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Does Leica not stand behind their product? (1 Viewer)

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I was thinking about buying some Leica binoculars and then I read this review on Amazon.com while looking at them. It changed my mind about buying Leicas. I would not buy binoculars from a company that doesn't stand behind their product and if their customer service is this poor. Does Leica really have this poor of warranty service? Here is the review:

Consider this, March 9, 2004
Reviewer: "rahan_guitars" (Houston, Texas United States) -
I want to tell you about my experience with Leica Binoculars. I purchased the Trinovid 10 X 42s back in the mid 90s for about $1,000.00. I thought they were the best binoculars I had ever owned. Last year, in November of 2003 the binoculars broke. I did not drop them or handle them any differently than I had the last 8 years of owning them. I always carried them in a specially padded backpack that I modified specifically for optics like my binoculars and cameras and such. I thought, no problem, they have a lifetime guarantee... So I thought.
I went to the store where I had purchased them. They gave me the phone number to Leica-Camera Co. I called and got a recording telling me to write down the problem and where to send them, I did. A couple of weeks later I received a repair estimate in the mail for a bit over $400.00.

I called them up and talked to a service rep. She told me that because I did not send in my warranty card when I purchased the binoculars they were not covered under the warranty. I told her I never send those things in because I understand they are a source for mailing lists which are sold and I get too much junk mail and spam as it is. Of course this did not sway her in the least. So I asked if I paid for the repair would I then be in their data base and therefore the binoculars would be covered should they break again. She told me, No; they would still not be covered. The repair would be warranted for 90 days and after that I would again be on my own.

I declined their estimate and was told they would send them back the following week. After that I wrote a letter to Leica GM telling of the situation and asking that they step up to the plate and do the right thing... repair my expensive binoculars that I got based on a lifetime guarantee. This is the first time I have ever written a letter to a company official and not got a response. I heard nothing and 3 months went by. I thought, maybe they are not good communicators and maybe they have had them this long because they decided to fix them after all. I called them. I got a voicemail and asked about them. They never returned my call but about a week later they showed up in the mail. Still broken and useless.

I will not buy any more Leica products and I thought I would pass on my experience for anyone thinking of buying their products to consider.






Dennis
 
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Hmm. I thought federal law prohibited merchants from denying warranty service merely for not sending in a card. I am assuming you can prove where you bought them, to verify that they are not gray-market.
 
That was nothing but an unverifiable review that is absent critical details? What was the problem? What were the conditions of the original warranty with or without the registration card? Could the individual prove original ownership? The list is quite extensive.
 
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John Traynor said:
That was nothing but an unverifiable review that is absent critical details? What was the problem? What were the conditions of the original warranty with or without the registration card? Could the individual prove original ownership? The list is quite extensive.


Yes I guess there is some missing information but none the less a disturbing review. I guess you could contact the person who posted it on Amazon.com if you wanted some details. It kind of made me question Leica because I have also heard a few negative comments about their customer service on this forum. Since this is bad publicity for Leica it would be nice if we could get a response from them as to why they refused warranty service on these binoculars.

Dennis
 
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Dennis, if you have the binoculars registered, Leica offers the best warranty on the market today.
I know of several stories were Trinovids and Ultravids were badly damaged and Leica repaired them or replaced them.
 
Luca said:
Dennis, if you have the binoculars registered, Leica offers the best warranty on the market today.
I know of several stories were Trinovids and Ultravids were badly damaged and Leica repaired them or replaced them.
My wife's 10X42 trinovids (old style) developed a rattle. We took them to Leica in Milton Keynes and they found the problem, a screw that holds a prism had come loose, re-collimated them and did it all while we waited for free. They were not registered and at least 15 years old.
Regards, Pete
 
There are going to be differences in service between Leica, Uk and Leica, USA. The importers in the USA are basically independent and the written guarantees differ between the two countries. I have no idea of the status of Leica, UK, whether it is independent or a wholly owned subsidiary of Leica or something in between. In any case, I am happy to read of Pete's and Bob's good experience in the UK.

The last time I had dealings with Leica USA, is when I bought improved replacement eyecups for binocular which had been discontinued for about forty years. The price was outrageous, but I was happy to find the parts.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur :hi:
 
I am suspicious of the story that was given in the review. In my experience, when people go out of there way to insist just how perfect they have been in their handling of any object, person, etc., it usually is a big red flag that they are being "less than 100% honest."


With a quick "reading between the lines," I come up with the following - which seems more likely to me:

Guy wants a Leica binocular but, doesn't want to spend the $1000+ it will take to buy one from an authorized dealer.

He finds a gray market dealer who will sell him one for an eye-poppingly low price and jumps on the deal.

He doesn't send in the warranty card because he knows he can't get it serviced in the US as he bought from the gray market. He also doesn't want there to be any chance of alerting Leica to the presence of this particular dealer because that might somehow cause his source for great optics at cheap prices to dry up.

