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Hylocharis chrysura platensis (1 Viewer)

Taphrospilus

Taphrospilus

Well-known member
Without having seen...

Olivério Mário de Oliveira Pinto, Resultados ornithológicos de uma excursão pelo oeste de São Paulo e sul de Mato Grosso, Revista do Museu Paulista, 1931, 17:689–826
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...especially p. 735 I have a question on etymology. As per now the key tells us:

platensis
Río de la Plata, Argentina. The Spanish Vice-royalty of Río de la Plata was roughly equivalent to modern Argentina, Uruguay and Paraguay.
● Buenos Aires; ex “Roitelet de Buenos-Ayres” of d’Aubenton 1765-1781, pl. 730 (Cistothorus)
● Buenos Aires; ex “Emberise à cinq couleurs” of de Buffon 1770-1783, and “Plata Bunting” of Latham 1783 (Embernagra).
● Isla La Plata, Manaví, Ecuador (subsp. Mimus longicaudatus).
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I am not sure Río de la Plata fits to a humminbird present in south Brasil. What I know is plata means silver in spanish. Is there some similar word in latin/greek? Or is really the Río de la Plata the etymological origin of Hylocharis chrysura platensis? Maybe an explanation here?
 
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https://books.google.com/books?id=-F4XAQAAIAAJ&q="Os+exemplares+de+Itaquy,"
Os exemplares de Itaquy, embora menos caracterizados, fazem inclinar-me pela hypothese de pertencerem os do Rio Grande do Sul á mesma subespecie platina, para a qual proponho a denominação de Hylocharis chrysura platensis. Não havendo sido confirmadas as suppostas differenças entre as aves bolivianas e as do Paraguay, H. ruficollis mascurelli Hartert cae na synonymia de H. c. chrysura.
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Higher up on the same page, there are measurements of various specimens, including some from Argentina -- in any case Buenos Aires and La Plata -- e.g.: https://books.google.com/books?redir_esc=y&id=-F4XAQAAIAAJ&q=la+plata+carlos

We'd need to find out what 'platina' would have meant to a Brazilian in 1931...
The basin of the river ? https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/8nucgm/rio_de_la_plata_river_plate_basin_10471130/ (But that would seem to include Paraguay, and he did not include Paraguayan birds in his subespecie platina...)
 
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Another excerpt -- https://books.google.com/books?id=xYc0UPx9hjEC&q="Comquanto" :
Comquanto não disponha de material topotypico, apoio-me no testemunho de E. Naumburg, que afirma pertencerem as aves de Matto Grosso e São Paulo á mesma raça das do Paraguay. Convenho com a mesma autora em que os exemplares argentinos differenciamse bem distinctamente dos brasileiros para merecerem ser considerados subespecie particular. Afóra as suas maiores dimensões, com particularidade as do bico, differem elles ainda pela tonalidade intensamente bronzea do verde, que na especie typica é antes doirado, pela porção preta do bico mais restricta á ponta de ambas as maxillas, e principalmente pelas partes inferiores mais ou menos rufescentes em toda a sua extensão, á semelhança do mento.
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So here, he apparently wants to separate an Argentinian race. Could 'platino / -a' merely be another way to say 'argentino / -a' ? (Etymologycally, both words mean the same thing.)
 
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and continues with...

Como subsidio util ao estudo das variedades d'esta especie, dou a seguir a tabella das medidas tomadas em exemplares de varias proveniencias: S. Paulo : Aza Cauda Bico N. 4464, do, Avanhandava (R. Tieté), Janeiro de 1904 52mm. 29mm. 18mm. A/2 N. 5830, os, Rio Feio, 23 — VII–1905 52 30 18 N. 5166, G . Itapura, VIII –904, 55 30 1/2 20 N. 4462, d". Avanhandava, I–904, N. 3168, Q, Rincão, 27 — II – 90i
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etc pp.

As well I am wondering why the used Hylocharis chrysura lessoni nearly 100 years after René Primevère Lessons death. Must be in...

