pass smell test.

Got anything more compelling?

Ed
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 07:55   #261
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Originally Posted by elkcub View Post
.....Such is the nature of vicious, hateful politics in the Unites States .....
Ed

It is neither left or right, black nor white, that is the real issue - but the 'establishment' / 'system' .... I thought the hippie folk were meant to have kicked it's *rs* back in the 60's!

DJT or "Dumbo" to some (more progressive, open-minded types?! :) may indeed have vicious and racist views - but he also fully realizes that the swamp never got drained (and neither did the even nastier Russian and Chinese ones), and that problems are never just caused by one side - groups, partys, or even countries - in relation to that, I was encouraged to hear him say, "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....-isnt-innocent

The under fire 'establishment' (just look at how those remarks were reported) tried to paint it as Putin worship, but of course by then, Trump would have been briefed on the darker underbelly of the US Government - all of which thrived unfettered - even under Obama ....
*The financial, privacy, and rights, black hole on earth that is the NSA
*The arms sales to State Terrorists - just look at the recent Saudi led blockade of Qatar, and the war waged on Yemen
(To say nothing of a litany of fiscal and humanitarian misadventures caused by US backing of terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc)
*The unruly rise of the drones and AI warfare
*And among many more, the modern day slavery (for all colours) through debt.

Could we have had a better, more altruistic man (or woman - but not Hilary! :) to lead us out of the swamp? Sure! Of course! But perhaps the unsavory nature of the man, is more a reflection of the nature of the task.

Your on topic points made on this thread about 'group think' are crystal clear to me, and very straight forward, to the point where I would have to question the motivations (or personality) of anyone using them as a scurrilous plaything ....

Just as group think and lack of critical scrutiny apply to AGW, and funding sources - so too do they to politics (though neither side duking it out here on BF seems to have a full grasp of that - or so it seems from outside the fishbowl :) . I recently saw a documentary on 'hacktivist' and 'Internet freedom fighter' Aaron Swartz - who supposedly, through a meta-analysis of legal research funding, and congressional legislative pushes, uncovered exactly the same sort of linkages/gravy train/corruptive distortions .....

We lost a good one here ....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

The path to the promised land may entail the odd wet boot as we wade out of the swamp and through various cess pools along the way ....... [and I do miss the wonderful baritone cadence of Obama's voice (only partially compensated for by Baldwin's hilariously accurate portrayal of Trump's mannerisms :) ] ..... but really, such a leader will only arise when empowered by the overwhelming weight of goodness within each of us - the kind that sees us all stand together instead of some of the snooty-nosed quasi-intellectual bullying we have witnessed [here] (let alone the other KKK Nazi type downright nastiness) .... TALLY HO !!


As ever, in eternal optimism

Chosun

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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 08:37   #262
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It's late here, and I need to get some sleep. But, with regard to Obama's "Dreams" book, I've attached a short section from David Remnick's "The Life and Rise of Barack Obama," (2010).

It speaks for itself. Ayers' assertions are not supportable.

Ed
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 16:23   #263
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...



Christ, that's your idea of evidence? Unsupported assertion published uncritically in a ludicrously misnamed rag like "American Thinker". "Educated man" my SFA!
Says the mouse who willingly crawls out for a dab of homonymic 'verses' peanut butter...

My pal irony.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 16:40   #264
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It's late here, and I need to get some sleep. But, with regard to Obama's "Dreams" book, I've attached a short section from David Remnick's "The Life and Rise of Barack Obama," (2010).

It speaks for itself. Ayers' assertions are not supportable.
Thanks for the excerpt, Ed, which makes very entertaining reading as well as making our mutual point.

"West of piffle and east of hokum", a wonderful phrase (and as applicable to the bloviations of a certain very recent contributor to this thread as to the most vapid of campaign hagiographies.). Its author (Jill Lepore who Remnick quotes), by the way, is one of my favorite historians and I highly recommend her writings to anyone with an interest in American social and cultural history
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 16:44   #265
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Got anything more compelling?

