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Bunting (?) seen in France (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter neilwright
- Start date
Simon Wates
Well-known member
female Cirl Bunting
neilwright
Member
Many thanks Simon
bitterntwisted
Graham Howard Shortt
Cirl or yellowhammer. I think Simon is right but I can't see anything on show in the photo that makes it certain. What did I miss?
Simon Wates
Well-known member
Not much I'm sure - this bird shows plenty of contrast around the head markings (some don't so much - post breeding birds?) and I think the broad rather warm edges to the upperparts in general favour Cirl. My ID suggestion is mainly based on a first impression - it just looks like a Cirl to me.
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
Ditto to Cirl; female Y'hammer is surely never that dark-marked.
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
I hope this post doesnt come out as an offense or too pedantic, but I cant resist:
I agree its a juvenile Cirl Bunting, please note against adult female at this time (late june):
fresh wings and the following points in the head pattern:
-clear all whitish throat contrasting with yellow-buffish ear-coverts and supercilium (throat normally (at least partially) yellowish in adult female)
-very dark eye- and moustachial stripe that are eve darker than the lateral crown stripe (all three are usually the same colour and darkness in adult female). I think, this is what you described as "this bird shows plenty of contrast around the head markings (some don't so much - post breeding birds?) ", Simon?
-distinct paler median crown stripe running down the neck
-a "soft pale area near the base of the bill, this was mentionend as an id-criterea of juvenile Cirl Buntings by Andrew Cole in his book "In search of the Cirl Bunting"
I agree its a juvenile Cirl Bunting, please note against adult female at this time (late june):
fresh wings and the following points in the head pattern:
-clear all whitish throat contrasting with yellow-buffish ear-coverts and supercilium (throat normally (at least partially) yellowish in adult female)
-very dark eye- and moustachial stripe that are eve darker than the lateral crown stripe (all three are usually the same colour and darkness in adult female). I think, this is what you described as "this bird shows plenty of contrast around the head markings (some don't so much - post breeding birds?) ", Simon?
-distinct paler median crown stripe running down the neck
-a "soft pale area near the base of the bill, this was mentionend as an id-criterea of juvenile Cirl Buntings by Andrew Cole in his book "In search of the Cirl Bunting"
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Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
Agreed - face pattern doesn’t fit YH (nor the white tips just about visible on MCs, nor ‘broken’ lines of streaking on the mantle)
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Is it still there? 
skatebirder
Well-known member
Is it still there?
Well if it is, it ain't a juvenile now 😁
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
:-O
Just realised this bird was correctly ID’d 4 years ago !! - Why on earth it was resurrected is anybodies’ guess! :eek!:
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
Alexander must be feeling bored
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
Sorry to all, if my post came out the wrong way. Please note, that the bird was correctly identified, but not correctly aged: its not a female in my opinion, but a juvenile bird. I have seen that birdforum threads remain and I suppose they are a welcome and usefull addition to any field guide, at least for me it is.
For example, one of the most interesting threads (together with the paintings by John Cantelo and the Arctic Tern thread and some others) for me is this: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=380984.) I learned so much from these and sure will use them as a reference in the future.
Before someone says it: yes, it can be a juvenile female.
For example, one of the most interesting threads (together with the paintings by John Cantelo and the Arctic Tern thread and some others) for me is this: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=380984.) I learned so much from these and sure will use them as a reference in the future.
Before someone says it: yes, it can be a juvenile female.
Richard Prior
Halfway up an Alp
I find your interventions always helpful Alexander, at 68 with 60 years’ birding under my belt I’m still learning!
Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
Ok since it was me that questioned why this old thread was reactivated, my thoughts are this:
If an ID was clearly the wrong conclusion then raising it as a new query is fair enough but I think there are very few if those in BF’s ID forum! Sure there’s a ton of us, with the experience or expertise that could add further identification criteria and comments to old threads and resurrect those too, we would probably look impressive in doing so - we could go through all the old ID threads and age the birds concerned and in this respect, Alex’s post is quite informative as are many members contributions to the ID threads. However, presumably there’s a time sensitive message attached to these old threads for a reason? Rather than potentially clogging up the ID forums with regurgitating old threads (and therefore ‘pushing down’ new posts from current ID inquiries), it may be better just to ask for the old thread to be added to the Q&A sticky section of the ID forum if one feels a thread has instructive benefit. Adding further general identifying features (that weren’t necessary to ID the bird initially) to the Opus descriptions might also be a good idea.
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Deb Burhinus
Used to be well known! 😎
We are all still learning Richard! - I personally have learnt a lot from incredibly experienced birders like Lou, Jan, Tom, Roland, Ralph M, Graham W, John A, just to name a few and Birdforum is really blessed to have such a fantastic level of participation - it pulls us all up to a higher level of skills!
MJB
Well-known member
You're a mere stripling, Richard! The joy of getting to my age is that you can learn again all the bits you've forgotten, time and time again!:-O
MJB
Alexander Stöhr
Well-known member
I thought the wrong age was some kind of wrong conclusion. I know, google algorithms vary from country to country, but if you google for id-problems with latin or english names, than (newer and older) threads from birdforum id section are regular among the first or second page in the result.
So I think its usefull to get an id corrected (might it be the wrong species, age, or sex), even in an old thread.
I must admit that I havent looked much at the Q&A sticky section of the ID forum before, I will have a look at this.
I have looked at the Opus section for several species before, but I got the impression, that the descriptions there doesnt go into detail, but give a general overwiew about a species, including aspects about distribution, diet, ecology, behaviour etc. and of course pictures of different plumages. If all the id-relevant information is uploaded there, than the Opus pages are shifted towards an id-book. I dont know, if this wanted here.
I find it more use-/helpfull, when a specific information is discussed at/on an actual picture/bird.
And more, when searching for a relevant id problem, a good addition to the know field guides and books is a google search. I have tried this in comparison with the birdforum search before, and found the google search often better than the search here.
Another thought: I find the idea here, to present threads that are similar to the
actual a good idea. Like you, Deb, I have learned much from members and old threads, some many years old. I hope they never get deleted!
