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Best Scope Money Can Buy? (1 Viewer)

Hello everyone,
I just wanted to ask that if money and weight for a telescope was no objective then what would be the best scope out there to buy right now?
I think i have narrowed it down to two scopes
a) Swarovski ATX 95mm with the 30-70x eye piece
or
b) Kowa TSN-883 with the 1.6x extender

Really appreciate any advice anyone could pass on with these two scopes and also the best place to purchase one, and even if it might be best to wait until bird fair to have a proper look through them both? So far i have only looked through the Swarovski but was thoroughly impressed but the more i tried to research is online on various blogs and review sites the more i kept on seeing the Kowa scope.

Im currently using the Opticron HR 80 GA ED which has and still is been great but just feel ready for the step up to one of the best scopes out there

Thanks once again for any advice!
Happy Birding!
 
Hi there and a warm welcome to you from those of us on staff here at BirdForum :t:

We’re glad you found us and please join in wherever you like ;)

I've moved your thread to the "Spotting Scope" section of the Forum and I have also subscribed you to this tread so you will be notified by email when someone replies ;)
 
Maybe a Televue, Astrophysics or other high end astro refractor, although not waterproof.
If weight and price don't matter.
 
Hi PS and welcome to Birdforum. Though I've only looked through them briefly, the big Kowa and Swarovski were absolutely brilliant. I'd want quite a bit of time, side by side, to be able to pick a favourite.


Rich
 
Hi,

first of all, welcome to BF. My pick would be the Kowa, based on the examples of 883 and ATX I have looked through so far.

Joachim
 
hey guys thanks for the warm welcome to bird forum and responses to my question, my deadline for a new scope would be around autumn migration, checking distant mud flats for rare waders and then the sea watches in september so i think it might be best to wait until bird fair and spend some time with the top scopes and maybe wait for the zeiss one to see what thats like also, really appreciate your comments though!
thanks very much
 
Hi,

regarding the Zeiss, there is a long thread in the Zeiss subforum. Hopefully it will be available in summer - it uses a radically different approach than most current spotting scopes.
The advantage is a single high afov over the whole zoom range, the disadvantage being stopping down the scope at lower magnifications.

EDIT: reading this again, it's not worded optimally - in the usual sense stopping down means reducing objective aperture while leaving focal length constant and thus reaching a more relaxed focal ratio. In the Zeiss Harpia zoom objective the focal length is decreasing even faster than the clear aperture - this means that at low magnification the scope is actually quite a bit faster at f3.0 than at max magnification with f5.6.

This will be great if you use lower magnifications for surveying and want a large tfov - less so, if you use low magnification because the light is failing and you want a bigger exit pupil for a brighter image. As usual, there is no silver bullet, just tradeoffs...

It is probably a good idea to go to a bird show when the Zeiss is out, so you can try them in person - bonus points if you find a good example at a show and can buy it afterwards at a reduced demo price.
There is also other decisions to be made on your side - straight vs angled, normal two speed focus wheel like in the Kowa or the huge ring like Swaro and Zeiss.

Joachim
 
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Maybe a Televue, Astrophysics or other high end astro refractor, although not waterproof.
If weight and price don't matter.

Indeed. I'll throw Takahashi into the mix as well. About a 150mm f7 should resolve feathers pretty well.
If weight and price (or mobility) don't matter.

Seriously though, a high quality 85 or 90mm astro refractor will most likely crush anything called a spotting scope out there. An erecting prism will be the weakest link so to get the most out of it your image will be upside down and backwards with a 90 degree diagonal. Lots of eyepieces to choose from though!
 
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Kowa or the new Zeiss Harpia. Joachim summed up the Harpia neatly and its a compelling instrument. The low magnification of 22/23x is great for getting on birds in flight and scanning over mud flats, big reed beds and water. It will no doubt be at Bird Fair.

Lee
 
About that new Zeiss Harpia...
What I don't get is why are they offering the 85mm? Seriously?

The 85 is but 1" shorter, 37mm less focal length, $300 less, and 5 oz lighter.
To all that, I say so what? Go for the 95mm. They're both heavy and expensive, you're already into the pound and left the penny, so to speak. You're going to skimp at this point?

If they made a 75mm scope to go with the big one, I could understand that design ethos. Maybe.
 
About that new Zeiss Harpia...
What I don't get is why are they offering the 85mm? Seriously?


The 85 is but 1" shorter, 37mm less focal length, $300 less, and 5 oz lighter.
To all that, I say so what? Go for the 95mm. They're both heavy and expensive, you're already into the pound and left the penny, so to speak. You're going to skimp at this point?

If they made a 75mm scope to go with the big one, I could understand that design ethos. Maybe.