He uses the binocular hard, dropping it, scraping it across rocks, cleaning the lenses with rough tissue paper, etc.

When something does go wrong, he sends it in to be serviced but, the serial number alerts Leica that this is a product that was not sold from an authorized dealer and therefore has no warranty coverage (a issue about which most optics companies are very upfront with the public on websites, in company literature, etc. and one reason why they encourage people to buy from authorized dealers.)

Guy gets mad because he thinks Leica should take it in the a$$ for him anyway so, he posts a dishonest and inflammatory review in the most public place he can find, knowing that they won't be able to answer his complaint.
 
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Luca said:
Dennis, if you have the binoculars registered, Leica offers the best warranty on the market today.
I know of several stories were Trinovids and Ultravids were badly damaged and Leica repaired them or replaced them.



So in other words you have to make sure you register them when you buy the binoculars? This does restore my confidence in Leica.

Dennis
 
Interesting Analysis!

lucznik said:
I am suspicious of the story that was given in the review. In my experience, when people go out of there way to insist just how perfect they have been in their handling of any object, person, etc., it usually is a big red flag that they are being "less than 100% honest."


With a quick "reading between the lines," I come up with the following - which seems more likely to me:

Guy wants a Leica binocular but, doesn't want to spend the $1000+ it will take to buy one from an authorized dealer.

He finds a gray market dealer who will sell him one for an eye-poppingly low price and jumps on the deal.

He doesn't send in the warranty card because he knows he can't get it serviced in the US as he bought from the gray market. He also doesn't want there to be any chance of alerting Leica to the presence of this particular dealer because that might somehow cause his source for great optics at cheap prices to dry up.

He uses the binocular hard, dropping it, scraping it across rocks, cleaning the lenses with rough tissue paper, etc.

When something does go wrong, he sends it in to be serviced but, the serial number alerts Leica that this is a product that was not sold from an authorized dealer and therefore has no warranty coverage (a issue about which most optics companies are very upfront with the public on websites, in company literature, etc. and one reason why they encourage people to buy from authorized dealers.)

Guy gets mad because he thinks Leica should take it in the a$$ for him anyway so, he posts a dishonest and inflammatory review in the most public place he can find, knowing that they won't be able to answer his complaint.

Your analysis was quite interesting , as well as, amusing! I especially like the part about scraping them across the rocks. Perhaps there is alot of truth to it also.

Dennis
 
Your analysis was quite interesting , as well as, amusing! I especially like the part about scraping them across the rocks. Perhaps there is alot of truth to it also.

Dennis

I was in the camera/binocular business for 10 years and before that it was electronics for 20 years and they have similar warranty policies. Before the guy made a huge fuss he should have considered a few things. First of all it is not possible to get a Leica binocular from an unauthorized dealer unless Leica sold it to that dealer, in which case that would make them authorized. Somewhere in the chain of delivery between Leica and this consumer there must be an authorized dealer. If the authorized dealer sold the binocular to an unauthorized dealer, that isn't the fault of the guy who has the binoculars now.

More than likely the guy bought the binoculars used. I always found Leica binoculars grossly overpriced and I also found many other products of equal quality so even though I sold many Leica cameras in my day and have quite a few I collected, I didn't sell more than 3 or 4 pairs of Leica binoculars in 10 years as the only authorized Leica dealer in Kansas City, Missouri. On the other hand I sold dozens of pairs of Nikon SE and Zeiss Jena 1Q binoculars every year in spite of charging full price on both.

SO-o-o I can't quite remember if Leica's warranty is transferrable. If it is then there is no warranty registration card needed, that's US law, and US warranty law is something ALL dealers of products like Leica, Mamiya, Hasselblad, etc. are very familiar with. There is nothing to prevent a guy on vacation from buying a Leica binocular. He can say it was a binocular he bought from someone else. Leica is just trying to see if the guy will make a real problem for them. If so they will fix the binoculars. This is the sign of a very lousy distributor and any manufacturer that wuld tolerate a distributor like this also has to be totally uncaring about consumers and should be avoided.

So this guy should go to his local Consumers Protection office. Or he should write his congressman and have a nice staffer explain how to make Leica eat these expenses they are foisting on the guy. But if the Leica warranty is lifetime-NON-transferrable then it's just marketing hogwash and basically worthless. Most cars sold in the USA have a transferable warranty and the warranty is worth something. But like someone in this thread said, we don't know if this guy is real or if he owned Leica binoculars or what.

