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Binomania review of Zeiss Harpia

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Old Tuesday 26th March 2019, 13:43   #1
binomania
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Binomania review of Zeiss Harpia

Hi to all from Italy.

I finally will publish my impressions regarding the Zeiss Harpia 95, including a comparison with ATX 95. I'll keep the instrument for a few months, so there will certainly be updates. Please, as usual, to use google translate.

Kind Regards!
Piergiovanni

https://www.binomania.it/recensione-...5-arma-letale/
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Old Tuesday 26th March 2019, 21:10   #2
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Piergiovanni,

The Zeiss Harpia does not have a zoom eyepiece but a variable focal length objective, which enables a constant Afov across the magnification range. AFIK the objective does not contain fluorite (Calcium fluoride crystal) but low dispersion glass, possibly containing fluoride ions.
According to Troubador's report, the exit pupil at 23x magnification is a mere 2,5 mm (and not 4,1 mm), which for many of us would be an unacceptable trade off for the wide Fov at the lower magnification, and would explain the dimmer view you experienced compared to the ATX 95.

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Old Wednesday 27th March 2019, 08:47   #3
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Originally Posted by Tringa45 View Post
Piergiovanni,

The Zeiss Harpia does not have a zoom eyepiece but a variable focal length objective, which enables a constant Afov across the magnification range. AFIK the objective does not contain fluorite (Calcium fluoride crystal) but low dispersion glass, possibly containing fluoride ions.
According to Troubador's report, the exit pupil at 23x magnification is a mere 2,5 mm (and not 4,1 mm), which for many of us would be an unacceptable trade off for the wide Fov at the lower magnification, and would explain the dimmer view you experienced compared to the ATX 95.

John

Hello John. Many thanks for the attention. Regarding the fixed eyepiece, I think there are translation problems. I'll try to write that part better. Sorry! Regarding the exit pupil it was my fault. You are right. I forgot to take the measure (Foolishly)
Today I will also measure my specimen. For the fluorite lens it is declared on the italian official website, is confirmed FL LENS "Vetro FL e altri tipi di vetro" means "FL Lens and other type of lenses" and some minutes ago I have just been confirmed by Zeiss Italia. So honestly I don't know what to say.
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Last edited by binomania : Wednesday 27th March 2019 at 10:13.
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Old Wednesday 27th March 2019, 15:57   #4
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Hello John. Many thanks for the attention. Regarding the fixed eyepiece, I think there are translation problems. I'll try to write that part better. Sorry! Regarding the exit pupil it was my fault. You are right. I forgot to take the measure (Foolishly)
Today I will also measure my specimen. For the fluorite lens it is declared on the italian official website, is confirmed FL LENS "Vetro FL e altri tipi di vetro" means "FL Lens and other type of lenses" and some minutes ago I have just been confirmed by Zeiss Italia. So honestly I don't know what to say.
Yes Piergiovanni there are indeed special FL lenses but these are glass doped with fluoride of the same kind as in the original FL binoculars although of a different grade. They are not crystal lenses such as are used by Kowa.

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Old Thursday 28th March 2019, 06:14   #5
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Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
Yes Piergiovanni there are indeed special FL lenses but these are glass doped with fluoride of the same kind as in the original FL binoculars although of a different grade. They are not crystal lenses such as are used by Kowa.

Lee
$

Hi thanks for the comments"! I' ve written to Zeiss Italy, yesterday evening, to have more information about this.
By the way "fluorite" on Kowa Sport Optics is not mineral, but an "artificial monocrystal".
I've a great Takahashi FS 128 with "real fluorite" and it has a very high contrast. Too bad that its processing was banned due to the presumed toxicity of the vapors emitted,
Please see my old box in Kowa 8.5x44 review (i've used google translate for brevity)



Mineral fluorite
Fluorite ore is a halide of the monometric group and has a hardness of 4
a specific weight: 3.1-3.2 and a refractive index: n = 1.433, it emits light when it is heated or exposed to ultraviolet radiation. It seems that its name may derive from two factors, primarily from the Latin fluere = merge (since it was used as a flux in metallurgy), It seems, however, that in the Middle Ages, English miners mentioned it as Flower "FLOWER" because of its beauty. Natural fluorite includes traces of rare earth elements that give the stone a purple or greenish color and cause, as anticipated, a fluorescence when subjected to heat or ultraviolet rays.