I agree that they are very close in specs, and that it's a bit strange.
But I guess Swaro have been setting the size standard with the ATX scopes.
My initial response was why bother with the 95mm Harpia though.
A 75mm version would have been of more interest to me.
 
Hi Kevin,
There are some good quality 2 inch fit erecting prisms, which will take larger eyepieces.
There is little loss of quality.

My 317mm aperture Dall Kirkham would do well on distant birds.

John Wall, who recently passed away made a 32 inch aperture Dialyt refractor.. That should get one close.
He invented the Crayford focuser, and gave it to the world patent free.
He worked for Vickers as a designer.
He used to test his optics on terrestrial targets 10 miles away.
Horace Dall used targets up to 17 miles.
I used a clock tower at 4.7 miles.

As you say, a good astro scope will probably be superior to any spotting scope.

A colleague recently bought a 120mm Esprit triplet refractor. This should be good also and not that big.
Any observatory long focus 6 inch refractor would be good.
 
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Indeed. I'll throw Takahashi into the mix as well. About a 150mm f7 should resolve feathers pretty well.
If weight and price (or mobility) don't matter.

Seriously though, a high quality 85 or 90mm astro refractor will most likely crush anything called a spotting scope out there. An erecting prism will be the weakest link so to get the most out of it your image will be upside down and backwards with a 90 degree diagonal. Lots of eyepieces to choose from though!

I've used various 76mm-92mm Televue, Takahashi and Astro-Physics astronomical refractors as birding scopes over the last thirty years. I'm so accustomed to right and left being reversed that I only get confused about which way to move a scope when I look through a regular spotter. The very best astronomical refractor specimens I've used are a bit better than the best specimens of any spotters I've seen, but there's considerable overlap in the real world of sample variation.

I've been semi-seriously in the market for a high end spotting scope for the last few years, mainly for waterproofing and reduced weight, but I haven't found a design that does everything I want. In spite of that I could be tempted by a really good individual unit of the Kowa 883 or the Swarovski ATX 95, but none of the units I've tested has been good enough to close the deal. I don't even need to see the Zeiss Harpia to know I'm not interested in a scope with restricted aperture at low to mid magnification. At the moment I'm also waiting for Bird Fair in case a larger aperture replacement for the aging Kowa 883 appears.
 
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Well seriously, if weight isn’t a problem, then your best solution is not a spotting scope, it’s binoculars.
http://apm-telescopes-englisch.shopgate.com/item/333631333431

I’ve used these for sea watches and it’s a much better experience than single eye.
Water proof and virtually any eyepiece you’d care to try.
If you love monovision then low power in one side for finder and high power in other for close up - instantly.

Really, APM has a terrific reputation in the astro community and these are great if you’re willing to think a little beyond the usual.

Best,
Jerry
 
Hi Jerry,
The 20kg weight of the 75mm binocular must be the shipping weight or with a tripod.

What is the real weight?

Best regards.
 
Hi,

3.6 kg or 7.9 pound. But why stop at 70mm... they have a nice 120mm pair.

http://www.apm-telescopes.de/en/bin...inocular-125-eyepiece-holder.html?info=361341

Fun aside, my ED120 is at the bedroom window looking at the bird conservatory at the other river bank. 120x through window glass is fine most of the days... With window open only seeing is the limit...

Joachim

Yes, I have an 883 and a Leica 65. Unless I’m hiking or require serious mobility, the APMs get first call. Around $2K new with 26x eyepiece. Waterproof, a huge range of eyepieces and collimation is available to the end user.

Best,
Jerry
 
Thanks Joachim.

Volume weight sounds like something on a ship, deadweight maybe, which is a volume not a weight.

Yes, that is my type of observing. The kitchen windows here are fine at 120x or with smaller scopes 150x. Some of the other windows are limited to 75x to 90x.

A 120mm ED sounds good.

John Wall tested his optics from his bedroom window.

I think an astronomer called Candy discovered a comet while testing a telescope though his bedroom window.

George Alcock discovered a nova or comet or maybe both through his landing window using a binocular.
Not sure if it was his Russian 20x60 or an 80mm binocular.
He usually used a Schneider 25x105 with triplet objectives.
He discovered ten in all, visually.
He knew 30,000 stars by sight.
 
John Wall's dialyte refractor was a 30inch as I thought, not 32inch as described in an obituary.

It was I think a 30inch f/12 folded refractor.
Even so it was very large and the equal 5th largest refractor.
It was the largest refractor made by an individual.
The corrections were made far back in the optical train.

The APM binocular is 70mm not 75mm.
This would be nice.
The 120mm is a bit big for me nowadays, but I usually avoided very large binoculars. I think the largest I had was 100mm.
 
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