I do know this, if any Nikon item is still within the warranty period based on the date of manufacture for that serial number they fix it under warranty. And if the item has a defect they knew was common during warranty, but the item in question isn't still under warranty, Nikon usually either replaces the item for the cost of the warranty repair, or offers a complete refurb using newly designed parts for just the cost of the part needing repair. I have sold thousands of Nikon cameras and binoculars and they always did it for my customers. Of course Nikon makes products with different model numbers for different markets and they claim they have to send some things to Japan to be repaired because they don't stock the parts in the USA, so that really limits grey market camera sales in the USA, but not binoculars.

And so if I remember that certain binocular had a 25 year warranty and someone at a garage sale is offering this item for 10 dollars because it stopped working. I always buy them and send them to Nikon. They've fixed or refurbed every one so far because their warranties are transferrable.
 
Another report of bad Leica customer service.

ksbird/foxranch said:
I was in the camera/binocular business for 10 years and before that it was electronics for 20 years and they have similar warranty policies. Before the guy made a huge fuss he should have considered a few things. First of all it is not possible to get a Leica binocular from an unauthorized dealer unless Leica sold it to that dealer, in which case that would make them authorized. Somewhere in the chain of delivery between Leica and this consumer there must be an authorized dealer. If the authorized dealer sold the binocular to an unauthorized dealer, that isn't the fault of the guy who has the binoculars now.

More than likely the guy bought the binoculars used. I always found Leica binoculars grossly overpriced and I also found many other products of equal quality so even though I sold many Leica cameras in my day and have quite a few I collected, I didn't sell more than 3 or 4 pairs of Leica binoculars in 10 years as the only authorized Leica dealer in Kansas City, Missouri. On the other hand I sold dozens of pairs of Nikon SE and Zeiss Jena 1Q binoculars every year in spite of charging full price on both.

SO-o-o I can't quite remember if Leica's warranty is transferrable. If it is then there is no warranty registration card needed, that's US law, and US warranty law is something ALL dealers of products like Leica, Mamiya, Hasselblad, etc. are very familiar with. There is nothing to prevent a guy on vacation from buying a Leica binocular. He can say it was a binocular he bought from someone else. Leica is just trying to see if the guy will make a real problem for them. If so they will fix the binoculars. This is the sign of a very lousy distributor and any manufacturer that wuld tolerate a distributor like this also has to be totally uncaring about consumers and should be avoided.

So this guy should go to his local Consumers Protection office. Or he should write his congressman and have a nice staffer explain how to make Leica eat these expenses they are foisting on the guy. But if the Leica warranty is lifetime-NON-transferrable then it's just marketing hogwash and basically worthless. Most cars sold in the USA have a transferable warranty and the warranty is worth something. But like someone in this thread said, we don't know if this guy is real or if he owned Leica binoculars or what.

I do know this, if any Nikon item is still within the warranty period based on the date of manufacture for that serial number they fix it under warranty. And if the item has a defect they knew was common during warranty, but the item in question isn't still under warranty, Nikon usually either replaces the item for the cost of the warranty repair, or offers a complete refurb using newly designed parts for just the cost of the part needing repair. I have sold thousands of Nikon cameras and binoculars and they always did it for my customers. Of course Nikon makes products with different model numbers for different markets and they claim they have to send some things to Japan to be repaired because they don't stock the parts in the USA, so that really limits grey market camera sales in the USA, but not binoculars.

And so if I remember that certain binocular had a 25 year warranty and someone at a garage sale is offering this item for 10 dollars because it stopped working. I always buy them and send them to Nikon. They've fixed or refurbed every one so far because their warranties are transferrable.


Here is another report of poor Leica customer service. This was on the Excelsis Binocular Review site. You really never read this kind of stuff about Swarovski Customer service so it does make you wonder:

>As others have noted, these binoculars are superbly designed and are wonderful to look through, if you get the right pair. However, when I got my pair home I discovered two optical flaws in the unit -- both eyepieces had traces of printing on the coatings, which would not come off, and one of the prisms in the right tube had bubbles all over the coating, producing a noticeable hazy flare in certain conditions that hadn't been immediately obvious in the store. I immediately returned the binoculars to the retailer, who returned them to the Canadian distributor under the Passport Protection Plan. It has now been two and a half weeks since I took the binoculars back, no sign of a replacement unit yet in spite of repeated follow-up calls, and I am leaving tomorrow on the trip for which I had purchased these binoculars. For the money I paid for these binoculars, I expect both much better quality control at the factory and much prompter service from the distributor. I am very disappointed. I have never experienced this frustration nor disappointment with any other binoculars I have owned, by three other manufacturers, at prices a fraction of the price for the Leica unit. I would otherwise have given the Leica 8x32s a rating of 9 or a 10, but not after this experience - I think a rating of 5 is being generous.


Get the Nikon 8x32SE for 1/2 the price with better performance and almost no chromatic abberration.

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This thread has done nothing but trash an unknown poster and a reputable company based on nothing but pure, unadulterated speculation and fantasy. I hope the moderators do us all a favor and remove the embarrassment.

