Trinovid 7x35 (2 Viewers)

Kevin Conville · Dec 15, 2017

NDhunter said:
This Leica binocular is
designed to be like the early version, except eyecup changes to make it
more glasses friendly.

OK, that is pretty obvious. But if adherence to the original design is important, then why is changing the eyecups OK? Better waterproofing wouldn't even be visible.

NDhunter said:
For those offput by the design, and not being waterproof, then just move
along, Leica feels the same way. Leica and many others have many other choices that are fully waterproof.

First off, I've read of no one "offput" by the design. And, "Just move along"? Really? And you're speaking for Leica as well?

Also, I would consider a lack of waterproofness a flaw, not a feature, of a particular design. It doesn't add character or aesthetics, or function.

Leica does have other choices, but not like these. We are discussing these bins.
There aren't any other 7x35 wide angle roofs like these.

Don't mean to bust your chops here, Jerry, but your post reads a little condescending.

etudiant · Dec 16, 2017

NDhunter said:
Lee:

A well said explanation, and I agree with it fully. This Leica binocular is
designed to be like the early version, except eyecup changes to make it
more glasses friendly.

Jerry

It does seems peculiar to me to make a cosmetic change in a 'revival' design and yet to not go the minimal extra distance to fully waterproof an inherently pretty water resistant product. We must be missing something.

maico · Dec 16, 2017

CloseFocus said:
If the body is nitrogen-filled, does that mean that it's waterproof? Maybe the focusing mechanism is the "splash-proof" part of the binocular, and the optical tubes are waterproof.

I was wondering that but nitrogen is not mentioned in the catalogue pdf.
Having said that, none of the Canon IS models are waterproof apart from the 10x42 L which is submersible according to JIS 7 standard. Even then it's not nitrogen purged. I can't recall people complaining Canons fog up...

https://www.allbinos.com/18.12-bino..._8x42_binoculars_Leica_Ultravid_8x42_HD_.html

NDhunter · Dec 16, 2017

Kevin Conville said:
OK, that is pretty obvious. But if adherence to the original design is important, then why is changing the eyecups OK? Better waterproofing wouldn't even be visible.

First off, I've read of no one "offput" by the design. And, "Just move along"? Really? And you're speaking for Leica as well?

Also, I would consider a lack of waterproofness a flaw, not a feature, of a particular design. It doesn't add character or aesthetics, or function.

Leica does have other choices, but not like these. We are discussing these bins.
There aren't any other 7x35 wide angle roofs like these.

Don't mean to bust your chops here, Jerry, but your post reads a little condescending.

Kevin:

I think you understand the new model, and your opinion is sound.
If you don't like it, that is just fine with me.

It is a take it or leave it type of thing. |;|

This is a niche, boutique binocular, and Leica well knows that.
Some buyers like a blast from the past, an updated classic.

I've tried many of the best binoculars on the market today, and have also started trying the classics of yesterday. I get bored easily, it seems.

Just don't drag it down that long and dusty road, nobody has even
looked through it yet.

Jerry

ceasar · Dec 16, 2017

Kevin Conville said:
OK, that is pretty obvious. But if adherence to the original design is important, then why is changing the eyecups OK? Better waterproofing wouldn't even be visible...................................

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Don't mean to bust your chops here, Jerry, but your post reads a little condescending.

So do many of the posts that criticize Leica for the way it is made.

Kevin Conville · Dec 16, 2017

I am interested to know what people think was the process that brought Leica to remake the Leitz Trinovids.

Do you think they came up with it in a vacuum, amongst themselves?
Do any of you think they listened to feedback from their customer/users?
Do you think any Leica people follow threads on forums discussing their bins?

Do you think discussing the merits or deficiencies of any product has usefulness?
Do you think we should just do the math and if it doesn't add up (for ourselves) we should "move along" quietly without voicing a criticism or feedback?
Do you think the consumers have any driving effect on what manufacturers produce?
Do you think I should shut up?

ceasar · Dec 16, 2017

The old discontinued Leitz Trinovids with their unusual Uppendahl Roof Prisms and handsome light weight body design have long been a subject of discussion in the Binocular Forum here. Not constantly, mind you, but often enough IMO to have caught Leica management's eye as a potential reintroduction into a binocular market that was stagnating from a plethora of same old stodgy Schmidt-Pechan prism binoculars; the newest innovations of which were rather ugly binoculars with dual hinges.

