Suppression vs reporting; birders’ obligations during lockdown. (1 Viewer)

JWN Andrewes · Apr 5, 2020

rosbifs said:
I think in the law that releasing information is not accepting responsibility for others actions. Yes you might be perceived as tempting them but you are not the one jumping in the car and travelling. I don't think any court would argue that you compelled them...

Who in their right mind would try and use that as a defence? What would you gain by it? My car does 100mph and there is an accelerator under my right foot but that doesn't mean I could claim that the car manufacturer is responsible for my speeding.

I love reading about these 'rare' birds wherever they are, next door next town next country England Finland I could on.

andyadcock said:
There is something in the civil law, mainly aimed at the protection of children called 'allurements', maybe that needs to apply.

It basically states that where something is deemed as extra enticing, then measures outside the norm are required to prevent harm.

Robert_Young said:
Rather different situation to putting news out of a rare bird you've found, as the objective of such an act during the current lockdown would simply be to notify others of your find; there would be no intent from the finder to allure others to travel to see the bird for themselves.

When talking about where responsibility would lie I was more meaning in a moral sense than a legal one. The problem I would have is not worrying about whether I would be getting myself into trouble with the authorities, rather whether I would be causing harm.

Deb Burhinus · Apr 5, 2020

Judging by today’s 20 minute cycle ride to one of my patches (that I hadn’t visited for some months) we are already there, JC - if the situation I witnessed this afternoon has been replicated elsewhere in the country on this very warm, sunny Sunday, Hunt will be having words I am sure!

On my non-stop bike ride, I saw that the world and his wife were out, crowding paths with buggies and toddlers running around, street drinkers sitting in groups under Willows, dog walkers (who were out singularly with dogs on lead and walking clear of everyone), there were youngsters (teenagers) sitting in huddles on the river bank, very elderly people walking around, ramblers on motorbikes burning rubber in the firebreaks in the forest ... I saw more people out today on (what is normally a quiet) 20 minute walk to my local patch than I’ve ever seen before. I’m assuming they are all avoiding the open spaces in the ‘formal’ parks and town centre where the police are likely to be patrolling. Also very sad to see this ‘secret’ local patch of mine (which held breeding Woodcock, Woodlark and Tree Pipits last year, has now been completely trashed with months of litter (cans, plastic bottles, broken glass bottles, plastic bags etc etc) presumably by the group of motorbike ramblers who have ‘adopted’ the place as their meet up - I feel sick to death about it tbh

Robert_Young · Apr 5, 2020

John Cantelo said:
Yes, the weight of responsibility will bear upon those who break the rules but those that put news out will not be free from blame.

JWN Andrewes said:
The problem I would have is not worrying about whether I would be getting myself into trouble with the authorities, rather whether I would be causing harm.

This is where our opinions differ. I honestly would not feel any moral worry/blame if somebody chose to go see a bird that I had found and put the news out on my Twitter etc, no matter the consequences on their part.

Andy Adcock · Apr 5, 2020

Robert_Young said:
This is where our opinions differ. I honestly would not feel any moral worry/blame if somebody chose to go see a bird that I had found and put the news out on my Twitter etc, no matter the consequences on their part.

Why do you think people would need to hear about your 'find' in such times?

Paul Chapman · Apr 5, 2020

Two mile & 40 minute walk after dark with my wife this evening being the only time outside the garden today as usual. Nine vehicles including two taxis, a delivery driver & a recovery vehicle. Five other people out - all singly being three jogging & two walking.

I live on my patch & within 400 yards of the Bristol Channel. I have not seen it for a fortnight. I assume that it is still there.

I think you'll do well to find twenty twitchers over the last 25 years keener than me but apparently, I need to be saved from myself by people suppressing birds from me.... If I do need saving from myself, no one else would be responsible for my behaviour.

Stay safe all

Andy Adcock · Apr 6, 2020

Paul Chapman said:
Two mile & 40 minute walk after dark with my wife this evening being the only time outside the garden today as usual. Nine vehicles including two taxis, a delivery driver & a recovery vehicle. Five other people out - all singly being three jogging & two walking.

I live on my patch & within 400 yards of the Bristol Channel. I have not seen it for a fortnight. I assume that it is still there.

I think you'll do well to find twenty twitchers over the last 25 years keener than me but apparently, I need to be saved from myself by people suppressing birds from me.... If I do need saving from myself, no one else would be responsible for my behaviour.

Stay safe all

Clear case of 'Automatism' Paul, if it got to court, you'd get off. :t:

Farnboro John · Apr 6, 2020

andyadcock said:
Why do you think people would need to hear about your 'find' in such times?