John Traynor
 
John Traynor said:
This thread has done nothing but trash an unknown poster and a reputable company based on nothing but pure, unadulterated speculation and fantasy. I hope the moderators do us all a favor and remove the embarrassment.

John Traynor

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
 
John Traynor said:
This thread has done nothing but trash an unknown poster and a reputable company based on nothing but pure, unadulterated speculation and fantasy. I hope the moderators do us all a favor and remove the embarrassment.

John Traynor

John
On this forum and elsewhere I have come across quite a few negative comments concerning Leica customer service. Before I invested in their binoculars I wanted to make sure that there was not a problem in this area. I don't think these people would make the effort to write these negative reviews if they were satisfied with Leica service. In my research I have NEVER found a negative comment about Swarovski or Nikon warranty service so it does to me cast a shadow on Leica's warranty service. Perhaps we should open the thread to include other brands.
If anybody has had experience with warranty service with Nikon, Swarovski, Zeiss, or Leica and would like to relate your experiences please do so negative or otherwise.

Dennis
 
John
On this forum and elsewhere I have come across quite a few negative comments concerning Leica customer service. Before I invested in their binoculars I wanted to make sure that there was not a problem in this area. I don't think these people would make the effort to write these negative reviews if they were satisfied with Leica service. In my research I have NEVER found a negative comment about Swarovski or Nikon warranty service so it does to me cast a shadow on Leica's warranty service. Perhaps we should open the thread to include other brands.
If anybody has had experience with warranty service with Nikon, Swarovski, Zeiss, or Leica and would like to relate your experiences please do so negative or otherwise.

Dennis

I have one direct, and one indirect experience.

Indirect first, an acquaintance left his Zeiss 8x20's out on his deck overnight and they were damaged by a heavy rainfall. These were not the current version, but a previous non-waterproof model (Design Selection?). He sent them in to Zeiss for repair and the bill was $400, nearly the price of a new one.

Direct, after 18 months my Leica Duovid's diopter adjustment no longer retained the adjustment when I changed magnification. I called Leica USA and described the problem to tech support and they said it needed to be sent in for repair. They transferred me to the warranty person and she looked up my information. She found the registration of my other four Leicas, but I had failed to send in the warranty card on the Duovids (they were a surprise Christmas present and in my excitement I never sent in the card). She said, "That might be a problem." I simply took them to my dealer who wrote a letter verifying that I was the original purchaser and the purchase date, he overnighted them to Leica, and two weeks later I received a letter from Leica that they were being repaired under warranty at no charge and should be back in four weeks. Six weeks later I received what appear to be a brand spanking new pair, sealed in plastic, inside a black velvet drawstring bag with "Leica Service" on it, all new accessories (strap, rain guard, case). The Duovids work perfectly. Oddly enough, there is no serial number on these binoculars, none that I can find.

Some random thoughts:

I have both Leica and Zeiss binoculars and I feel very comfortable taking my Leicas into any situation because of the no-fault warranty. I am much more protective of my Zeiss because their warranty doesn't cover damage.

Leica's warranty is not transferrable, while Zeiss' warranty is. This may be one reason Leica is a stickler about registration.

When I bought my Leica BA's the Passport no-fault warranty was only in force for the first three years, then it reverted to a regular defective parts and labor warranty like the Zeiss. In newer Leicas the Passport warranty is in effect for life (in the US, at least), not sure when they expanded the coverage. I've considered selling my 10x32 and 8x50 BAs and replacing them with Ulravids for the better warranty coverage, but for the price difference I'd be better off taking my chances and either paying for repair or replacing them if they are damaged.

Someone mentioned print on the coatings of their Leicas. I found that on my 8x50 BA's eyepieces -- it is an imprint of the raised print on the inside of the rubber rainguard. It wouldn't come off with the usual cleaning solutions, so I washed them in the kitchen sink with Dawn dishwashing detergent and the imprint came off leaving the coatings pristine. The imprint is tenacious but superficial.
 
laservet, your Leicas covered under the old 3 year Passport warranty are now warranteed for life, according to Leica. They made the lifetime warranty retroactive to those covered under the previous 3 year warranty.
 
BMR said:
laservet, your Leicas covered under the old 3 year Passport warranty are now warranteed for life, according to Leica. They made the lifetime warranty retroactive to those covered under the previous 3 year warranty.

Excellent! Thanks for the information!
 
ksbird/foxranch said:
On the other hand I sold dozens of pairs of Nikon SE and Zeiss Jena 1Q binoculars every year in spite of charging full price on both.

I was under the impression that all optical goods produced by VEB Carl Zeiss Jena could not be imported into the United States legally using the Zeiss Jena trademark, and the few binoculars which were legally imported under the "Aus Jena" brand never carried the "1Q" designation. If the binoculars you sold were gray market, I would hate to think of the warranty hassles.
 
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