I, for one, am glad Leica took a chance and brought them back with improved up to date coatings and eye cups. I had happily used a Leitz 7x42 Trinovid BA for about 10 years until I got a good deal ($700.00) on a discontinued new 7x42 Leica Trinovid BN right after the Ultravids were introduced.

Pricewise these new improved versions of the old Leitz binoculars are not in competition with top of the line Schmidt-Pechan binoculars but they are in competition with second tier Schmidt-Pechan binoculars and that even includes Leica's 2nd line of Trinovids which have Schmidt-Pechan prisms. I think that they will sell very well.

Bob

denco@comcast.n · Dec 16, 2017

Like it or not one thing that will be unique about the new Leica Trinovids is that they will probably be the only new $1300.00 Roof Prism binocular on the market that ISN'T waterproof. They probably will sell well because not everybody needs a waterproof binocular. Look at all the people that happily use the Nikon 8x30 EII without complaint. The Leica Trinovids with their wide FOV's and small compact form factor and high quality retro appeal will still be very attractive to a lot of people. I would buy one if I hadn't just bought that new Swarovski 8x30 CL.

ceasar · Dec 16, 2017

[email protected] said:
Like it or not one thing that will be unique about the new Leica Trinovids is that they will probably be the only new $1300.00 Roof Prism binocular on the market that ISN'T waterproof.:-O

Dennis,

In the binocular world as we have come to know it, everything about them is unique. Even the Abbe Konig binoculars have become an endangered species!

Bob

Troubador · Dec 16, 2017

CloseFocus said:
If the body is nitrogen-filled, does that mean that it's waterproof? Maybe the focusing mechanism is the "splash-proof" part of the binocular, and the optical tubes are waterproof.

CF I think you may have put your finger right on the button here. There is not a lot of room to design in additional grooves for o-rings or similar seals without dramatic changes to the basic arrangement.

These may not be Louis Vuiton luggage but they are more like vintage cars being put back on the roads with modern tyres ie the new eyecups which can be easily made to fit the existing threads.

Lee

denco@comcast.n · Dec 16, 2017

Troubador said:
CF I think you may have put your finger right on the button here. There is not a lot of room to design in additional grooves for o-rings or similar seals without dramatic changes to the basic arrangement.

These may not be Louis Vuiton luggage but they are more like vintage cars being put back on the roads with modern tyres ie the new eyecups which can be easily made to fit the existing threads.

Lee

I think you are right. To waterproof them would have probably required a major redesign. They will be nice binoculars with the optical updates and improved eyecups. The 7x35 is certainly interesting because there are not too many 7x35's out there. I look forward to trying them.

45northmt · Dec 17, 2017

I can appreciate that the new/old Trinovid's would require a complete design change in order to achieve waterproof status. I suppose my disappointment stems from the lack of a quality mid-sized 7x30/32/35mm binocular. 20 years ago I got a Swaro 7x30 SLC. While I loved the power/size, I gave them up in favor of first, an 8x32 BN, then an 8x32 Ultravid. The Leica's were plainly superior glass/builds. But I've been hoping for a 7X mid-sized bin since I gave up my Swaro's, and the 7x35 is my absolute favorite power/objective size binocular... a 5mm exit pupil is about all my 56 year old eyes need, and they will have a big, relaxed view without being overly large or heavy. Mostly, I think people are brainwashed in favor of power, hence the reason 10X is the best selling binocular power.

My instinct is that the old Trinovid line was resurrected for baby boomers, my age and older, who connote a quality binocular with the Leca Trinovid of our youth. Likely it's at its best as a "Safari" binocular for that generation's pilgrimage to the Dark Continent.

Dammit Leica, bring out a waterproof 7x32!!!!!!

PeterPS · Dec 17, 2017

I look forward to trying them

Me too, but it seems we'll have to wait a bit longer than expected. Initially they were expected to be in stores on 11/15 but it did not happen; the launch data was moved to 12/15 and then to 1/15/2018; now the date listed by some German retailers is 2/20, it seems that Leica is having some unforeseen problems with these.

Troubador · Dec 17, 2017

PeterPS said:
Me too, but it seems we'll have to wait a bit longer than expected. Initially they were expected to be in stores on 11/15 but it did not happen; the launch data was moved to 12/15 and then to 1/15/2018; now the date listed by some German retailers is 2/20, it seems that Leica is having some unforeseen problems with these.

