gulls (2 Viewers)

Gentoo · Feb 6, 2008

JanJ got most of them. All but number three actually:

1. Western Gull wymani
2. Ring-Billed Gull 2nd winter
3. Ring-Billed Gull adult
2. Western Gull occidentalis

JANJ · Feb 6, 2008

Strange there though Gentoo with nr 3 instant impression was RBG. But then when you start to think to much at times and it gets messy

Nice images !

JanJ

lou salomon · Feb 6, 2008

wow, last one a superexposed WG, how did you get that, jan?

the hindpart post 230 is sth. more exotic that ringbill or caspian. i'll show you more of it tommorrow.

Gentoo · Feb 6, 2008

The exposure wasn't too far off, northern westerns are about like that. Here's another shot of the same bird:

http://www.pbase.com/shonn/image/92405348

This bird returns to Sea World every October and disappears sometime in March.

lou salomon · Feb 7, 2008

the ones i saw in san fran looked slightly darker to me but that's 16 winters ago and i wasn't looking at them with particular interest. actually i knew nothing more than my peterson guide and my (not so sharpened) eye told me. i even didn't know about the frequency of hybrids with GWG. but they looked lighter mantled than the LBBGs i was used to see (of intermedius/graellsii mostly dutch intergrades i think). well, there's no doubt about it being am occidentalis. aren't wymani sometimes darker than your 1st wingpic?

Gentoo · Feb 7, 2008

lou salomon said:
the ones i saw in san fran looked slightly darker to me but that's 16 winters ago and i wasn't looking at them with particular interest. actually i knew nothing more than my peterson guide and my (not so sharpened) eye told me. i even didn't know about the frequency of hybrids with GWG. but they looked lighter mantled than the LBBGs i was used to see (of intermedius/graellsii mostly dutch intergrades i think). well, there's no doubt about it being am occidentalis. aren't wymani sometimes darker than your 1st wingpic?

A common misconception but generally no. Wymani are about the same shade as graellsii for the most part. There is a cline within Western Gulls as well. The step is said to be in central California but many birds in the San Francisco bay area, show a range of mantel shades with many matching size and shade of wymani even though it's not supposed to occur north of Monterey, which I think is just their northern most breeding area and not necessarily the stop of it's range.

Not that this does much good here but I'll mention it anyway; size and jizz also help with distinguishing these two subspecies. Occidentalis are big 'ol birds, being the same size or even slightly larger than Herring Gulls. Wymani averages smaller with some small females matching LBBG in overall appearance, although still maintaining Westerns primary projection and of course the pink legs. With experience, voice is also a clue. Occidentalis' long call is slightly slower in tempo but still with short notes and usually lacks the slight dry undertone. A few wymani have deep gruff voices almost matching Yellow-Footed Gulls.

Ok I'll stop now, sorry lol.

Gentoo · Feb 7, 2008

Let's make this interesting. Can you guess who's eyes these are?

Gentoo · Feb 7, 2008

and one more

Howard King · Feb 7, 2008

Gentoo - in answer to eye above a simple No - however I shall be in the states this summer Detriot and New York can you suggest which field guides I should have with me.

But back to Gulls here is the front and back of one taken last week here in Bahrain

Gentoo · Feb 7, 2008

Howard King said:
Gentoo - in answer to eye above a simple No - however I shall be in the states this summer Detriot and New York can you suggest which field guides I should have with me.

But back to Gulls here is the front and back of one taken last week here in Bahrain

Field guidewise, I would suggest the Sibley and/or the National Geographic. The latter is updated every two or so years.

Ok, these European and Asian first winters are my biggest weakness. I seem to one again want to say heuglini. There seems to be some dark gray coming in on those scapulars. As far as the proper pattern for heuglini, that I couldn't tell you just yet. Structually, it seems good for heuglin's or even barabensis. There is a prominent gony angle which makes me feel an armenicus to it and the gray on the scapulars seems good for armenian as well. Barabensis usually gives me an impression of a more slender bill.

So for now, I am narrowing it down to armenicus or heuglini.

lou salomon · Feb 7, 2008

armenicus has a more blunt tipped bill, this one is too pointed. also the rather fresh plumage especially coverts suggest a more northern taxon. heuglini or barabensis. 1st winters often indistinguishable. heuglini favoured by the fresh looking coverts and the dark overall impression of scapulars. 1st winter heuglini seems to be very variable in plumage. bill is on the short end of heuglini, barabensis would fit better in this respect i think.

lou salomon · Feb 7, 2008

merely guesswork on those eyes:

1. ringbill
2. GWG (looks awfull!)
3. herring
4. california
5. western
6. herring with well pigmented iris or 3rd winter western

Gentoo · Feb 7, 2008

Lou, you did pretty well on those eyes actually:

1.yes
2.yes (sorry for the awful pic)
3.yes
4.yes
5.no (check the orbital)
6.no but close

Howard King · Feb 7, 2008

Post 249

I had this one down as barabensis - but this was based on a compaison of bill shape with identified adults of the form

JANJ · Feb 7, 2008

The 1st winter barabensis/heuglini in post 249 Howard is I think barabensis/heuglini, prefer not to speculate.
Some might perhaps think the short lookng bill would indicate barabensis, but don´t be so sure of that, heuglini might match (males larger billed than females).

http://www.magikbirds.com/image.asp?title_id=644&show_thumbnails=False

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/index.html

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/index.html

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/index.html

http://www23.tok2.com/home/jgull/OmanGulls/index.html

Nice images! More of this!

JanJ

Howard King · Feb 8, 2008

four times the chance -

lou salomon · Feb 8, 2008

hard with the backlight but all look to me like heuglini, 2 ad at least, a 2nd or 3rd winter (in front) and a poss. 3rd/4th winter in the middle.

nobody has made an attempt to this, understandable:
http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=107005

have you seen this set of impressing fight pics of GBBG on tarsiger? http://www.tarsiger.com/images/komi/Larmar_Porvoo_2007_8.jpg
http://www.tarsiger.com/images/komi/Larmar_Porvoo_2007_4.jpg

gentoo, i've noticed that extreme swollen red orbital in eye no. 5 but it didn't take me further. is it a california gull too? and the last one may be a western gull.

here's an open wing of ..? (same as the hindpart mystery) - i think there's only 1 species with that pattern.

Gentoo · Feb 8, 2008

Lou, you're right about that last one now. The golden colored orbital is the best key for Western. Not the orange yellow of Herring but certainly can be distinctive once you know it.

As for number 5, I'll give you all one last guess. Not a California but good guess considering. I pass on that wing lou. lol

lou salomon · Feb 9, 2008

more (almost all) of the still not solved uniform **** coloured bird:

Gentoo · Feb 9, 2008

Hartlaub's Gull?

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