Olivério Mário de Oliveira Pinto, Eurico Alves de Camargo: Lista anotada de aves colecionadas nos limites occidentais do estado do Parana. In: Papéis avulsos do Departamento de Zoologia. Band 12, 1955, S. 215–234.
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https://books.google.com/books?id=4aQfAQAAIAAJ&dq=lessoni
Afigura-se-nos apesar disso pouco provável possam pertencer à raça boliviana as populações sudeste-brasileiras de que são exemplos os espécimes do Rio Paracaí; consequentemente, como não aparece na sinonímia da espécie nenhum nome aplicável restritivamente a estes últimos, propomos seja a nova subespécie denominada Hylocharis chrysura lessoni, em consideração pelo fato de que a ela deveriam provàvelmente pertencer os exemplares brasileiros referidos por Lesson (Hist. Naturelle des Colibris, p. 107, pl. 4) sob o nome de Shaw.
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In a 1818 English Cyclopedia says Platina means little silver in Spanish or platinum.
The Cyclopædia, Or, Universal Dictionary of Arts, Sciences, and ..., Volume 27
 
Taphrospilus said:
I am not sure Río de la Plata fits to a humminbird present in south Brasil. What I know is plata means silver in spanish. Is there some similar word in latin/greek? Or is really the Río de la Plata the etymological origin of Hylocharis chrysura platensis? Maybe an explanation here?
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Wikipedia says:

Wikipedia said:
The Río de la Plata basin, more often called the River Plate basin in scholarly writings, sometimes called the Platine basin or Platine region, is the 3,170,000-square-kilometre (1,220,000 sq mi) hydrographical area in South America that drains to the Río de la Plata. It includes areas of southeastern Bolivia, southern and central Brazil, the entire country of Paraguay, most of Uruguay, and northern Argentina.
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And it also says:

Wikipedia said:
The Viceroyalty was established in 1776 from several former Viceroyalty of Perú dependencies that mainly extended over the Río de la Plata Basin, roughly the present-day territories of Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Paraguay and Uruguay, extending inland from the Atlantic Coast.
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So "southern Brazil" fits well into either of those concepts. And I believe that "platino/platina" would be the Spanish and Portuguese versions of the English word "Platine". It's also possible that in Spanish and Portuguese those words could refer to just the Plata river as well as to the whole river basin.
 
Paul Clapham said:
It's also possible that in Spanish and Portuguese those words could refer to just the Plata river as well as to the whole river basin.
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Based on how Pinto used of the term, it may have meant something intermediate to him.

In his text, he starts (my post #4) saying he agrees with Naumburg that birds from Matto Grosso and São Paulo are the same race as in Paraguay (= nominate) but that those from Argentine are different enough to warrant being recognized as a separate subspecies. Then (after having listed measurements of a number of specimens from various provenances -- Martin's post #5) he adds that the birds from Itaquy, although less characteristic, make him inclined to regard the population of Rio Grande do Sul as part of the same "Platine subspecies", which he proposes to name platensis; and finally he notes that, as he finds no differences between Bolivian and Paraguayan birds, mascurelli Hartert falls in the synonymy of nominate chrysura (my post #3).

The population he presents as different in this discussion starts with "exemplares argentinos", to become a "subespecie platina" with the addition of birds from (non-coastal) Rio Grande do Sul (keeping everything from further N excluded). This is obviously more inclusive than "just" the Río de la Plata itself, but still only a fraction of the whole basin -- which would include, i.a., all of Paraguay, thus the type locality of the nominate race. (In fact, the range of this species as a whole doesn't extend that much beyond the Río de la Plata basin.)
 
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l_raty said:
https://books.google.com/books?id=4aQfAQAAIAAJ&dq=lessoni
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Which refers to here. Definitely RP Lesson. Thank's.

l_raty said:
https://books.google.com/books?id=-F4XAQAAIAAJ&q="Os+exemplares+de+Itaquy,"

Os exemplares de Itaquy, embora menos caracterizados, fazem inclinar-me pela hypothese de pertencerem os do Rio Grande do Sul á mesma subespecie platina, para a qual proponho a denominação de Hylocharis chrysura platensis. Não havendo sido confirmadas as suppostas differenças entre as aves bolivianas e as do Paraguay, H. ruficollis mascurelli Hartert cae na synonymia de H. c. chrysura.
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P.S. But H. ruficollis mascurelli must be Hylocharis ruficollis maxwelli Hartert from here or Hartert, E. (1900): Trochilidae. — Das Tierreich 9, Berlin p. 67.
 
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l_raty said:
Based on how Pinto used of the term, it may have meant something intermediate to him.
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Incidentally, isn't platina in Portugese actually a bit odd if derived directly from the river name ? The river is Rio da Prata in this language.
Edit - No, they say Bacia platina for the basin, apparently -- so this must be OK as an adjective.
 
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