Because some of us need to hear something interesting and exciting, even if we can't do anything about it. Even in this times it's not necessary to cut off interest in your own interests: in fact it's not in your own interest to do so.

John

Andy Adcock · Apr 6, 2020

Farnboro John said:
Because some of us need to hear something interesting and exciting, even if we can't do anything about it. Even in this times it's not necessary to cut off interest in your own interests: in fact it's not in your own interest to do so.

John

I've got plenty in my life to keep me interested without needing to hear about someone elses finds and getting the shakes over it.

Currently updating the taxonomy in 20 years worth of my trip reports and sorting old photos which just got me a tick. When that's done, I might start and seriously complie my mammal list from my reports which I've never done.

A couple of bird, periodicals to catch up on too, plenty to do, oh and a baby....:t:

Robert_Young · Apr 6, 2020

andyadcock said:
Why do you think people would need to hear about your 'find' in such times?

As mentioned up-thread, there are probably about 10 locals within a couple of km radius who would be able to take in any scarce bird I found as part of their daily exercise. I don't know all of them personally or have direct contact with them all, so releasing the news would ensure at least that they were all made aware. If they choose not to go see the bird, that's fine. If they choose to walk or cycle to see the bird individually, that's fine. If they or somebody else upon hearing the news chooses to drive to see the bird, that's not fine, but that is on their own head, not mine.

Plus as John says, simply knowing about a rarity turning up is still of interest. If a mega is found this week on the south coast there is 0% chance of me twitching it, but I'd still like to hear about it.

Andy Adcock · Apr 6, 2020

Robert_Young said:
As mentioned up-thread, there are probably about 10 locals within a couple of km radius who would be able to take in any scarce bird I found as part of their daily exercise. I don't know all of them personally or have direct contact with them all, so releasing the news would ensure at least that they were all made aware. If they choose not to go see the bird, that's fine. If they choose to walk or cycle to see the bird individually, that's fine. If they or somebody else upon hearing the news chooses to drive to see the bird, that's not fine, but that is on their own head, not mine.

Plus as John says, simply knowing about a rarity turning up is still of interest. If a mega is found this week on the south coast there is 0% chance of me twitching it, but I'd still like to hear about it.

Why not employ the old 'grapevine' method as people did pre-pager so the info has a chance to stay local?

I can guarantee that if a Rufous-tailed Robin, Thick-billed or Blackburnian Warbler, turned up on mainland Scotland or even the Hebs, it would be 'popular'...............

KenM · Apr 6, 2020

I suspect that a good proportion of “rares” occurring during this quarantine period would be flyovers, thus no need for “knicker twisting” there and if I’m getting a handle on this thread, any “backyard mega” would be “dutifully” suppressed with news put out and hopefully with images at a later date?

On a personal note, although having twitched in the past it was mostly a “social” thing, now I get far more pleasure from hunting and finding at a more leisurely pace mostly by myself although not always. If perchance a neighbour a few doors down suppresses a mega in his garden so be it that’s his prerogative, I have no divine right for notice or access this I accept...”finders keepers.” G-r-r-r-r!

Regarding the imposition of restrictions, they are a necessary evil and we should not desist from complying, as there have been too many casualties of this hideous virus...past, present and to come.

paintedSnipe · Apr 7, 2020

It seems like a lot of people are still posting somewhat unusual stuff on eBird. Does anyone use that here? For example, I subscribe to the 'rare bird alert' email on eBird and I get all kinds of crazy stuff, but definitely not on the level of mega-rarity. Many of those unusual birds are blocked by eBird anyway from showing up...but I understand that doesn't cover vagrants, just endangered birds.

An option I like, which isn't really that much related to the coronavirus, is just wait to report until months have passed. At the same time, if the bird has a conservation group, then I can report it to them immediately. That way the bird doesn't get swamped and the right people know about it. That's only really happened to me once, though.

ovenbird43 · Apr 8, 2020

paintedSnipe said:
It seems like a lot of people are still posting somewhat unusual stuff on eBird. Does anyone use that here? For example, I subscribe to the 'rare bird alert' email on eBird and I get all kinds of crazy stuff, but definitely not on the level of mega-rarity. Many of those unusual birds are blocked by eBird anyway from showing up...but I understand that doesn't cover vagrants, just endangered birds.

An option I like, which isn't really that much related to the coronavirus, is just wait to report until months have passed. At the same time, if the bird has a conservation group, then I can report it to them immediately. That way the bird doesn't get swamped and the right people know about it. That's only really happened to me once, though.

I think the ebird alerts only cover the previous week, so if you were to wait a week to submit a rare bird then no alerts would go out. That's probably what I would do if I found something of sufficient interest in my area that there would be strong temptation for others to chase it.