Peter

I think you are dead right although announcing a model and then taking months to get it out there isn't confined to Leica, Zeiss has 'previous' when it comes to this.

Lee

jan van daalen · Dec 17, 2017

Troubador said:
Peter

I think you are dead right although announcing a model and then taking months to get it out there isn't confined to Leica, Zeiss has 'previous' when it comes to this.

Lee

I think in this case the business model is a bit different.
Where Zeiss was determined to bring out the model anyway, Leica might not in the end.
It wouldn't surprise me if final production of this Trinnie, being a Portugal initiative, is overruled by Wetzlar if the pre-sales were not good enough.
Can't think of any other reason. I've heard to many "legit" different reasons from Leica sources for the delay so far and I don't see Leica coming with a official explanation (as promised).
Do hope I'm wrong though. The 7x35 in black leather..... yammie yammie.

Jan

PeterPS · Dec 17, 2017

Jan:

That would be bad news, foremost for Leica, wouldn't it. Why announce them before you're fully sure you can deliver---do you know of any precedent? My hope was that in fact there were no production problems, and that Leica just wanted to build-up consumer's enthusiasm and anticipation.

Peter

ceasar · Dec 17, 2017

This appears to be a normal delay for a new model and these Trinovids are more than just a new model, they are an entirely new version of an obsoleted old binocular last seen around 1988 or 89 that gave way to a new binocular using an entirely different prism system.

It is hard to estimate the time that was needed to design and set up the machinery needed to manufacture the Uppendahl prisms required for the new ones. The old machinery was probably in storage but in what condition?

Under normal circumstances there are still unexplained delays. Nikon introduced the Monarch HG binoculars on July 14, 2016 but they did not start becoming available until around February 2017 and they were hard to find for several more months. Allbinos got to review one in February 2017. And one suspects that they were probably farmed out to an experienced Japanese OEM firm to be constructed.

http://www.nikon.com/news/2016/0714_monarch_hg_01.htm

Bob

BruceH · Dec 17, 2017

ceasar said:
.......
Under normal circumstances there are still unexplained delays. Nikon introduced the Monarch HG binoculars on July 14, 2016 but they did not start becoming available until around February 2017 and they were hard to find for several more months. Allbinos got to review one in February 2017. And one suspects that they were probably farmed out to an experienced Japanese OEM firm to be constructed.

http://www.nikon.com/news/2016/0714_monarch_hg_01.htm

Bob

Bob ...... Nikon strart selling the Nikon Monarch HG just after Birdfair in 2016 in Europe. Here is a review posted by Binastro during August, 2016.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=329521

Nikon USA was non committal about importing them and finally made the announcement at the January 2017 Shot Show. Steve from Optics for Birding posted something about Nikon USA requiring some changes to the accessories.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3466831&postcount=302

Nikon did announce a modular spotting scope about three or four years ago and then kept delaying the introduction. B & H Photo actually had it listed. Ultimately the scope never came to market and replaced by the current Monarch model that came out about the same time as the new HG binouclar.

Gijs van Ginkel · Dec 17, 2017

The Trinovid-2 7x35B came available in 1965 and was made until 1975. Production stopped until 1982, but since there were many customers interested in and asked for the 7x35, it was again produced until 1988 and that was it. There is a clear difference in performance between the earlier models (1965-1975) and the later models (1982-1988) and the reasons were outlined to me by an e-mail from Leitz/Leica based on information from mr. Hengst, at that time responsible for (new) developments at Leitz/Leica.
Now we are waiting for the third production series of the iconic binocular, I am really curious how they will perform, since the new ones undoubtedly will have a di-electric mirror coating, fase correction coatings and advanced multi-coatings and probably also AquaDura coatings. If they are built like the previous ones one can take them anywhere without worries about dust, water etc. unless one wants to use them at diving expeditions.
Gijs van Ginkel

Hermann · Dec 17, 2017

ceasar said:
It is hard to estimate the time that was needed to design and set up the machinery needed to manufacture the Uppendahl prisms required for the new ones. The old machinery was probably in storage but in what condition?

Taking into account the rather low price for a binocular supposedly made in Europe, I think it's not impossible that some components will be made in Asia. If that's the case, I think it's very well possible that the prism is the problem. After all, the Uppendahl prism isn't exactly common in modern binoculars, and maybe there have been problems getting hold of Uppendahl prisms in the quality required.

Pure speculation of course, but perhaps not that far-fetched.

Hermann

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