Synthetic fluorite by KOWA
Fluorite (crystal fluorite), used for the Kowa High Lander BL8J3 Large series and on TSN-883/884 riflescopes, is instead an artificial mono-crystal, for this reason, it does not contain impurities and does not emit fluorescence when heated or exposed with ultraviolet rays. For this reason the artificial fluorite is chemically stable, on the other hand it is more fragile than the mineral one and tends to scratch easily. For this reason, its processing is more difficult during the grinding and polishing phase, but it is possible to create large diameter lenses
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Old Thursday 28th March 2019, 08:08   #6
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Many thanks for the overview of Fluorite Piergiovanni!

Ciao bello

Lee
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Old Thursday 28th March 2019, 12:14   #7
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I belive the Calcium Fluoride (Fluorite) used by Kowa, Takahashi, Borg and some Canon photographic lenses is manufactured by Canon Optron. Here are a couple of links:

https://optron.canon/ja/fluorite/img...et_caf2_en.pdf
https://digiborg.wordpress.com/2019/...n-caf2-mgf2-1/

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Old Thursday 28th March 2019, 13:11   #8
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Kowa 88 and higlander 82(fluorite model) use artificial fluorite crytstal, so do Takahashi, Borg and some photographic lenses. Zeiss APQ used one fluorite lens, but no other in production product by Zeiss I know of uses fluorite.
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Old Thursday 28th March 2019, 21:39   #9
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Thanks for the review Piergiovanni.
As you mention, there still doesn't exist an astro ep adapter but you can verify if a 1,25" ep would reach focus by holding it in place. Can you do it please?
A Morpheus 6.5 and a 4.5mm comes to my mind...
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Old Friday 29th March 2019, 07:20   #10
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Originally Posted by range View Post
Kowa 88 and higlander 82(fluorite model) use artificial fluorite crytstal, so do Takahashi, Borg and some photographic lenses. Zeiss APQ used one fluorite lens, but no other in production product by Zeiss I know of uses fluorite.
Actually I believe some Zeiss microscopes use fluorite crystal lenses and Schott is able to grow these.


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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 08:11   #11
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Thanks for the review Piergiovanni.
As you mention, there still doesn't exist an astro ep adapter but you can verify if a 1,25" ep would reach focus by holding it in place. Can you do it please?
A Morpheus 6.5 and a 4.5mm comes to my mind...
In my community, someone has already made an 1.25 adapter.
They tested quite a lot eps, seems it's able to reach focus on most of them including HFW 12.5mm, Docter UWA, Pentax XW 20, Nikon SW 17.5, Morpheus 6.5, Vixen HR 3.4, XWA 9mm 100, etc.
They did a quite extensive review vs ATX 95. The article is here:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/xEsClpbmTXXZFvencfnGDA
It's written in Chinese, please use a tranlator.
But I can tell you the conclusion: The original eyepiece does not live up to the objective. Change it will change the whole story.
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Last edited by range : Saturday 30th March 2019 at 09:05.
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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 08:14   #12
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Actually I believe some Zeiss microscopes use fluorite crystal lenses and Schott is able to grow these.