Ed
If you can't discern the fact that Ayers was backing away from O for his campaign's sake, I can't help you. It's painfully obvious. If Trump had these associations the pitchforks would be out. Oh, wait....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_143654.html
I've watched video of Jeremiah Wright furious that Obama essentially turned his back on him to distance the two. Who wouldn't do so with the filth that Wright spewed? For twenty years O lapped up his social justice hate speech like so much pablum..

I'm bored with discussing these cretins.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 16:58   #266
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Says the mouse who willingly crawls out for a dab of homonymic 'verses' peanut butter...

My pal irony.
My, my, 2 separate posts for one poor little "nit". Sounds like someone's goat has been well and truly gotten.

Next time you're near a dictionary look up the word "irony" which doesn't quite mean what you think it does. It's just a little east of "homonymic" so you shouldn't have trouble finding it.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 17:41   #267
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My, my, 2 separate posts for one poor little "nit". Sounds like someone's goat has been well and truly gotten.

Next time you're near a dictionary look up the word "irony" which doesn't quite mean what you think it does. It's just a little east of "homonymic" so you shouldn't have trouble finding it.
Me thinks I'm still firmly in that dome......never left.
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 21:01   #268
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
If you can't discern the fact that Ayers was backing away from O for his campaign's sake, I can't help you. It's painfully obvious. If Trump had these associations the pitchforks would be out. Oh, wait....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_143654.html
I've watched video of Jeremiah Wright furious that Obama essentially turned his back on him to distance the two. Who wouldn't do so with the filth that Wright spewed? For twenty years O lapped up his social justice hate speech like so much pablum..

I'm bored with discussing these cretins.
After hearing Wright's statements years ago I was truly appalled, but it was said bombastically in a larger sermon and making a point very similar to Trump's recent assertion "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" (and similar words referring to the US as killers). Were you to condemn Trump for that remark, then I could better understand your willingness to condemn Rev. Wright. But, even so, there is a very big difference since Obama never uttered such words. In fact, he's been vigorously condemned for occasionally admitting that the US made various mistakes, such as, the Iraq war and violating international treaty on torture, e.g. Abu Ghraib. So, were you willing to condemn Trump for his statements then I could see some principled consistency. Otherwise, it's a double standard, although I must admit that to me Bush-Cheney sins were many times more ghastly than Obama's mere exposure to Rev. Wright's sermons. For entertainment I used to go to Mason Square Garden to listen to Billy Graham evangelize. Never believed a word of it but he was a great performer.

Ed
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Old Sunday 20th August 2017, 22:17   #269
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Ed

It is neither left or right, black nor white, that is the real issue - but the 'establishment' / 'system' .... I thought the hippie folk were meant to have kicked it's *rs* back in the 60's!

DJT or "Dumbo" to some (more progressive, open-minded types?! :) may indeed have vicious and racist views - but he also fully realizes that the swamp never got drained (and neither did the even nastier Russian and Chinese ones), and that problems are never just caused by one side - groups, partys, or even countries - in relation to that, I was encouraged to hear him say, "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" https://www.google.com.au/amp/s/www....-isnt-innocent

The under fire 'establishment' (just look at how those remarks were reported) tried to paint it as Putin worship, but of course by then, Trump would have been briefed on the darker underbelly of the US Government - all of which thrived unfettered - even under Obama ....
*The financial, privacy, and rights, black hole on earth that is the NSA
*The arms sales to State Terrorists - just look at the recent Saudi led blockade of Qatar, and the war waged on Yemen
(To say nothing of a litany of fiscal and humanitarian misadventures caused by US backing of terrorists in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc)
*The unruly rise of the drones and AI warfare
*And among many more, the modern day slavery (for all colours) through debt.

Could we have had a better, more altruistic man (or woman - but not Hilary! :) to lead us out of the swamp? Sure! Of course! But perhaps the unsavory nature of the man, is more a reflection of the nature of the task.

Your on topic points made on this thread about 'group think' are crystal clear to me, and very straight forward, to the point where I would have to question the motivations (or personality) of anyone using them as a scurrilous plaything ....

Just as group think and lack of critical scrutiny apply to AGW, and funding sources - so too do they to politics (though neither side duking it out here on BF seems to have a full grasp of that - or so it seems from outside the fishbowl :) . I recently saw a documentary on 'hacktivist' and 'Internet freedom fighter' Aaron Swartz - who supposedly, through a meta-analysis of legal research funding, and congressional legislative pushes, uncovered exactly the same sort of linkages/gravy train/corruptive distortions .....

