Zeiss (USA) service problems (2 Viewers)

tenex · Aug 9, 2019

Following up on my comments in an earlier thread ("Well Done Zeiss")...

Zeiss USA told me P* prisms were no longer available for my old 8x30 B Dialyt. They actually are, in Germany (as Lee found out), but would cost E 500+ to install, which doesn't seem a worthwhile investment. (I don't care to get into whether that's reasonable again, but will note that Swarovski and Leica have both been reported to perform similar upgrades at no additional cost.)

They told me it would take 1-3 weeks to simply fix the play and stiffness in the focus wheel. It's been 3 weeks, so I called to check and was told they have a backlog, the repair has not yet been done, and they have no idea when it may be.

I asked to be notified when the return shipment eventually occurred, and was told that might or might not happen.

Caveat emptor.

jring · Aug 9, 2019

And I went to the local Chevy dealer and asked if they could install an updated engine available 10 years after my ancient Vette was bought - for free of course. They told me no, we don't have engines, how could they? They sure have some to honor the lifetime warranty they promised. I also heard GM and Ford all do this...

Joachim, just a little bit astonished...

Sebzwo · Aug 10, 2019

This attitude to expect endless service for free for any oldtimer parts is exactly what makes the traditional brands so expensive that companies retreat from markets or raise their prices beyond normal customers possibilities.

You want 500 bugs prisms for free? And 3 weeks during summer vacations is a wait too long? Seriously? You must be the emperor of Colorado for sure.
What happened to your dialyt that it needs a repair like that?

Troubador · Aug 10, 2019

Sounds like the new service centre in Kentucky is having some teething troubles.

Lee

Swissboy · Aug 10, 2019

Troubador said:
Sounds like the new service centre in Kentucky is having some teething troubles.

Lee

With customers like Tenex, that would be small wonder, I'm afraid. It's a different story to have lifetime warranty honored or to expect free updates. So they'll have to first figure out just how far they can reasonably go, I guess. And with such customers they may want to make sure every step they take will be thoroughly documented as an insurance against further claims. That all costs time and resources. So some of the delays may well be "self-inflicted" in a way.

Troubador · Aug 10, 2019

With the words 'teething troubles' I wasn't so much thinking of the free P* prisms (which is an unrealistic expectation in my view, back when these Dialyts were produced and sold, today's kinds of warranties and customer service had not been thought of) but of the usual problems when you close one facility and open another. Not only do you lose staff, you need to recruit and folks with the right skills are not always available from day one. Not being able to agree to definitely advise a customer of the despatch of his binos sounds like Tenex was speaking to the wrong person and thats not his fault.

Lee

tenex · Aug 10, 2019

Everyone,

As I said in the OP, there's no point getting into the reasonableness of expectations here again, so kindly don't! There's a reason I started a new thread. Been through that. Found it an annoying waste of time. Analogies with cars don't help. I mentioned the prism business again to show that one problem here is that people at Zeiss USA didn't know that P* prisms were still available, as they should have (or at least been able to find out when I asked). Beyond that, I'm reporting that what some manufacturers have done for (some of?) their customers, Zeiss is not doing (for me). That's equally useful information. Do you have any to contribute yourselves, positive or negative?

Troubador,

Yes, it seems Zeiss USA service is having problems. That was the point, in fact the title, of my post. Thank you for noticing.

Troubador · Aug 10, 2019

tenex said:
Everyone,

Troubador,

Yes, it seems Zeiss USA service is having problems. That was the point, in fact the title, of my post. Thank you for noticing.

What you left out was the fact that the service centre in Kentucky is brand new, Zeiss USA Customer Service having closed in NY and a new CS Centre set up in co-operation with Zeiss Vision. It is not uncommon for new facililties to have some hitches in achieving their desired levels of customer service, hence my use of the term 'teething troubles' which I notice you scrupulously ignored.

Lee

tenex · Aug 10, 2019

Troubador said:
What you left out was the fact that the service centre in Kentucky is brand new, Zeiss USA Customer Service having closed in NY and a new CS Centre set up in co-operation with Zeiss Vision. It is not uncommon for new facililties to have some hitches in achieving their desired levels of customer service, hence my use of the term 'teething troubles' which I notice you scrupulously ignored.

That is also a useful piece of infomation, and your contribution here. I'm not ignoring it. Do you think I have to say that I accept it as an excuse?

Patudo · Aug 10, 2019

I had to wait months for my Zeiss West 10x50 to come back. Part of the reason was that spares were unobtainium and Gary had to take extreme care disassembling it. It was undeniably frustrating at times, but the binocular couldn't be used without a service thanks to severe internal haze and I now have something that functions pretty much as new. I've tried both alongside each other, and in sharpness and overall image quality, it's the equal of the P model 10x40 Dialyt from maybe 20 years later. Now if I could only insist that Zeiss get my lenses and prisms multi-coated...

We're fortunate that most people knowledgeable in working on Zeiss binoculars here in the UK are probably familiar with the Dialyt series - if I sent a binocular of that vintage to a new operation such as the one the OP used, I'd not be surprised if it had to be sent back to Germany to be dealt with.

Troubador · Aug 10, 2019

tenex said:
That is also a useful piece of infomation, and your contribution here. I'm not ignoring it. Do you think I have to say that I accept it as an excuse?

Absolutely not Tenex but it is not a case of excusing anything, it is a case of understanding.

If I didn't feel your situation needed support I wouldn't have contacted Zeiss Germany on your behalf and nor would the last sentence of my post 6 read as it does if I felt nothing had gone amiss with the service you received. But the realities of moving a business way across the USA from NY with the likely loss of experienced staff and the recruitment of new people mean that perfect service is unlikely for a period.