Mark Batten · Apr 8, 2020

Doing a local patch close to home for the last five weeks. A few common migrants and the hope of a fly over raptor. I would like to know what is around as passage does make you look a little harder and gives you hope of a surprise bird.

Most appear to be playing by the rules. However, there is always one or two who can not help themselves, whilst telling everybody else how to behave https://lgrebirds.wordpress.com

Britseye · Apr 8, 2020

Ninety five percent sure I've just seen a train spotter lurking in a field adjacent to the train I'm whizzing up to the North East on having been 'rescued' from the Gambia yesterday. Anorak, notebook, pen... Funny, I've only ever seen one once before. Maybe there's thousands of them and they don't 'stand out' in normal circs? Wonder if their community is going through same existential self assessment as ours and he's one of the pariahs?

Richard Prior · Apr 8, 2020

Britseye said:
Ninety five percent sure I've just seen a train spotter lurking in a field adjacent to the train I'm whizzing up to the North East on having been 'rescued' from the Gambia yesterday. Anorak, notebook, pen... Funny, I've only ever seen one once before. Maybe there's thousands of them and they don't 'stand out' in normal circs? Wonder if their community is going through same existential self assessment as ours and he's one of the pariahs?

Probably right Graham!
I believe trainspotters have declined since the end of steam at the same rate as the Turtle Dove

Andy Adcock · Apr 8, 2020

Richard Prior said:
Probably right Graham!
I believe trainspotters have declined since the end of steam at the same rate as the Turtle Dove

I regularly see 'bus spotters' outside the depot in Nottingham.

I new a bloke who took fire engine numbers and one day, on the way back from a twitch, I woke in the passenger seat of his car, totally alone. On looking around I spotted him, on tip-toe, looking through the window of a fire station and furiously scribbling numbers.

The same bloke had a list, in a specialist book, of all the real ales and malt whiskies he'd sampled and if we ever over nighted, he'd choose a pub from his 'where to watch' guide, based on which one stocked any real ales he 'needed'.

And as part of our social contract, if he took me anywhere, I'd have to sit with a notepad and pen on my lap and note the name on any, passing Stobart truck, now that is OCD.

Farnboro John · Apr 8, 2020

The ones that have really changed with technology are the plane spotters. Even the old boys now sit at the end of the Farnborough runway with their Ipads and tablets, all watching ADSBExchange, and as each aircraft comes over at 41,000 feet at the head of a contrail streaming back twenty miles, they hop out glance, jump back in, tick it off in their airline fleet directory latest edition and go back to sipping coffee. Read the number directly off an aircraft? you must be kidding - how very 20th century! (Admittedly they do still lean their scopes on the car roof to knock off the parked aircraft over by the tower. Tripod? Never heard of it!)

And yet it's an undeniable temptation: stuck at home and photographing anything I can get at from the back garden (you do not wander round the Prospect Estate with expensive optics!) if I've found from chimping that I can't read a reg from the photo I've dived indoors and lit up said ADSBExchange….

John

Andy Adcock · Apr 9, 2020

Any way to check military movements post flight?

Had an enormous and very loud aicraft over yesrday in Nottingham. It was very high but so loud that everone was looking up. I was out with the baby so no bins but I'm wonderiong C17?

My wife saw it from somewhere else and described a tail shape that fits a C17.

We don't see much (any) military movement here so anything like this is interesting to me.

Farnboro John · Apr 9, 2020

andyadcock said:
Any way to check military movements post flight?

Had an enormous and very loud aicraft over yesrday in Nottingham. It was very high but so loud that everone was looking up. I was out with the baby so no bins but I'm wonderiong C17?

My wife saw it from somewhere else and described a tail shape that fits a C17.

We don't see much (any) military movement here so anything like this is interesting to me.

It could be, but it could also be any of the ex-Russian cargo types used mostly by East European cargo lines - the IL-76 tail shape fits, it seems to be a favourite and they turn up at UK airports occasionally. But the RAF is moving stuff around in support of COVID-19 response so it could also be them. The C-17s I've noticed on ADSB have all been headed SE at 24000 feet or so - long haul I guess....

John

Suppression vs reporting; birders’ obligations during lockdown. (1 Viewer)

Poor Judge of Pasta.

Used to be well known! 😎

Well-known member

Worst person on Birdforum

Well-known member

Worst person on Birdforum

Well-known member

Worst person on Birdforum

Well-known member

Worst person on Birdforum

Well-known member

Member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Halfway up an Alp

Worst person on Birdforum

Well-known member

Worst person on Birdforum

Well-known member

Similar threads

Users who are viewing this thread