Lee
Sorry I do not count microscopes in, I know nothing about them.
And yes, Schott makes them.
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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 14:03   #13
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Originally Posted by range View Post
In my community, someone has already made an 1.25 adapter.
They tested quite a lot eps, seems it's able to reach focus on most of them including HFW 12.5mm, Docter UWA, Pentax XW 20, Nikon SW 17.5, Morpheus 6.5, Vixen HR 3.4, XWA 9mm 100, etc.
They did a quite extensive review vs ATX 95. The article is here:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/xEsClpbmTXXZFvencfnGDA
It's written in Chinese, please use a tranlator.
But I can tell you the conclusion: The original eyepiece does not live up to the objective. Change it will change the whole story.
Many thanks!!!...
So Zeiss became more interesting and it's a shame there is no straight view versions...
I don't understand why Zeiss still doesn't sell astro 1.25" adapters since would increase their sales potential - they can always only sell the scopes with the original ep...
The adapter mentioned in the article is available to purchase on the web?
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Old Saturday 30th March 2019, 22:48   #14
range
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Originally Posted by DRodrigues View Post
Many thanks!!!...
So Zeiss became more interesting and it's a shame there is no straight view versions...
I don't understand why Zeiss still doesn't sell astro 1.25" adapters since would increase their sales potential - they can always only sell the scopes with the original ep...
The adapter mentioned in the article is available to purchase on the web?
The eyepiece is the culprit here. And since this is an objective variable system, there is even more reason to design an adapter to make full use of the numerous set focal length eyepieces.
As to the diy adapter, I'm afraid no at the moment, it's intended for personal use only.
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Old Monday 1st April 2019, 22:55   #15
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The eyepiece is the culprit here. And since this is an objective variable system, there is even more reason to design an adapter to make full use of the numerous set focal length eyepieces.
As to the diy adapter, I'm afraid no at the moment, it's intended for personal use only.
Thanks again. Maybe Baader will produce such adapter - their adapter for using 1,25" astro eps on the Diascope was much better then the Zeiss...

If I understood well, from the Google translation (doesn't work as good with Chinese as with other languages...), the field stop available in the scope is 20mm which means that lower mags can be used also and that is interesting for some birders, although I'm within the other group that prefer higher mags...
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Old Tuesday 2nd April 2019, 03:38   #16
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If I understood well, from the Google translation (doesn't work as good with Chinese as with other languages...), the field stop available in the scope is 20mm which means that lower mags can be used also and that is interesting for some birders, although I'm within the other group that prefer higher mags...
Correct.
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Old Wednesday 3rd April 2019, 05:05   #17
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Originally Posted by Tringa45 View Post
I belive the Calcium Fluoride (Fluorite) used by Kowa, Takahashi, Borg and some Canon photographic lenses is manufactured by Canon Optron. Here are a couple of links:

https://optron.canon/ja/fluorite/img...et_caf2_en.pdf
https://digiborg.wordpress.com/2019/...n-caf2-mgf2-1/

John
Regarding Takahashi and fluorite.. In the 90's Takahashi produced telescopes with mineral fluorite, for example the FC series and the subsequent FS. I own a copy of the FS 128 which has a magnificent contrast.

For what concernsthe adapter i am using an old "Swarovsky adapter":-)
with a little tape as a "thickness".
I'll test some astronomicale eyepieces in the next few weeks. Now it's raining after weeks of drought
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Old Sunday 18th August 2019, 08:22   #18
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Originally Posted by binomania View Post
Hi to all from Italy.

I finally will publish my impressions regarding the Zeiss Harpia 95, including a comparison with ATX 95. I'll keep the instrument for a few months, so there will certainly be updates. Please, as usual, to use google translate.

Kind Regards!
Piergiovanni

https://www.binomania.it/recensione-...5-arma-letale/
Quote:
Originally Posted by range View Post
In my community, someone has already made an 1.25 adapter.
They tested quite a lot eps, seems it's able to reach focus on most of them including HFW 12.5mm, Docter UWA, Pentax XW 20, Nikon SW 17.5, Morpheus 6.5, Vixen HR 3.4, XWA 9mm 100, etc.
They did a quite extensive review vs ATX 95. The article is here:
https://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/xEsClpbmTXXZFvencfnGDA
It's written in Chinese, please use a tranlator.
But I can tell you the conclusion: The original eyepiece does not live up to the objective. Change it will change the whole story.
Interesting reviews, and conclusions...

Would be interesting to hear more about how the Harpia performs in dull and grey light, for sea bird watching etc. Can it compete with the Swaro 95mm in those conditions?

What would the downsides with the 85mm Harpia version be? I only find positives for the smaller model, such as lower weight and easier to balance/more stable on tripod.

5x extra mag for the 95mm version vs a larger FOV for the 85mm version does not seem much. Also the 85mm has 1 meter shorter close focus.

F-stops are very similar f5.5 (95mm) vs f5.7 (85mm). Same level of aberration seems likely.

Any difference in brightness at highest mag must be impossible to see as well. Exit pupils are 1.31 and 1.34mm.

So why buy even bother to buy the 95mm version if you can't get more than 70x mag?! As no adapter or TC:s are available for consumers.
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