One thing sticks in my mind and that is that while repair completion dates can be missed for many reasons, and some of these make it difficult to provide a new reliable completion date, failing to agree to advise a customer of the dispatch of their bino is beyond dumb.

Lee

dries1 · Aug 11, 2019

Perhaps before they open a new center for service/repair, they should have all the staff/equipment in place...but I understand the bean counters. Frankly, If I could, I would send my Zeiss directly to Europe for repair/service, (most of the time they go there anyway esp. for focus and other complex issues.)

As a side note, hunting season here in the US is around the corner, service is likely inundated with glass, I mostly send mine in after the end of the season, (the early part of the year).

Andy W.

Pinewood · Aug 11, 2019

Hello,

As I recall, Zeiss USA customer service was in Virginia. I think the move to New York may have been only a few years, ago. Now they have moved to Kentucky. Zeiss has been trying to match that Austrian manufacturer in customer service, so glitches in setting up a new facility, if that is the problem, are rather detrimental to the firm.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

tenex · Aug 11, 2019

Patudo said:
I had to wait months for my Zeiss West 10x50 to come back. Part of the reason was that spares were unobtainium and Gary had to take extreme care disassembling it. It was undeniably frustrating at times, but the binocular couldn't be used without a service thanks to severe internal haze and I now have something that functions pretty much as new. I've tried both alongside each other, and in sharpness and overall image quality, it's the equal of the P model 10x40 Dialyt from maybe 20 years later. Now if I could only insist that Zeiss get my lenses and prisms multi-coated...

We're fortunate that most people knowledgeable in working on Zeiss binoculars here in the UK are probably familiar with the Dialyt series - if I sent a binocular of that vintage to a new operation such as the one the OP used, I'd not be surprised if it had to be sent back to Germany to be dealt with.

That 10x50 is a beautiful glass. We had one several decades ago. As I recall it had quite a wide field, though not much eye relief? The difference is that there actually was a P* version of my Dialyt, in fact there already was when I was sold mine, whereas your 10x50 never got those updated coatings. Or did it finally, in the special reissue in the 1980s?

I didn't know Zeiss USA was rearranging their service operation when I sent in my Dialyt. (I also don't know, and no one has said here, whether that's actually an excuse, i.e. they did better before this.) They didn't contact Zeiss Germany, or offer to send it back there; I'm sure that would have worked better. Although frankly if it isn't going to get P* prisms, I won't be seriously using it. It may remain a car/office/loaner. Enjoy your 10x50!
.

NDhunter · Aug 12, 2019

tenex:

I think you are confusing things a bit. The 10x50 Zeiss is a porro prism binocular, only roof prism
types like the dialyt can make use of P, or phase coatings.

The 10x50 may well have the newer T*, fully multicoated lenses, that often reflect red in Zeiss binoculars.

So, just relax and enjoy your dialyt, they are a nice binocular.

Jerry

Troubador · Aug 12, 2019

Pinewood said:
Hello,

As I recall, Zeiss USA customer service was in Virginia. I think the move to New York may have been only a few years, ago. Now they have moved to Kentucky. Zeiss has been trying to match that Austrian manufacturer in customer service, so glitches in setting up a new facility, if that is the problem, are rather detrimental to the firm.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

Arthur, you are absolutely correct with the history and for sure it seems to me that investment in the new facility in Kentucky is a significant investment by Zeiss.

Lee

Troubador · Aug 12, 2019

Visit https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=379581&page=2 post 26 for details of a different experience.

Lee

tenex · Aug 12, 2019

NDhunter said:
tenex:I think you are confusing things a bit. The 10x50 Zeiss is a porro prism binocular...

I know that. As I said, we once had one! So of course by "those updated coatings" I was referring to the transmission multicoating that Patudo mentioned, that the 10x50 never got. (Unless the 1980s commemorative reissue did. I've never seen one of those.)

tenex · Aug 24, 2019

It's back...

Well, the Dialyt reappeared on my porch yesterday, sure enough without any warning. Accounting for shipping, the repair must have taken 4 weeks (the estimate was 1-3). The invoice states it got new rubber eyecups, and the focus wheel serviced to work better. (It still has an odd combination of stiffness and play compared to modern focusers, but has improved.) Without phase coatings, it's still visibly inferior even to slightly later binos like my Leica BN, especially for long distance detail.

The (new) bad news is, the diopter is now far off kilter. It has to be turned nearly all the way to "-" to achieve a neutral setting, so the entire "-" range of adjustment has been lost. This can be verified not only in use, but by looking at the objectives, which move on this model. Now they're visibly offset (right one further in) with the wheel at 0, equally positioned when it's turned almost all the way toward "-".

Very frustrating. I can still use it (barely) since my own diopter setting ranges from 0 to just slightly "-", so I won't go to the trouble or expense to ship it back a second time for them to fix this mistake. Car bino indeed.

If you're considering Zeiss USA service, you might want to think twice, at least for now. (It's been suggested this might be a temporary problem, but I have no way of knowing that, or for how long.)

NDhunter · Aug 24, 2019

tenex:

How do you know where this binocular was serviced? Was it sent to Germany or ?

Your frustration with service with Zeiss is well noted, so tell us more about the details.

A while back I spoke to the head of Zeiss USA service, and he said it will be a while before they get new
people hired for service in the new location.

One thing I do know, they do not care much about working on the dialyt models, I have had similar
poor service experience. Zeiss is like some other companies, rather than hire and train service people,
they would rather just provide a replacement, such as a Conquest for a dialyt that does not need
much more than a little work.

Some of us, just want the binocular fixed.....:smoke:

Jerry

Zeiss (USA) service problems (2 Viewers)

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