We lost a good one here ....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz

The path to the promised land may entail the odd wet boot as we wade out of the swamp and through various cess pools along the way ....... [and I do miss the wonderful baritone cadence of Obama's voice (only partially compensated for by Baldwin's hilariously accurate portrayal of Trump's mannerisms :) ] ..... but really, such a leader will only arise when empowered by the overwhelming weight of goodness within each of us - the kind that sees us all stand together instead of some of the snooty-nosed quasi-intellectual bullying we have witnessed [here] (let alone the other KKK Nazi type downright nastiness) .... TALLY HO !!


As ever, in eternal optimism

Chosun
I always liked Einstein's way of putting it:
Quote:
"We cannot solve problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."
We're doubling down on name-calling, which is just a convenient way to maintain our multiteral bigotry.

Ed
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Old Monday 21st August 2017, 00:41   #270
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After hearing Wright's statements years ago I was truly appalled, but it was said bombastically in a larger sermon and making a point very similar to Trump's recent assertion "What do you think? Our country's so innocent?" (and similar words referring to the US as killers). Were you to condemn Trump for that remark, then I could better understand your willingness to condemn Rev. Wright. But, even so, there is a very big difference since Obama never uttered such words. In fact, he's been vigorously condemned for occasionally admitting that the US made various mistakes, such as, the Iraq war and violating international treaty on torture, e.g. Abu Ghraib. So, were you willing to condemn Trump for his statements then I could see some principled consistency. Otherwise, it's a double standard, although I must admit that to me Bush-Cheney sins were many times more ghastly than Obama's mere exposure to Rev. Wright's sermons. For entertainment I used to go to Mason Square Gardens to listen to Billy Graham evangelize. Never believed a word of it but he was a great performer.

Ed
I was appalled at Trump's comment!
I've been appalled at many of Trump's statements. I like some of the guy's ideas & policies, I dislike others.


That was easy, wasn't it?
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Old Monday 21st August 2017, 01:00   #271
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I was appalled at Trump's comment!
I've been appalled at many of Trump's statements. I like some of the guy's ideas & policies, I dislike others.


That was easy, wasn't it?
Sort of what I hoped to hear.

Ed
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Old Monday 21st August 2017, 02:32   #272
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I always liked Einstein's way of putting it:
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"We cannot solve problems with the same thinking we used when we created them."

We're doubling down on name-calling, which is just a convenient way to maintain our multiteral bigotry.

Ed
Indeed Ed - we need a ladder - not a shovel!

Though the honesty to call out behaviour diametrically opposed to our collective desired utopia is a necessary part of the process, although just a part ...... the main focus and energy should always be given to looking, voicing, and stepping in the right direction.

As for Trump's comment about US innocence - far from appalling, it was in fact one of the most refreshingly honest things I've ever heard a President say - well done DJT! (I am way too young to have caught Roosevelt, and all Kennedy's wonderful inspirations :)


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Old Monday 21st August 2017, 02:36   #273
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If you can't discern the fact that Ayers was backing away from O for his campaign's sake, I can't help you. It's painfully obvious. If Trump had these associations the pitchforks would be out. Oh, wait....
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/1..._n_143654.html
I've watched video of Jeremiah Wright furious that Obama essentially turned his back on him to distance the two. Who wouldn't do so with the filth that Wright spewed? For twenty years O lapped up his social justice hate speech like so much pablum..

I'm bored with discussing these cretins.
Agree LB,

If only US warships could back away and distance themselves as quickly from civilian container and oil ships!



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Old Monday 21st August 2017, 02:37   #274
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Sorry not biting, Ed. I've gotten as far in the weeds with this as I intend to.
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Old Monday 21st August 2017, 03:08   #275
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As for Trump's comment about US innocence - far from appalling, it was in fact one of the most refreshingly honest things I've ever heard a President say - well done DJT!
A statement of breathtaking naïveté! Trump's comment was a purely tactical one--off the top of his head as usual--in defense of his (then) policy of cozying up to Putin, whose authoritarianism he admired (and still admires though there's since been a falling out).
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