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New Forest Goshawks - UK

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Old Sunday 6th October 2019, 09:03   #1
andyadcock
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New Forest Goshawks - UK

A rare, positive report for a UK raptor.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-eng...the-new-forest
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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 07:16   #2
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Great but now for a bit of balance they should report on the persecution of birds of prey - maybe they could use CountryFile for that...

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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 07:58   #3
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Yes, its nice that they are solid in the New Forest, but I live at the other end of the county and they haven't managed to spread up here....

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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 11:51   #4
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Originally Posted by rollingthunder View Post
Great but now for a bit of balance they should report on the persecution of birds of prey - maybe they could use CountryFile for that...

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BBC won't do that they're the tory mouthpiece.
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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 12:59   #5
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Really?

If anything they are Labour Lefty shills imo...

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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 13:01   #6
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There has been speculation in the past that Goshawks occasionally prey on Honey Buzzards, especially juveniles? this may be of relevance in the NF ........... anyone know of any UK or overseas research on this?
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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 13:52   #7
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There has been speculation in the past that Goshawks occasionally prey on Honey Buzzards, especially juveniles? this may be of relevance in the NF ........... anyone know of any UK or overseas research on this?
Goshawks are found right across Eurasia, so are Honey Buzzards. Their interactions are insignificant globally. Goshawks most likely do take juvenile Honey Buzzards in the New Forest and elsewhere but so what?

Humans trying to impose their own concepts of right and wrong on ecosystems has a bad track record. "Relevance" in this case is a bad word, unless you can give it some different spin from what I am picking up.

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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 14:14   #8
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Not wishing to start an argument,but arn't the new forest goshawks derived initially from escaped falconers birds?
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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 16:28   #9
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Goshawks are found right across Eurasia, so are Honey Buzzards. Their interactions are insignificant globally. Goshawks most likely do take juvenile Honey Buzzards in the New Forest and elsewhere but so what?

Humans trying to impose their own concepts of right and wrong on ecosystems has a bad track record. "Relevance" in this case is a bad word, unless you can give it some different spin from what I am picking up.

John
I think the important point to remember is that humans might unwittingly shape habitats in ways that favour one species or another. So that's another variable to account for, in addition to naturally occurring predation, climate changes, deliberate persecution etc.
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Old Monday 7th October 2019, 16:59   #10
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I think the important point to remember is that humans might unwittingly shape habitats in ways that favour one species or another. So that's another variable to account for, in addition to naturally occurring predation, climate changes, deliberate persecution etc.
I don't doubt that. The New Forest has been manicured for over a thousand years as the King's deer forest, National Park etc and it goes on today with slow removal of conifer plantations, gorse management in open areas and so on. Not to mention daftness like allowing domestic pigs into the forest to eat the acorns that the domestic ponies make themselves ill with, instead of releasing surplus Wild Boar from e.g. Forest of Dean to do the same thing, enhance biodiversity, rewild, and control loose tourists, cyclists and dogs.

Still doesn't make human interference by "management" of Goshawks to enable Honey Buzzards in a fringe area appropriate. Which is the only reason one could say Goshawk effects on Honey Buzzards were "relevant".

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Old Tuesday 8th October 2019, 05:42   #11
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[quote=Farnboro John;3904370]I don't doubt that. The New Forest has been manicured for over a thousand years as the King's deer forest, National Park etc and it goes on today with slow removal of conifer plantations, gorse management in open areas and so on. Not to mention daftness like allowing domestic pigs into the forest to eat the acorns that the domestic ponies make themselves ill with, instead of releasing surplus Wild Boar from e.g. Forest of Dean to do the same thing, enhance biodiversity, rewild, and control loose tourists, cyclists and dogs.


And don't forget, the pigs that are released to eat the acorns have to have rings in their noses to stop them digging up and 'damaging' the grassland for the grazing livestock. Commoners face fines and the loss of the right to let pigs out if they don't comply. Just another way in which the Forest is 'shaped' by man, but not in a way that's helpful to biodiversity or proper woodland ecology.
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Old Tuesday 8th October 2019, 07:14   #12
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[quote=WalterRayle;3904501]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farnboro John View Post

And don't forget, the pigs that are released to eat the acorns have to have rings in their noses to stop them digging up and 'damaging' the grassland for the grazing livestock. Commoners face fines and the loss of the right to let pigs out if they don't comply. Just another way in which the Forest is 'shaped' by man, but not in a way that's helpful to biodiversity or proper woodland ecology.

The grazed areas are ideal for Autumn Ladies Tresses!

One thing I have discovered since living near the New Forest, is just how many species have an English stronghold there. Honey Buzzard, Goshawk, Hobby, wintering Great Grey Shrike and Hen Harrier, Wood Warbler, Dartford Warbler, Woodlark, Firecrest, Nightjar, Hawfinch, Lesser Spotted Woodpecker, Smooth Snake, Heath Grasshopper, Southern Damselfly, Barbastelle, and Bechstein's Bat, Bog Orchid, Lesser Butterfly Orchid, along with plenty of other flowers and fungi.
breeding Curlew and Snipe.

Plus it copes with hundreds of dog walkers, cycle races, livestock, tourists.

That's pretty good for somewhere that isn't solely a nature reserve. In fact it is probably better than the majority of "Nature reserves" in England, especially if you include the New Forest Borough "coast", with Keyhaven, Pennington, Lepe and Calshot.

I believe the balance is pretty good. But it's taken a few years to work out where best to avoid the masses of picnickers, cyclists, dog walkers, pigs!, and don't get me started on the Doggers.. WTF is that about!

I know a few birders look at the New Forest and think, Urrgh, but I don't get why. Maybe they have been unlucky and visited the more extreme grazing areas, or maybe something I don't understand / don't see.
I've seen a lot worse in terms of artificial / manicured habitats for sure!
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Last edited by peter.jones : Tuesday 8th October 2019 at 07:43.
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Old Tuesday 8th October 2019, 08:59   #13
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The New Forest’ geographical proximity to the nearby Continental landmass is a big factor. The soils and local climate reflect adjacent conditions to an extent. The area would have been relatively quickly recolonised by spp further South that had been ticking over in their Mediterranean refugia. Indeed a lot of southern and Western coastal habitat remained an ice-free ribbon of land, to a varying width, allowing plants from Iberia to ‘leapfrog’ over what is now the Bay of Biscay to leave elements of the ‘Lusitianian’ flora that is with us until this day A species not mentioned is the New Forest Cicada in its only UK locale iirc...

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